• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:29
CEST 01:29
KST 08:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. No Rain in ASL20? How do I speak directly to Coinbase?1-(888)-419-97 Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group D [ASL20] Ro24 Group E Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1026 users

The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 255

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 253 254 255 256 257 367 Next
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders.
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
April 19 2014 19:09 GMT
#5081
what do i do vs roach hydra max on 13 minute (no vipers, all resources are in army) on big maps like frost and alterzim? If i go ffe i usually go phoenix, but its very easy to shut down and its usually wasted gas. Then i wont have enough sentry/colo to shut down the never ending stream of roaches. this is kr masters
shivver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
April 19 2014 21:07 GMT
#5082
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
April 19 2014 21:09 GMT
#5083
On April 20 2014 04:09 Xinzoe wrote:
what do i do vs roach hydra max on 13 minute (no vipers, all resources are in army) on big maps like frost and alterzim? If i go ffe i usually go phoenix, but its very easy to shut down and its usually wasted gas. Then i wont have enough sentry/colo to shut down the never ending stream of roaches. this is kr masters


That's pretty high level. A replay would make it easier to say something helpful tbh.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-19 22:53:40
April 19 2014 22:49 GMT
#5084
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote:
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?


Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway.

On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote:
What are your veto maps for this season?


I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss.


By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
April 19 2014 23:43 GMT
#5085
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote:
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?


Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway.

Show nested quote +
On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote:
What are your veto maps for this season?


I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss.


By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line.


Overgrowth should be really easy to hold that third. Like, amazingly easy. The difficulty is in securing the 4th base, where you HAVE to break down those rocks. Waystation...well, that's an interesting map. I don't know how I feel about it, but Terrans and Zergs seem to like it. I personally hate it.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
shivver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
April 20 2014 01:12 GMT
#5086
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote:
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?


Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway.

Show nested quote +
On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote:
What are your veto maps for this season?


I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss.


By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line.


if you sense Dts then you can indeed get the oracle out in time and still have one dt heading into his main. Vs 4 gate blink ofc you just win sense they have no detection. Against dear style blink with the 6 minute'ish robo, yeah there could be some issues.

The thing about that build is that it's mostly a safe blink opening looking to expand. I think going into phoenix after the oracle can keep you decently safe as long as you dont lose your msc.

Idk i'll test it out some more
eNtitY~
Profile Joined January 2007
United States1293 Posts
April 20 2014 05:24 GMT
#5087
How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement?
http://www.starcraftdream.com
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
April 20 2014 05:35 GMT
#5088
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote:
How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement?


I like to do that myself because of archons since they usually play a very important role in late game PvP.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 20 2014 06:19 GMT
#5089
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote:
How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement?


It helps with harass defense too: +shields helps protect your buildings from zealot runbys.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
April 20 2014 06:48 GMT
#5090
On April 20 2014 15:19 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote:
How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement?


It helps with harass defense too: +shields helps protect your buildings from zealot runbys.

Probably because you want to get rid of zealots, and Collosus Archon Immortal has more shields than HP? I don't know, honestly.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
LikeTheSnow
Profile Joined April 2012
Italy16 Posts
April 20 2014 10:36 GMT
#5091
On April 20 2014 08:43 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote:
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote:
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?


Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway.

On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote:
What are your veto maps for this season?


I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss.


By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line.


Overgrowth should be really easy to hold that third. Like, amazingly easy. The difficulty is in securing the 4th base, where you HAVE to break down those rocks. Waystation...well, that's an interesting map. I don't know how I feel about it, but Terrans and Zergs seem to like it. I personally hate it.


And what about Habitation Station? I like it, but I hate the gold minerals. I mean, how do you deal with gold thirds against terran and zerg?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
April 20 2014 13:45 GMT
#5092
On April 20 2014 19:36 LikeTheSnow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2014 08:43 SC2John wrote:
On April 20 2014 07:49 KingAlphard wrote:
On April 20 2014 06:07 shivver wrote:
I was wondering, when going dt expand, instead of getting the 6 minute robo, can you just go stargate and chrono out an oracle in case he's going Dts too?

I want to get phoenix up and running but is there weakness to this?


Seems very very weak against blink+robo. No way you could have units in time to defend from that. Also stargate and oracle cost a lot of gas (300 vs 175 of robo+observer), I doubt you would even have detection in time unless you warp in only 1 DT and of course get max. 1 stalker from the first gateway.

On April 19 2014 22:17 LikeTheSnow wrote:
What are your veto maps for this season?


I vetoed Overgrowth and Waystation because the third bases seem impossible to defend. I like the other new maps more, while the old ones are pretty much good overall for Protoss.


By the way, has anyone already noticed the juicy cannon rush spot in King Sejong's station? Seems about as good as Yeonsu, very far away from the ramp and gets within Nexus range with a single pylon on the high ground. Only downside is that you can't get a pylon in the highground first because it's too close to the mineral line.


