EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 253
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Whitewing, I was thinking MSC first as an option as it means that I may have energy for a PO but that means my Stalkers are delayed, so I don't think that would work, either. I don't have the replay, sorry. I deleted it for the start of S2. Thanks, chaps. Yes, it is a strong build. I hope I don't run into it too often. The fact that it is hard to scout makes it deadly. Edit/ How would you hold it if you did scout it? I probe scout around my main and natural after Gate on 13. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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shivver
United States232 Posts
On April 15 2014 06:23 aZealot wrote: Any thoughts on this? Looking at the replay, I should have pulled my probes better. Maybe 3 each to the first 2 Stalkers and CB out the first Stalker to kite the Zealot. Then queue two more units (Stalker and Zealot) while the MSC builds. I had 22 probes to his 12 when he hit, so I can afford to lose a few. I'm wondering if I should rejig my opening to go MSC first into 3 Stalkers but I really like the flexibility of my current opening. I deal with most things, so far, pretty well with a 3 Stalker rush. I like pulling 3-4 probes per stalker and focusing them on the stalkers, if there's 2 then shift click them. It really really helps if you can just focus on killing the zlot | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
The only time I came close to holding was when I was preparing to 10gate 3gate rush and scouted nothing in their main so I immediately threw a second gate down. I had my core done faster than normal due to the 10gate and had a ton of banked chronoboost for rushing out warp gate so I managed to get 2 stalkers out but because other guy had a zealot I had to pull a few probes to tank and I ended up being a bit behind as a result which snowballed. For the 2 base chargelot/templar build, I am in the Rain camp. I don't think opening templar is viable anymore against a good terran who properly splits mines up before burrowing them (since that negates the ability to kill them with storm, since at best you will kill one mine per storm, which is far from optimal) and controls their army well. Doubly so if they make an effort to push back or snipe observers. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Alterzim Stronghold TE: just personal opinion but I hate this map (veto) Frost LE: this is a good map that seems balanced Habitation Station LE: pretty straightforward map, really good for 2 base allins if you're so inclined  King Sejong Station LE: I don't know how to feel about this map. Vs. Z I like all the open space around the bases to harass from but vs. a good Terran player drops into your main just seem like a pain to deal with when there's an attack coming half a mile away at your third... Overgrowth LE: I've played a couple of games on this map.. seems alright. should have some good macro games on it Merry Go Round LE: I don't know what it is but this map bugs me. The structure just doesn't seem very good for fighting, and there's one person who's going to be at a "disadvantage" depending on spawning locations (veto) Waystation: this map is. fucking. stupid. It's really hard to take a fight near the middle of the map and spawning stupid spawns (middle vertical) makes it very hard to fight Zerg or take a 3rd base (it's all the way off to the side). 2 base allin or die trying here.. (veto) | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 15 2014 22:59 DinoMight wrote: Has anyone thought about which of the maps in the new pool are good for Protoss? Here are my thoughts: Alterzim Stronghold TE: just personal opinion but I hate this map (veto) Frost LE: this is a good map that seems balanced Habitation Station LE: pretty straightforward map, really good for 2 base allins if you're so inclined King Sejong Station LE: I don't know how to feel about this map. Vs. Z I like all the open space around the bases to harass from but vs. a good Terran player drops into your main just seem like a pain to deal with when there's an attack coming half a mile away at your third... Overgrowth LE: I've played a couple of games on this map.. seems alright. should have some good macro games on it Merry Go Round LE: I don't know what it is but this map bugs me. The structure just doesn't seem very good for fighting, and there's one person who's going to be at a "disadvantage" depending on spawning locations (veto) Waystation: this map is. fucking. stupid. It's really hard to take a fight near the middle of the map and spawning stupid spawns (middle vertical) makes it very hard to fight Zerg or take a 3rd base (it's all the way off to the side). 2 base allin or die trying here.. (veto) I just want everyone to know that in the long positions on Waystation, Zerg cannot get an overlord to the Protoss base until ~4:30. This means that you have a lot of potential for cheese. Same thing goes for cross positions on Alterzim. It's impossible to spot something like very fast DTs off of 2 bases before they actually hit. Other than that, I think Alterzim and Waystation are pretty horrible maps hahaha. Overgrowth and Sejong Station are not bad. I haven't played on Merry Go Round yet. On April 15 2014 23:06 OPDream wrote: I am having trouble in pvz midgame. After taking 3rd, when should I move out and do some dmg? (army composition is blink stalker and colossus). Depends on what your opponent is doing. If your opponent takes a 4th base and plays passively, you can actually walk out and kill the 4th base with only 1-2 colossus and walk back home/recall. If the Zerg player is playing very aggressively on lair and trading a lot, it's better to just wait until ~14:00-15:00 when you have HT as well. Usually Protoss goes for a maxed or nearly maxed out push at this time while securing a 4th in the process. