EPTGreat play by both players, Nony imo took advantage of Idra's safe macro style play (definitely not saying its a bad thing), and in some cases seemingly lucky (void rays weren't scouted even though I was yelling at that ovie to move a little to the right) came out on top! Thanks to Gosu coaching for that and hope there are more to come.
Liquid'Tyler vs. IdrA Gosucoaching.com Showmatch - Page 39
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NET
United States703 Posts
Great play by both players, Nony imo took advantage of Idra's safe macro style play (definitely not saying its a bad thing), and in some cases seemingly lucky (void rays weren't scouted even though I was yelling at that ovie to move a little to the right) came out on top! Thanks to Gosu coaching for that and hope there are more to come. | ||
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stratman
Canada110 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
One of the casters mentioned that Idra thinks forcefields are imbalanced because there is nothing to deal with them. How about you upgrade burrow and tunneling ? What kind of zerg player doesn't get that these days? Is it cheaper to let a few to half of your roaches just get trapped while you try and outmicro the forcefields and then become forced to engage? Do you think you will have too few units teching that stuff too fast? 2 important factors: If the guy is 4 gate all in or whatever, he will not have obs. Regeneration is super effective as well as the dodging. If the guy is 2-3 gate robo with ob, then he will have less stalkers and gate units in the first place. Tunnelling and Burrow are a MUST. Idra is only shown us he's above average at ZvT. In every other matchup versus upper tier players he just gets rolled. These games were so one sided and lame to watch. | ||
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Doraemon.doraemon
United States335 Posts
On November 03 2010 19:29 CharlieMurphy wrote: As I always say, idra is so overrated. Look at this poor display of ZvP. Nony simply dismantled idra's predictable macro play and poor scouting/deciphering. One of the casters mentioned that Idra thinks forcefields are imbalanced because there is nothing to deal with them. How about you upgrade burrow and tunneling ? What kind of zerg player doesn't get that these days? Is it cheaper to let a few to half of your roaches just get trapped while you try and outmicro the forcefields and then become forced to engage? Do you think you will have too few units teching that stuff too fast? 2 important factors: If the guy is 4 gate all in or whatever, he will not have obs. Regeneration is super effective as well as the dodging. If the guy is 2-3 gate robo with ob, then he will have less stalkers and gate units in the first place. Tunnelling and Burrow are a MUST. Idra is only shown us he's above average at ZvT. In every other matchup versus upper tier players he just gets rolled. These games were so one sided and lame to watch. if the most accomplished foreigner is overrated then who isn't sigh... such harsh judgment from 1 showmatch lol... even the fruitdealer lost like a newb cuz he didn't make units in time... people are so mean | ||
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Laggy
United States385 Posts
On November 03 2010 19:29 CharlieMurphy wrote: As I always say, idra is so overrated. Look at this poor display of ZvP. Nony simply dismantled idra's predictable macro play and poor scouting/deciphering. One of the casters mentioned that Idra thinks forcefields are imbalanced because there is nothing to deal with them. How about you upgrade burrow and tunneling ? What kind of zerg player doesn't get that these days? Is it cheaper to let a few to half of your roaches just get trapped while you try and outmicro the forcefields and then become forced to engage? Do you think you will have too few units teching that stuff too fast? 2 important factors: If the guy is 4 gate all in or whatever, he will not have obs. Regeneration is super effective as well as the dodging. If the guy is 2-3 gate robo with ob, then he will have less stalkers and gate units in the first place. Tunnelling and Burrow are a MUST. Idra is only shown us he's above average at ZvT. In every other matchup versus upper tier players he just gets rolled. These games were so one sided and lame to watch. Have you seen IdrA's U.S ladder results? He has like 60 losses and 160 or so wins. I highly doubt he is Overrated. Quite frankly I think that you just don't like him or how he BMs players so you call him overrated. Ro34 in GSL1 16 in GSL2 winner of KoTB MLG 1st place. I don't know man but I wouldn't call that overrated, there are times when players have bad days. Also he is playing with a huge amount of lag I bet he lives in korea playing games on the other side of the earth. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
