EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 254
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 17 2014 01:51 SatedSC2 wrote: I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. That it hits before detection with an SCV pull makes it sound very all-in, so wouldn't abandoning the natural and using Forcefields to prevent them getting up the ramp be the best option? Do you perhaps have a replay? It hits before detection with a couple of SCVs and marines and before detection. By the time it hit, I had 1 Stalker, 1 Msc, an expansion, and my sentry was building. I imagine it's pretty allin but then again I'm not quite sure what to do about it. Lost to this 3 times in a row yesterday. | ||
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SonGoku
Germany152 Posts
My mainrace is terran, top 5 dia last season, So it should be something that is viable in high dia/low-mid master. My favorite protoss player are: (I like to take bos from player I like a lot, even if others may have a "better" bo) MC Sos Rain BOs for every MU needed, thanks for your help!  | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 17 2014 04:45 SonGoku wrote: Hey guys, Iam offracing a bit protoss every now and then and I wonder if you have some decent Build orders from pros I could practice? My mainrace is terran (top 5 dia last season), my favorite protoss gamer are: MC Sos Rain BOs for every MU needed, thanks for your help! See Page 1. This is generally not the right place to ask for build orders unless you have a very specific question. | ||
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SonGoku
Germany152 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 17 2014 04:51 SonGoku wrote: Well, even on page 1 they are asking about build orders but arent they a little outdatet? They´re like >1 year old Some of them, a little. We're working on updating the OP. If you want some quick builds, I suggest looking at the Recommended Threads. Otherwise, search "SC2 notes" in the search bar for a ton of quick builds. Also, imbabuilds.com is a good place for up-to-date builds. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I think the cheesiest thing you can do right now is play a macro game. | ||
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SonGoku
Germany152 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:29 SC2John wrote: Some of them, a little. We're working on updating the OP. If you want some quick builds, I suggest looking at the Recommended Threads. Otherwise, search "SC2 notes" in the search bar for a ton of quick builds. Also, imbabuilds.com is a good place for up-to-date builds. Ok I got Dears 3gate blink opener for PvP, Dears Phoenix into Colossus for PvZ and for PvT I have MCs Oracle Expand and or Rains 1gate FE printed. So these are viable in the current meta for top dia/low-mid master? | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Phoenix into Colos is fine. So is Oracle Expand (just be on the lookout for widow mine cheese). Anything Rain does is always good. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
Waystation and Alterzim vetoed forever. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
Several pages back you posted about going against mech and posted "There are several different ways to play against mech, and the one I dislike the most is counter-turtling and getting tempest/cannon. Personally, the best solution I've found is going double robo, taking a fairly quick 3rd (~8:00-9:00), and pressuring with a small army of 2 colossus/4 immortals/handful of gateway units while taking a 4th. In conjunction with a warp prism, your small army should make it very hard for the mech player to take a 4th. Behind this, start a void ray switch (while continuing immortal production). At ~8 void rays/8 immortals/2 colossus/several chargelots, you can pretty much amove into the Terran army ftw. Opening blink/immortal and pressuring on two different fronts is also quite good against mech, but much heavily on the multi-tasking. Hope this helps!" How exactly do you get your 2nd robo is my question.. do you go for the robo bay and then the 2nd robo? I normally open robo or stargate into templar so I'm wondering about that one. I just tested it out and you don't really have to cut too much by just dropping the 2nd robo before bay, but I'm curious about it. | ||
[MD]Frostbite
Canada292 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 18 2014 06:50 [MD]Frostbite wrote: So I've been 1gate FE vs zerg and I've gotten early pooled everytime (as of writing 2 games into season 2) I hold them off but I'm a little behind if not a lot. So, when i send my 12 scout, how completed should be the pool for a normal opener of 14pool14hatch? 14 pool goes down at 1:50 13 scout arrives ~2:45 So...almost done? Personally, I think it's better just blindly make a zealot and make sure you have a wall + sentry at your wall by 5:30 and you can skip the scout. As long as you get an early zealot out, you can hold off the lings long enough to get a MSC and early pool pressure is completely shut down. You can also "cycle" the zealot by waiting until 3:30 (after the time a 6pool would hit) and cancelling it to make a nexus. On April 17 2014 21:27 shivver wrote: Post for SC2john, or anyone that can answer really Several pages back you posted about going against mech and posted "There are several different ways to play against mech, and the one I dislike the most is counter-turtling and getting tempest/cannon. Personally, the best solution I've found is going double robo, taking a fairly quick 3rd (~8:00-9:00), and pressuring with a small army of 2 colossus/4 immortals/handful of gateway units while taking a 4th. In conjunction with a warp prism, your small army should make it very hard for the mech player to take a 4th. Behind this, start a void ray switch (while continuing immortal production). At ~8 void rays/8 immortals/2 colossus/several chargelots, you can pretty much amove into the Terran army ftw. Opening blink/immortal and pressuring on two different fronts is also quite good against mech, but much heavily on the multi-tasking. Hope this helps!" How exactly do you get your 2nd robo is my question.. do you go for the robo bay and then the 2nd robo? I normally open robo or stargate into templar so I'm wondering about that one. I just tested it out and you don't really have to cut too much by just dropping the 2nd robo before bay, but I'm curious about it. It's been a while since I've played Protoss, and it was pretty rare even for me to play against mech. But I BELIEVE you should be able to start the second robo and robo den at the same time. If you go for this kind of robo-based play, you can skip twilight council upgrades until later because your army will literally just consist of robo units and maybe a few stalkers and/or sentries you made to defend early on. Behind this -> 4th base + twilight upgrades + void rays -> near maxed attack. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:43 DinoMight wrote: Do all Terrans just get blind turrets now? It's getting very difficult to do damage with Oracles/DTs even when you deny scouting completely. I think the cheesiest thing you can do right now is play a macro game. Seems like it. I gave up on oracles. Can't get anything done with them anymore. Except I can't win macro games either because I keep getting completely wrecked in the midgame. My PvT winrate is now in the low 30s. It usually is in the mid-60s and has been since WOL since it has always been my favourite matchup. Playing macro style PvT is quite tough these days. There's so many powerful midgame timings now that they can do in response to scouting what tech you are going. | ||
