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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
So let me ask: is it normal to open 10 gate, then do nothing but a stalker with it and go for Stargate? And aroundish 6 minute forge that happens to warp few seconds after I start Dark Shrine? Guy had no vision at all of what I'm doing, but before I accuse someone I just want to ask. http://drop.sc/379160 Otherwise, I was just slowly dying. What to do against mass air when I'm totally behind? Guess I was to passive and should've attacked ASAP as my storm finished? | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On April 23 2014 04:00 OsaX Nymloth wrote: I just played a game and not sure if guy just have weird build or he has some "help". So let me ask: is it normal to open 10 gate, then do nothing but a stalker with it and go for Stargate? And aroundish 6 minute forge that happens to warp few seconds after I start Dark Shrine? Guy had no vision at all of what I'm doing, but before I accuse someone I just want to ask. http://drop.sc/379160 Otherwise, I was just slowly dying. What to do against mass air when I'm totally behind? Guess I was to passive and should've attacked ASAP as my storm finished? if you're not in master league i don't think you should be taking "abnormal builds" as an indication of cheating. his scouting probe at 5:00 missed your pylons and his forge was built more than "a few seconds" after your shrine - maybe he just knows the timing and what his build is weak to. | ||
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
Any recommendations on ways to pressure a mech player early without going all in or leaving my own base open to hellion/mine attacks? | ||
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
On April 23 2014 04:21 Waise wrote: if you're not in master league i don't think you should be taking "abnormal builds" as an indication of cheating. his scouting probe at 5:00 missed your pylons and his forge was built more than "a few seconds" after your shrine - maybe he just knows the timing and what his build is weak to. Of course, that's why I ask here not in the cheaters thread  wanted to ask the guy himself, but he just said "no" to my question if I can ask a question (xP) and disconnected. This build was just a bit weird, especially that it was totally countering what I wanted to do this game. But again, he probably just knows timings well. How about my question, what to do against mass void rays when I'm behind? | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 23 2014 04:36 OsaX Nymloth wrote: Of course, that's why I ask here not in the cheaters thread wanted to ask the guy himself, but he just said "no" to my question if I can ask a question (xP) and disconnected. This build was just a bit weird, especially that it was totally countering what I wanted to do this game. But again, he probably just knows timings well. How about my question, what to do against mass void rays when I'm behind? It's a little strange to go 10-gate -> stargate, but I know the 10-gate -> 3-gate pressure will typically poke the front and throw down a blind forge if there are like no units defending (indicating a dark shrine, usually). On April 23 2014 04:29 phyren wrote: I took a several month break and am getting back into the game now. I've been having issues with terrans who go mech. there's a big difference between those who commit to heavy hellion harass and those who turtle up with several bunkers and go straight into thors and a third base. Especially on some of these maps with in base seconds or thirds than can be covered by tanks from the main it seems both versions of mech are viable. The hellions can be dropped because of the large size of the base, and the tanks can cover very early third bases from terran. I specifically find that zealots are near useless with any hellions or mines present in the mid game. Any recommendations on ways to pressure a mech player early without going all in or leaving my own base open to hellion/mine attacks? I will preach this playstyle to everyone who asks in this thread: Go double robo/robo den and pressure with ~6 immortals/2 colossus/a few stalkers while doing warp prism harassment TO PREVENT THE FOURTH BASE. You can beat any 3-base pressure with a robo army + good positioning. Meanwhile, build 2-3 stargates and pump out ~8 void rays then do a big attack with chargelot/blink stalker support. This hits right at a critical time when the mech player has to either add on a lot of ghosts, vikings, or ravens. Your army composition should be enough to skew the tank count far enough to obliterate it with air  .You don't need to prevent the 3rd base from going down. You can make it difficult by using a handful of stalkers to deny the SCV, but I think it's far more important to focus on denying harassment. If you take no losses from harassment, you're ALWAYS going to be ahead, no matter how early he manages to take his 3rd. | ||
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MrInocence
United States172 Posts
