EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 255
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
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shivver
United States232 Posts
I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this? | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On April 20 2014 04:09 Xinzoe wrote: what do i do vs roach hydra max on 13 minute (no vipers, all resources are in army) on big maps like frost and alterzim? If i go ffe i usually go phoenix, but its very easy to shut down and its usually wasted gas. Then i wont have enough sentry/colo to shut down the never ending stream of roaches. this is kr masters That's pretty high level. A replay would make it easier to say something helpful tbh. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote: I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too? I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this? Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway. On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote: What are your veto maps for this season? I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss. By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote: Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway. I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss. By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line. Overgrowth should be really easy to hold that third. Like, amazingly easy. The difficulty is in securing the 4th base, where you HAVE to break down those rocks. Waystation...well, that's an interesting map. I don't know how I feel about it, but Terrans and Zergs seem to like it. I personally hate it. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote: Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway. I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss. By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line. if you sense Dts then you can indeed get the oracle out in time and still have one dt heading into his main. Vs 4 gate blink ofc you just win sense they have no detection. Against dear style blink with the 6 minute'ish robo, yeah there could be some issues. The thing about that build is that it's mostly a safe blink opening looking to expand. I think going into phoenix after the oracle can keep you decently safe as long as you dont lose your msc. Idk i'll test it out some more | ||
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote: How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement? I like to do that myself because of archons since they usually play a very important role in late game PvP. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote: How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement? It helps with harass defense too: +shields helps protect your buildings from zealot runbys. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 20 2014 15:19 Whitewing wrote: It helps with harass defense too: +shields helps protect your buildings from zealot runbys. Probably because you want to get rid of zealots, and Collosus Archon Immortal has more shields than HP? I don't know, honestly. | ||
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
On April 20 2014 08:43 SC2John wrote: Overgrowth should be really easy to hold that third. Like, amazingly easy. The difficulty is in securing the 4th base, where you HAVE to break down those rocks. Waystation...well, that's an interesting map. I don't know how I feel about it, but Terrans and Zergs seem to like it. I personally hate it. And what about Habitation Station? I like it, but I hate the gold minerals. I mean, how do you deal with gold thirds against terran and zerg? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 20 2014 19:36 LikeTheSnow wrote: And what about Habitation Station? I like it, but I hate the gold minerals. I mean, how do you deal with gold thirds against terran and zerg? There are a couple of different ways of going about it, but the most common way I see most pro players play this map is: Attack your opponent first and take the gold before they can take theirs. If you can do that, you should be in a decent position; playing defensively on this map as Protoss is not a good idea imo. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
other wise nexus first let's you execute any 2base all-in 15 seconds earlier. plus most people seem to have gap between the time forge finishes and the time they start their cannon (mainly because they want to build gateway and 2nd pylon). So why not just nexus first anyway so you can close that gap and still gain economic advantage | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 21 2014 20:49 SatedSC2 wrote: What am I supposed to do against Zerg on Waystation? The third bases are so open that it is difficult to either 2 base all-in or take a 3rd base. I would normally just veto it, but I heavily dislike maps that are the size of Alterzim Stronghold and Frost, and Merry Go Round has positional imbalances that are almost on the same level as Antiga Shipyard. In fact, better question: How can I hold all these terrible maps? >_< Frost is a good map, you should play it. Defending your third vs. Zerg is pretty easy (you take the one tucked into your main base) and just FF if he tries to go up the ramp into your natural. I will never play Alterzim in my life. So that one is vetoed. It's just the worst. As for the other maps, just learn some really good 2 base allins and do them... that's really the best a Protoss can hope to do I think. Especially the top right / bottom left positions on Waystation. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote: How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement? Archons / Air. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 20 2014 04:09 Xinzoe wrote: what do i do vs roach hydra max on 13 minute (no vipers, all resources are in army) on big maps like frost and alterzim? If i go ffe i usually go phoenix, but its very easy to shut down and its usually wasted gas. Then i wont have enough sentry/colo to shut down the never ending stream of roaches. this is kr masters The only way to get to max by 13 is to be really greedy in the early game. It's not like Terran where they keep making army and build to a large size. Zerg has nothing forever and then explodes in supply. So you need to take your 3rd very aggressively in order to keep up in econ. Take it early while they can't pressure it (because they're only making drones). Conversely, you could attack them early with a sharp 2 base timing to do economic damage. Also you should be starting your robo very soon after your Starport so you can start getting your Colossus count up. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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