he was always very greedy in his macro game and i also believe burrow and/or hydras would have made a diference! Altho tyler played great! IdrA will probable win @ DC tho | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On November 03 2010 19:42 Laggy wrote: Have you seen IdrA's U.S ladder results? He has like 60 losses and 160 or so wins. I highly doubt he is Overrated. Quite frankly I think that you just don't like him or how he BMs players so you call him overrated. Ro34 in GSL1 16 in GSL2 winner of KoTB MLG 1st place. I don't know man but I wouldn't call that overrated, there are times when players have bad days. Also he is playing with a huge amount of lag I bet he lives in korea playing games on the other side of the earth. Idra was playing in America, as he's here now for MLG Dallas. The sheer number of Idra fans blaming nonexistant lag for his piss poor performance is quite hilarious, though. Anyway... are you seriously trying to use ladder results to prove that someone is or isn't overrated? That's the most laughable concept I've entertained in a while, and I frequent forums with Idra fans. Idra is overrated; just look at the polls for this match or the TL poll on the right sidebar showing that the majority of users on this forum believe him to be a better player than he truly is. Statistically and by tournament performance, Idra may be the King of Foreigners, but in the wider scope of the Starcraft scene, it means absolutely nothing. Idra is a mechanical player without any natural talent or gamesense who thrives in lesser environments by the practice he puts in. To hype him to any level beyond that is a complete mischaracterization caused by undue fanboyism. | ||
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kariido
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
On November 03 2010 18:49 kuresuti wrote: I agree. Idra just doesn't seem to get better, same in Broodwar after he went to Korea. I remember reading one of his interviews and he mentioned that the training hours at CJ were cumbersome and overbearing, it was part of the reason that he left CJ. Now he trains by himself on the ladder on his own time. The ladder obviously doesn't present pros/proplayers with the same level of competition or training than a select group or team can provide, also with lax training hours who knows how much he really puts in? He obviously has love for the game and I like him as a player, he has character and a distinct style of play but maybe he isn't pursuing SC2 as a progamer, as his full-time job. I don't mean to judge him or ridicule him, I'm just being honest here. PS. I voted for Idra to go furthest in GSL2  | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On November 03 2010 19:57 kariido wrote: I remember reading one of his interviews and he mentioned that the training hours at CJ were cumbersome and overbearing, it was part of the reason that he left CJ. Now he trains by himself on the ladder on his own time. The ladder obviously doesn't present pros/proplayers with the same level of competition or training than a select group or team can provide, also with lax training hours who knows how much he really puts in? He obviously has love for the game and I like him as a player, he has character and a distinct style of play but maybe he isn't pursuing SC2 as a progamer, as his full-time job. I don't mean to judge him or ridicule him, I'm just being honest here. PS. I voted for Idra to go furthest in GSL2 haha this post makes a lot more sense if you were talking about Nony instead | ||
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Hirnfrost
Germany938 Posts
 not entertaining at all anyway gg tyler! | ||
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Punkstar
Slovakia522 Posts
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
Idra is allways the underdog against nony. he respects him a lot! | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On November 03 2010 19:29 CharlieMurphy wrote: As I always say, idra is so overrated. Look at this poor display of ZvP. Nony simply dismantled idra's predictable macro play and poor scouting/deciphering. One of the casters mentioned that Idra thinks forcefields are imbalanced because there is nothing to deal with them. How about you upgrade burrow and tunneling ? What kind of zerg player doesn't get that these days? Is it cheaper to let a few to half of your roaches just get trapped while you try and outmicro the forcefields and then become forced to engage? Do you think you will have too few units teching that stuff too fast? 2 important factors: If the guy is 4 gate all in or whatever, he will not have obs. Regeneration is super effective as well as the dodging. If the guy is 2-3 gate robo with ob, then he will have less stalkers and gate units in the first place. Tunnelling and Burrow are a MUST. Idra is only shown us he's above average at ZvT. In every other matchup versus upper tier players he just gets rolled. These games were so one sided and lame to watch. Clueless guy is clueless. Tunneling and burrow is a big investment. 350/350, just when lair finishes is HUGE, considering a roach is just 25 gas. Also, they take very long to complete. You need speed for your roaches to be able to attack. Roaches with speed are faster than stalkers, and can kite zlots all day. That is the first upgrade you need. You can't research tunneling claws while upgrading speed. Considering the attack begins when lair just completes, you can't support, and most importantly, you don't have the time. On November 03 2010 19:55 Kraznaya wrote: Idra was playing in America, as he's here now for MLG Dallas. The sheer number of Idra fans blaming nonexistant lag for his piss poor performance is quite hilarious, though. Anyway... are you seriously trying to use ladder results to prove that someone is or isn't overrated? That's the most laughable concept I've entertained in a while, and I frequent forums with Idra fans. Idra is overrated; just look at the polls for this match or the TL poll on the right sidebar showing that the majority of users on this forum believe him to be a better player than he truly is. Statistically and by tournament performance, Idra may be the King of Foreigners, but in the wider scope of the Starcraft scene, it means absolutely nothing. Idra is a mechanical player without any natural talent or gamesense who thrives in lesser environments by the practice he puts in. To