Can you guys recommend the strongest all-in for each matchup? I will only learn 1 all-in per matchup and see how far it takes me. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:15 MrInocence wrote: Switching to Protoss. Can you guys recommend the strongest all-in for each matchup? I will only learn 1 all-in per matchup and see how far it takes me. dont do this!!! I did this and got to masters but then all-ins dont work and my pvz currently is close to 20% and back to facing diamonds -_-. You have to learn macro at some point. But if u want to can still try. For me I did: PvZ: Immortal Zealot, hits at 8:30 with 2 immortal 1 stalker and 15 zealots. Watch sOs vs Jaedong game 4 for build order PvT: Blink stalkers on certain maps unless you scout gas first. Or this if you know your opponent is not going mech http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/446663-cj_heros-really-old-pvt-colossus-all-in PvP: 4gate can still get you far I think or 10 gate -> 3 gate or proxy 2 gate | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:29 Xinzoe wrote: dont do this!!! I did this and got to masters but then all-ins dont work and my pvz currently is close to 20% and back to facing diamonds -_-. You have to learn macro at some point. But if u want to can still try. For me I did: PvZ: Immortal Zealot, hits at 8:30 with 2 immortal 1 stalker and 15 zealots. Watch sOs vs Jaedong game 4 for build order PvT: Blink stalkers on certain maps unless you scout gas first. Or this if you know your opponent is not going mech http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/446663-cj_heros-really-old-pvt-colossus-all-in PvP: 4gate can still get you far I think or 10 gate -> 3 gate or proxy 2 gate Since he's in the US server does that mean he'll be automatically GM with these strats | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:36 Thieving Magpie wrote: Since he's in the US server does that mean he'll be automatically GM with these strats Actually no, getting to masters with cheese is harder on US. because you get cheesed in most games also. This is a bit easier on eu and kr | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:15 MrInocence wrote: Switching to Protoss. Can you guys recommend the strongest all-in for each matchup? I will only learn 1 all-in per matchup and see how far it takes me. 10gate 3gate PvP. Most people do not prepare for this type of build anymore so most games are a walkover. Either hide a probe early or mineral walk one into their base and immediately throw down 3 pylons outside of photon range when warpgate is around 2/3-3/4 done and they will both finish at around the same time. From there it is all micro. You will likely have the unit advantage so as long as you snipe their mothership core, the game is over. Even if you don't, the game should still be over in many cases as long as you warp in the correct units as soon as you are able. PvZ do immortal/sentry. There's several openings into it that you can do. I do 1gate expand into it because of the recent trend of Zergs sending in Zerglings in early to try and slow the expand. Just make sure to check for proxy hatch at your natural at about 14-16 supply because lots of Zergs have been doing that after it was done on GSL. The only time you should lose up until Master is if Zerg does something wonky and you don't scout it with hallucinations (say 2 base muta, crazy fast hydras, or swarmhost nydus stuff) or you screw up and take poor engagements or get supply blocked. It is tough to do on some maps, like cross positions Frost or any positions on Alterzim, but it is borderline broken on others (vertical or horizontal positions on Frost is pretty good. Overgrowth going through that narrow area near the third can be pretty strong. On Merry Go Round you skip the third and go straight into the natural and forcefield both ramps, kill the natural, go into the main, forcefield that ramp, kill the main, and if they haven't left by then, just recall home and go for round 2 a bit later to finish them off. It's insanely good on Sejong if you go through the back rocks to the natural. You can easily forcefield off the main ramp, and with about 3-4 forcefields, completely split the natural in half.) For PvT, Blink is still good on a couple maps. Outside of that I don't know. Squirtle's proxy immortal all-in build was pretty cool. That might be something to consider. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:48 Xinzoe wrote: Actually no, getting to masters with cheese is harder on US. because you get cheesed in most games also. This is a bit easier on eu and kr lol burn? | ||
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Gianttt
Netherlands194 Posts
On April 23 2014 06:12 Ben... wrote: 10gate 3gate PvP. Most people do not prepare for this type of build anymore so most games are a walkover. Either hide a probe early or mineral walk one into their base and immediately throw down 3 pylons outside of photon range when warpgate is around 2/3-3/4 done and they will both finish at around the same time. From there it is all micro. You will likely have the unit advantage so as long as you snipe their mothership core, the game is over. Even if you don't, the game should still be over in many cases as long as you warp in the correct units as soon as you are able. PvZ do immortal/sentry. There's several openings into it that you can do. I do 1gate expand into it because of the recent trend of Zergs sending in Zerglings in early to try and slow the expand. Just make sure to check for proxy hatch at your natural at about 14-16 supply because lots of Zergs have been doing that after it was done on GSL. The only