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On April 18 2014 16:25 Ben... wrote: Seems like it. I gave up on oracles. Can't get anything done with them anymore. Except I can't win macro games either because I keep getting completely wrecked in the midgame. My PvT winrate is now in the low 30s. It usually is in the mid-60s and has been since WOL since it has always been my favourite matchup. Playing macro style PvT is quite tough these days. There's so many powerful midgame timings now that they can do in response to scouting what tech you are going. If everyone is building turrets blindly, wouldn't it be much easier to just kill them with a blink all in? But honestly, even if they do get turrets, it shouldn't be a problem. Use your oracle to scout army movement, spot thirds, kill scvs at their third before they have a turret up, clear any watch towers that are taken by marines, etc. It's usually possible to kill a few scvs that are outside turret range too. You also have the option of getting a robo for observers afterwards if you feel like it or even make a few phoenixes, say 3-4, to shut down any drops. There's no reason to consider an oracle opener a cheesy style. You should still be able to get a few things done with it as long as you work on this different skill set. An oracle in the hands of a good player can do a lot more than just get a whole bunch of worker kills by sheer luck. Whether you think it's worth it is a different story though. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 20 2014 01:58 vhapter wrote: If everyone is building turrets blindly, wouldn't it be much easier to just kill them with a blink all in? But honestly, even if they do get turrets, it shouldn't be a problem. Use your oracle to scout army movement, spot thirds, kill scvs at their third before they have a turret up, clear any watch towers that are taken by marines, etc. It's usually possible to kill a few scvs that are outside turret range too. You also have the option of getting a robo for observers afterwards if you feel like it or even make a few phoenixes, say 3-4, to shut down any drops. There's no reason to consider an oracle opener a cheesy style. You should still be able to get a few things done with it as long as you work on this different skill set. An oracle in the hands of a good player can do a lot more than just get a whole bunch of worker kills by sheer luck. Whether you think it's worth it is a different story though. What your suggesting is to use good micro, game sense, and scouting to more effectively use units outside of their intended design--stop it | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
On April 20 2014 02:02 Thieving Magpie wrote: What your suggesting is to use good micro, game sense, and scouting to more effectively use units outside of their intended design--stop it Yeah, we are protoss we are only allowed to 1 - A Honestly though, yes. If you get an oracle and it wont kill a bunch of workers its still very very useful. If you can envision their army at the 10 min mark when the medivacs first pop youve basically shut down their timing, as you can prepare and play as greedy as you need to in order to make up for the fact you didnt get as many worker kills as you might have wanted. Also making an early engineering bay and turrets cuts into not only scv build time but helps delay the second orbital which also costs 150 minerals. So it slows down their mules which is super nice. If you lose the oracle you can't play greedy and you can't be sure to deal with the 2 medivac drop. So you end up behind because you have no map vision. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 20 2014 02:12 ZeromuS wrote: Yeah, we are protoss we are only allowed to 1 - A Honestly though, yes. If you get an oracle and it wont kill a bunch of workers its still very very useful. If you can envision their army at the 10 min mark when the medivacs first pop youve basically shut down their timing, as you can prepare and play as greedy as you need to in order to make up for the fact you didnt get as many worker kills as you might have wanted. Also making an early engineering bay and turrets cuts into not only scv build time but helps delay the second orbital which also costs 150 minerals. So it slows down their mules which is super nice. If you lose the oracle you can't play greedy and you can't be sure to deal with the 2 medivac drop. So you end up behind because you have no map vision. eBay + 2 turrets is 325 minerals + mining time. If you add a 3rd turret its 425 + more mining time, if you leave the minimum 4 marines that's 200 minerals of troops stuck at home. Going for an Oracle Opening is NOT "cheesy" play and for the most part is more akin to a banshee opening. Both are bad only if you lose the unit. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 20 2014 02:48 Thieving Magpie wrote: eBay + 2 turrets is 325 minerals + mining time. If you add a 3rd turret its 425 + more mining time, if you leave the minimum 4 marines that's 200 minerals of troops stuck at home. Going for an Oracle Opening is NOT "cheesy" play and for the most part is more akin to a banshee opening. Both are bad only if you lose the unit. Don't forget that one oracle forces the Terran player to stay at home until ~8:00. For 300/300 total, that's the cheapest map control in the entire matchup. I always talk about using oracle openings as "aggressive" openings, even if you play very passively behind it. The power of the oracle isn't really how much damage it can do, but rather how much space it gives you to do whatever you want; the fact that it can decimate an entire mineral line or at least pick off workers here and there is an added bonus. | ||
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