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 15 2014 17:31 SatedSC2 wrote: Like I said on the previous page, I really think that Hallucinations are the answer. We used to make a lot more Sentries than we do now and still go for Templar openings, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to add a few more Sentries specifically for the purpose of Hallucination. You get a lot of Zealots out of a few Hallucinations, and they will trigger most of Mines in the early/mid game because the Terran simply won't be able to kill them fast enough. Maybe it really doesn't work at higher levels and that's why we're not seeing it being tried, but I still don't think it is as bad as Rain made it out to be... EDIT: I'm also pretty sure that by the time army sizes are large enough that this is no longer viable, that the switch to Colossus tech should've already been made. Especially if you open Robotics Facility -> Templar since you'll already have the Robotics Facility (as opposed to relying on Cannons for early detection). Detected hallucinations don't trigger widow mines. All he has to do is scan and all those sentries are wasted. It also cuts into your storm count or upgrades, and you can barely afford 1 forge as it is while doing a 2 base templar build. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 16 2014 08:34 LikeTheSnow wrote: What should I do against a tank/hellbat/viking/ghost composition? Is better to go for colossi as against bio with the add of a second robo and immortals or go straight into immortal archons? Or what else? Thank you in advance Like all things, you kind of want to kill them or maim them before then. But if you can't, the ideal army is about the same as vs. bio: stalker/colossus with some HT support and archons, immortals, and zealots sprinkled in there. The biggest difference is that you need to get a full surround engagement so that you can get immortals/zealots hitting tanks while the colossus/stalker ball is dealing with the hellbats. And, as always, storm everything that you can. It's also possible to go into a void ray transition, but you need to really slow down the 4th base of the mech player and force them to make A LOT of tanks via a more robo-heavy composition. This is my preferred method of dealing with mech. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 16 2014 08:45 SC2John wrote: Like all things, you kind of want to kill them or maim them before then. But if you can't, the ideal army is about the same as vs. bio: stalker/colossus with some HT support and archons, immortals, and zealots sprinkled in there. The biggest difference is that you need to get a full surround engagement so that you can get immortals/zealots hitting tanks while the colossus/stalker ball is dealing with the hellbats. And, as always, storm everything that you can. It's also possible to go into a void ray transition, but you need to really slow down the 4th base of the mech player and force them to make A LOT of tanks via a more robo-heavy composition. This is my preferred method of dealing with mech. I'm of the opinion Archon, High Templar, Void Ray and Phoenix (and possible Carrier/Tempest) are all more efficient than Stalkers are. The first two depend on the Ghost count/control, the second two on viking count, the last two on how much time you are given. Stalkers are so bad verse Sieged Tanks... So are Zealots vs Hellbat Ghost by the way. Nor do you really need collosi either. The composition you go for works verse a mech style that maxes and then moves out. Verse defensive Mech, your army quickly becomes very bad because Collosi don't do a whole lot in normal engagements, Zealot and Stalkers tend to melt. The army you use is however very mobile, so you can use it to basetrade him efficiently. That's my opinion, I like to be a lot more gas/tech heavy vs Mech. | ||
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
On April 16 2014 08:45 SC2John wrote: Like all things, you kind of want to kill them or maim them before then. But if you can't, the ideal army is about the same as vs. bio: stalker/colossus with some HT support and archons, immortals, and zealots sprinkled in there. The biggest difference is that you need to get a full surround engagement so that you can get immortals/zealots hitting tanks while the colossus/stalker ball is dealing with the hellbats. And, as always, storm everything that you can. It's also possible to go into a void ray transition, but you need to really slow down the 4th base of the mech player and force them to make A LOT of tanks via a more robo-heavy composition. This is my preferred method of dealing with mech. Okay, very thanks John! | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I faced this strategy a lot more than I cared to yesterday and lost to it pretty much every time. Was just opening standard. Widow mines arrive before detection, marines arrive at natural.. 1-2 Mines burrowed on the ramp and then starts going for the workers. Camps my robo to scan as soon as obs comes out. | ||
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