hype him to any level beyond that is a complete mischaracterization caused by undue fanboyism. This is bullshit. Why is Idra overrated? Just because he hasn't won the GSL twice? First let me get this straight, Idra is very good. Everyone that denies that has the be a hater. He has won almost every foreigner tournament, so it's stupid to even begin about ladder. He is also the only foreigner to actually do something in the GSL. Yeah sure, he didn't win the GSL, but he is one of the few top players that participated in both tournaments, and advanced a few rounds. Even the Fruitdealer went out early, tester didn't qualify, ogstop, clide, maka, there are so many upsets. These things happen. And let's not forget how we went out. To say he means nothing in the starcraft, just because he lost 1 showmatch to another extremelty talented player is stupid. You shouldn't use 1 showmatch to determine if Idra is good. Get that list of the things he participated in and how far he went in them, that will assure you that Idra is a damn good player. | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
If someone has beaten the emperor on a vote count, that someone is overrated .. NONY FTW + Show Spoiler + not to degrade idra's skill though .. he's good but people need to stop being a blind fan boy oh forgot to mention this .. was a great read back then lololol http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88342 | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On November 03 2010 21:11 Brutus wrote: This is bullshit. Why is Idra overrated? Just because he hasn't won the GSL twice? First let me get this straight, Idra is very good. Everyone that denies that has the be a hater. He has won almost every foreigner tournament, so it's stupid to even begin about ladder. He is also the only foreigner to actually do something in the GSL. Yeah sure, he didn't win the GSL, but he is one of the few top players that participated in both tournaments, and advanced a few rounds. Even the Fruitdealer went out early, tester didn't qualify, ogstop, clide, maka, there are so many upsets. These things happen. And let's not forget how we went out. To say he means nothing in the starcraft, just because he lost 1 showmatch to another extremelty talented player is stupid. You shouldn't use 1 showmatch to determine if Idra is good. Get that list of the things he participated in and how far he went in them, that will assure you that Idra is a damn good player. Yes, he's rated higher than he should be by the foreigner community here, which apparently expected him to be better than BoxeR and Nada. Rating Idra higher than BoxeR or Nada is overrating him in ridiculous terms, I don't see how this point is debatable at all. Sure, Idra has sustained himself to mediocre showings in both GSL tournaments because of his efficient macro style backed by his solid handling of mechanics, but that doesn't mean Idra will ever amount of anything. Idra isn't a "damn good player" unless you're judging him on relative terms, against people who practice much less than him and who have dedicated much less time than him. Today, Nony showed us again that Idra severely lacks talent and game sense, and what he makes up for in talent with raw mechanical dedication can't sustain him forever. I expect his finish in this past GSL to be his high water mark; soon, Idra will be competing against Koreans who will finally have put as much time into the game as him (keep in mind he's one of the few competing in the GSL who has played since beta started), who will be able to match his mindless dedication to practice and mechanics (which foreigners like Nony cannot keep up with) with actual talent, which Idra has painfully reminded us he lacks over the course of his Starcraft career. And at that point, I expect hilarity to ensue. It's a shame that actually talented foreigners who can think like Nony and White-Ra have lives outside Starcraft and are unwilling to dedicate themselves fully to the just playing the game, but maybe that's just a side effect of having a brain. Having a life. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On November 03 2010 17:24 adeezy wrote: Sigh. Idras performance has been underwhelming lately( well mlg dc was good but the matches were too one sided, and not entertaining).. The poll had idra leading to go the furthest in gsl but now we see that there are many gaps in his play. He may be he strongest foreigner but I also feel that he is over rated along with TLO. They may be better than everyone else that appears at mlg but they are obviously a level or so below the gsl competitors. Idra gets owned by zenio but zenio gets owned by nestea. People say the gsl is lackluster but if the people who win mlg and such can not hang with the gsl competitors (loner nexgenius and more). It can only mean how big the skill gap might be. Ok I gonna respond to this but iam highly aware of this might be a trollpost. First of all it is not entirely clear that Idra is the strongest foreigner overall. There are alot of players who are capable of beating him in a long series. tyler just recently showed this. There are not many, but they exist. Then you have a major missconception about skill "levels". If someone beats you, and this guy is beaten by another guy, then this doesnt mean that the other guy automatically is better than you. Also only because Idra and TLO did not advance to the finals, this doesnt mean that they are "below the gsl competitors". they are the very gsl competitors themselves, they are feared and respected. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
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