Overgrowth should be really easy to hold that third. Like, amazingly easy. The difficulty is in securing the 4th base, where you HAVE to break down those rocks. Waystation...well, that's an interesting map. I don't know how I feel about it, but Terrans and Zergs seem to like it. I personally hate it.


And what about Habitation Station? I like it, but I hate the gold minerals. I mean, how do you deal with gold thirds against terran and zerg?


There are a couple of different ways of going about it, but the most common way I see most pro players play this map is: Attack your opponent first and take the gold before they can take theirs. If you can do that, you should be in a decent position; playing defensively on this map as Protoss is not a good idea imo.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-20 17:21:17
April 20 2014 17:20 GMT
#5093
Why is Nexus First FFE considered more economical than Forge First FFE when both builds get the Nexus at 17 supply? It seems like any economic difference between the two builds must be trivial.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
April 20 2014 17:51 GMT
#5094
With nex first you start your expo 150 minerals earlier, which also means it completes earlier and you get slightly more probes and chrono. I seem to remember that the difference is 3 probes at 8 minutes, but i'm not 100% sure on that. If you have clean macro, it's definitely noticable.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-20 18:58:37
April 20 2014 18:49 GMT
#5095
You should only go forge first if u either didn't 9 scout, want to cannon rush, or opponent didn't say glhf so u are expecting a 6pool xD.

other wise nexus first let's you execute any 2base all-in 15 seconds earlier.

plus most people seem to have gap between the time forge finishes and the time they start their cannon (mainly because they want to build gateway and 2nd pylon). So why not just nexus first anyway so you can close that gap and still gain economic advantage
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-21 11:50:01
April 21 2014 11:49 GMT
#5096
--- Nuked ---
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
April 21 2014 15:12 GMT
#5097
On April 21 2014 20:49 SatedSC2 wrote:
What am I supposed to do against Zerg on Waystation? The third bases are so open that it is difficult to either 2 base all-in or take a 3rd base. I would normally just veto it, but I heavily dislike maps that are the size of Alterzim Stronghold and Frost, and Merry Go Round has positional imbalances that are almost on the same level as Antiga Shipyard.

In fact, better question: How can I hold all these terrible maps? >_<


Frost is a good map, you should play it. Defending your third vs. Zerg is pretty easy (you take the one tucked into your main base) and just FF if he tries to go up the ramp into your natural.

I will never play Alterzim in my life. So that one is vetoed. It's just the worst.

As for the other maps, just learn some really good 2 base allins and do them... that's really the best a Protoss can hope to do I think. Especially the top right / bottom left positions on Waystation.

"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
April 21 2014 15:14 GMT
#5098
On April 20 2014 14:24 eNtitY~ wrote:
How come in PvP you see top players getting +1 shields are they finish +3 attack? Is it because it counts towards air units as well if they make Tempest or is it so they could poke around more? would +1 armor be better in a straight up engagement?


Archons / Air.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-21 15:23:46
April 21 2014 15:16 GMT
#5099
On April 20 2014 04:09 Xinzoe wrote:
what do i do vs roach hydra max on 13 minute (no vipers, all resources are in army) on big maps like frost and alterzim? If i go ffe i usually go phoenix, but its very easy to shut down and its usually wasted gas. Then i wont have enough sentry/colo to shut down the never ending stream of roaches. this is kr masters


The only way to get to max by 13 is to be really greedy in the early game. It's not like Terran where they keep making army and build to a large size. Zerg has nothing forever and then explodes in supply.

So you need to take your 3rd very aggressively in order to keep up in econ. Take it early while they can't pressure it (because they're only making drones). Conversely, you could attack them early with a sharp 2 base timing to do economic damage.

Also you should be starting your robo very soon after your Starport so you can start getting your Colossus count up.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-22 09:12:59
April 22 2014 09:12 GMT
#5100
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 253 254 255 256 257 367 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech122
CosmosSc2 48
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 727
Aegong 65
Purpose 17
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm25
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K560
taco 437
Foxcn251
fl0m53
Other Games
summit1g7309
tarik_tv2769
Grubby2133
shahzam483
Day[9].tv391
Sick367
C9.Mang0293
ViBE203
ToD196
Mew2King42
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 54
• RyuSc2 52
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• iopq 0
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21854
League of Legends
• Doublelift3907
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur190
Other Games
• imaqtpie1047
• Day9tv391
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
32m
LiuLi Cup
11h 32m
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
16h 32m
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
Big Brain Bouts
16h 32m
Iba vs GgMaChine
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Reynor vs Classic
Serral vs Clem
BSL Team Wars
19h 32m
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
19h 32m
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
Code For Giants Cup
23h 2m
SC Evo League
1d 12h
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
1d 16h
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.