time you should lose up until Master is if Zerg does something wonky and you don't scout it with hallucinations (say 2 base muta, crazy fast hydras, or swarmhost nydus stuff) or you screw up and take poor engagements or get supply blocked. It is tough to do on some maps, like cross positions Frost or any positions on Alterzim, but it is borderline broken on others (vertical or horizontal positions on Frost is pretty good. Overgrowth going through that narrow area near the third can be pretty strong. On Merry Go Round you skip the third and go straight into the natural and forcefield both ramps, kill the natural, go into the main, forcefield that ramp, kill the main, and if they haven't left by then, just recall home and go for round 2 a bit later to finish them off. It's insanely good on Sejong if you go through the back rocks to the natural. You can easily forcefield off the main ramp, and with about 3-4 forcefields, completely split the natural in half.) For PvT, Blink is still good on a couple maps. Outside of that I don't know. Squirtle's proxy immortal all-in build was pretty cool. That might be something to consider. PvP 10 gates are really good, because they are unexpected. Last weekend I did it in a tournament, were I opened with a 10 gate with 1 zealot and 2 stalkers, and just played greedy behind (expand and tech before gates). The opponent thought I would do a 3/4 gate all-in, but I didn't. So you don't have to do it as an all-in, you can actually play macro out of it too. PvZ Agree, pretty strong. get RECKED. PvT Squirtle stole it from me, I have been doing that build forever. It's really good because you can do either a lot of immortals with sentries and bust their expand, or you can make a prism together with 1-2 immortals and some sentries, and forcefield the ramp so his units can't go back inside, and you win the game with good control. Try it, it's really good! I think Blink isn't good anymore on most of the maps that are in the ladder map pool now, but on maps like Frost and Alterzim they still work. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
I'm honestly getting really sick of toss, I don't think they're that strong anymore and sadly I've been playing zerg over on EU now because of it. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 23 2014 20:25 shivver wrote: is there any situation in pvt where you shouldn't build a msc? Had a gas first floating factory into a widow mine while he double bunkered my nexus.. I'm honestly getting really sick of toss, I don't think they're that strong anymore and sadly I've been playing zerg over on EU now because of it. Perhaps the only time to skip a MSC are when going FFE or when going for a super early tech in PvP. Otherwise, the MSC is always always always going to be better than anything else you can spend your gas on in that point in time. Best way to avoid cheesy games like that is simply to get a better pylon spread going and scout around your base better; as long as the MSC stays alive, photon overcharge will completely shut down any pressure. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
I actually went robo before stalker, and the observer still wasn't nearly in time :/ | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
first of all I am sorry to annoy you with this question or more like a request. I havent been playing Starcraft for almost a year and half I was top dia/low masters protoss in WoL and I just bought a hots few days ago but obviously my builds are out of date. I was wondering if you could give me some insight on what kind of builds are being played nowadays. I am really struggling with PVT and PVZ especially. I was used to open up with Creator´s double forge opening but it just doenst work for me anymore (maybe I need to fix my mechanics and macro). In PVZ I always opened up with FFE but it looks like most of ladder maps are kinda hostile towards that opening and some 1 GATE into FE hybrids so far put me in very bad eco shape. Any feedback will be really appreciated. Have a nice day and wish you good luck in playing! | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Tharkun
France43 Posts
Maybe I've fallen back in the metagame, I don't watch as much SC2 as I used to, but is chargelot/archon/HT dead in PvT ? Widow mines are now popular due to their buff and it's just impossible to kill them efficiently with chargelots. Should i throw these builds out the window and go back from scratch ? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 25 2014 04:46 Tharkun wrote: Hi guys. Maybe I've fallen back in the metagame, I don't watch as much SC2 as I used to, but is chargelot/archon/HT dead in PvT ? Widow mines are now popular due to their buff and it's just impossible to kill them efficiently with chargelots. Should i throw these builds out the window and go back from scratch ? Kind of. It's hard to say if it's necessarily "no longer viable", but it's very very difficult to deal with and many Protosses are switching back to colossus openings. I would say the robo-less variants of templar builds are completely dead though...GOTTA GET DAT DETECTION! If you played the style that Teoita wrote about in his 2 Base Templar guide, you should be in decent shape though; just know that it might be a little harder to execute now. | ||
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