The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 257

On April 25 2014 05:54 shivver wrote:
Two questions

On merry go round PvZ, how do you defend a 14 pool speedling all in with macro hatch at the natural? They just continually flood lings and there's such a huge area between your main nexus all the way to the ramp. I feel like if you wall at the ramp it's probably a lot easier to defend but is that really needed? I could never get that pylon down at the ramp to wall it, never even got close.

On any map PvT, is it viable to skip the oracle and just open phoenix into forge? What is this going to be weak too? I'm not even really sure why I'd want to skip the oracle but I've just heard about people doing this and continually making phoenix up to like 5 and just harassing and delaying the crap out of the terran.

On April 25 2014 05:54 shivver wrote:
Two questions

On merry go round PvZ, how do you defend a 14 pool speedling all in with macro hatch at the natural? They just continually flood lings and there's such a huge area between your main nexus all the way to the ramp. I feel like if you wall at the ramp it's probably a lot easier to defend but is that really needed? I could never get that pylon down at the ramp to wall it, never even got close.

On any map PvT, is it viable to skip the oracle and just open phoenix into forge? What is this going to be weak too? I'm not even really sure why I'd want to skip the oracle but I've just heard about people doing this and continually making phoenix up to like 5 and just harassing and delaying the crap out of the terran.

On April 25 2014 07:30 Xinzoe wrote:


if u see 14 pool 14 gas, then use a forge as part of the natural wall, then keep building pylons to buy time for at least 2 cannons. also you should wall before throwing down nexus (speedlings hit at 5-5:30, use ur zealot and msc to kill the initial 6 zerglings). If u wanna get the zerg to shit his pants u can also rush DTs after u feel safe. Even if ur DTs fail, archons will win against any non-lair tech unit, he wont have hydras if u try to counter at 9:30 with archon zealot

Edit: this is done off a gateway expand opening

On April 25 2014 05:52 SC2John wrote:


Kind of. It's hard to say if it's necessarily "no longer viable", but it's very very difficult to deal with and many Protosses are switching back to colossus openings. I would say the robo-less variants of templar builds are completely dead though...GOTTA GET DAT DETECTION!

If you played the style that Teoita wrote about in his 2 Base Templar guide, you should be in decent shape though; just know that it might be a little harder to execute now.

On April 25 2014 17:31 Tharkun wrote:

I'm playing the Oracle/Chargelot into HT style I wrote a guide about a couple months ago.
So I do have access to detection early on.
It feels like, as the game progresses and terran adds more and more WMs, chargelot/HT gets from being good to being absolute crap, if I'm not able to manage WM numbers.

I think I have to focus to transition to colossus much more quickly if he adds WMs, perhaps even think about skipping the HT transition entirely.

OR open blink into colossus. This has been nerfed obviously, but still good I guess.

On April 26 2014 02:22 SC2John wrote:


The difference between FFE and 1-gate FE is like 3-4 probes and a chronoboost, I believe. It's not much of a difference, but it allows 2-base all-ins to hit ~15 seconds earlier.

1-gate vs. 2-gate expands in PvT are pretty comparable. If you watch CJ_herO, he gets a nexus down almost as fast as a 1-gas FE with 2 gases while still enjoying the gas boost from the second geyser afterwards. The only real difference I see is maybe 1 probe faster with 1-gas FE. Also, if you go 2-gas FE, you can delay the natural gases until after extra gates because you'll already be floating some gas .

I hope that helps!

On April 25 2014 22:03 Nyast wrote:
PvZ on Merry-go-round: Zerg camps the center with Swarm Hosts. Usually against SH on other maps I try to make use of my mobility, attack on other sides etc.. However once Zerg is installed on the center of the map on MGR, the range of SH reaches all bases, he doesn't have to move them at all, just redirect the flood of locusts.

Is there any particular strat on this map when facing SH ? Other than "killing Zerg before he gets SHs" ?

On April 26 2014 04:34 SC2John wrote:


It depends on how far ahead you are in comparison to the Zerg. If you kill the third and lose almost nothing, just recall and do another attack with colossus EZWIN-mode (or you can just take a 3rd and head into the late game). If it's more even, you'll probably need to weigh the options a little more closely; in general, it's safer to just take a 3rd, but a followup allin can also work if you can do warp prism harass, get a good position on the map, or just take a really good engagement.

I'm not sure what you mean by the followup. Either is viable, neither is really "better". Whichever composition you choose should be a part of your game plan going into the game and based on your understanding of where you want to be in the mid/late game and exactly WHEN you want to win. In general, you could say blink followups are a little more aggressive than colossus followups, but that's not always necessarily true. Just play around with what works best for you.

(If you want my opinion, I would always go colossus because it's just safer).

On April 26 2014 02:22 SC2John wrote:

The difference between FFE and 1-gate FE is like 3-4 probes and a chronoboost, I believe. It's not much of a difference, but it allows 2-base all-ins to hit ~15 seconds earlier.

On April 25 2014 15:58 shivver wrote:


so wall with pylons to get the cannons down and tech to DTs, okay I'll try it

On April 25 2014 23:50 FreeZEternal wrote:
Hey guys,

What's the difference in timings/economic when going 1 gate FE (1gas) vs FFE vs 1 gate FE (2gas)? Against zerg I am mostly doing FFE but versus terran, I'm alternating between 1 gas and 2 gas. For the 2 gas build I assume there's only 2 probes in each gas.