EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 258
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
It's definitely not as strong as before, but imo robo/tempar is still viable. Not having detection on the other hand is really, really fcking hard and i dont recommend doing it. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 27 2014 00:09 LikeTheSnow wrote: Is the immo/archon/cargelots composition still viable in PvP? And if yes, why choose it instead of colossi? The viability of either style heavily depends on the map. Generally speaking, IAC works better on wide, open maps while colossi work better on choky maps. Perhaps the biggest reason that colossi have been more popular in recent months has had to do with the map pool being full of smaller, choky maps (Heavy Rain, Yeonsu, Polar Night, and Frost to some degree) as well as the resurgence of 1-base plays. With 1-gate FE in remission, it's a little more intuitive to go into colossus since you are already tech heavy and low on gateways on one base. Play around with it, see what works best for you. | ||
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the caz dog
Australia17 Posts
I find that I play a too passive style to macro in PvZ, so I've decided to go all-in every game. I find no joy in playing against Swarm Hosts and Mutas; I'd rather the game be over before then! I've had some success with the Tasteless build (4 gate Zealot into DT into 7-gate Blink), but I was interested in hearing about any other all-ins that are doing well at the moment. In particular, any builds that don't rely too much on Forcefield would be great. Thanks! | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/414359-the-man-train-immortal-zealot-pvz-all-in | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
You can't really do any early pressure, no 3rd to attack. You can't really take an early 3rd either because 1 round of lings kills it... I'm at a loss here. High-ish Diamond player playing against guys who are 11x Masters etc. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 28 2014 23:20 DinoMight wrote: How are you guys dealing with Z who take their third base super late, drone up really high on 2 bases so you can't really deny econ/tech, and then just flood lings/roaches/whatever to deny your third while they double expand and tech behind it? You can't really do any early pressure, no 3rd to attack. You can't really take an early 3rd either because 1 round of lings kills it... I'm at a loss here. High-ish Diamond player playing against guys who are 11x Masters etc. 2-2-2 destroys that kind of play. Tbh, just take your third a little bit later with colossus or blink and you should be good. Imo, 2-base tech for Zerg is absolutely horrible; all the Protoss player needs to do is just play a little more cautiously. EDIT: Actually, think of it this way: If you take your 3rd base later, you'll be on equal tech, equal bases, and equal army with the Zerg, which is incredibly favored for the Protoss  . | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 28 2014 23:31 SC2John wrote: 2-2-2 destroys that kind of play. Tbh, just take your third a little bit later with colossus or blink and you should be good. Imo, 2-base tech for Zerg is absolutely horrible; all the Protoss player needs to do is just play a little more cautiously. EDIT: Actually, think of it this way: If you take your 3rd base later, you'll be on equal tech, equal bases, and equal army with the Zerg, which is incredibly favored for the Protoss .My problem is whenever I go for 2/2/2 they go Muta. What's tough about this style of play from them is they're relying 100% on Zerglings for so long that they build up a decent bank to spam whatever tech you're weak against at the moment while double expanding. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
Beautiful PvP | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
On April 29 2014 07:11 Gamlet wrote: Beautiful PvP Video set to private Q_Q | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 29 2014 00:28 Teoita wrote: 2/2/2 should hit before mutas pop. Mass ling styles are annoying indeed, but i feel like if you execute correctly your 2base timing you should be able to punish them for it. Back when 2/2/2 was really popular i actually used to keep a probe on the mpa, and do it reactively (to great success) whenever i saw a late third base. I agree. It should hit either before the mutas pop or before they can manage to produce enough mutas on two bases. You should have like ~9 sentries/12ish stalkers versus MAYBE 10 mutas and 3 more popping out every 40 seconds. Not scary at all as long as your FF are good and you don't get yourself completely surrounded by lings. Colossus/blink stalker is the best middle-ground tech to go in the mid game. It does well against roach/hydra, swarm hosts, and can deflect mutas for long enough to get phoenixes out. If you're truly worried about tech switches, this composition is your best bet. Just keep the scouting up and start counterattacking with zealots if he continues to pressure a lot with just a lot of lings and nothing else. You always have to remember that the tradeoff for Zerg is that their larva count sucks when going for an ultra late third. They can have SOME tech units up (speedroaches, mutas, hydras, SH, whatever), but they really just can't have a TON of units, meaning it's always pretty good to trade units. It's much different from the 3-base Zerg where you have to engage cost-efficiently or your opponent can just keep flooding roaches the entire game and slowly kill you; he just doesn't have the larva for it before ~12:00. | ||
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
thx.I fix link. And another amazeing pvp in this map | ||
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foxCode
United Kingdom6 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/247rrh/still_having_roach_hydra_problems/ I have a high diamond Zerg practice partner who is very fond of strong roach hydra pushes and the classic stephano roach style. I play a phoenix into colossus style and find that even with good force fields and on time macro, I just cannot get enough units to deal with the situation. It seems impossible to defend my third base on any of the maps in the pool. When the attack hits it is usually 90 supply to 140 supply and his just keeps going up, whilst mine plummets. I am almost tempted to go back to a mass void ray style because of this. What should I be doing if I scout 3 hatch and I am going nexus first. He also does this with double upgrades, I have played so many games and at a total loss. Thanks | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Why would u go gateway expand into phoenix colossus with a forge and then cannon (build order loss)? Nexus first accomplishes the same thing but a lot more economical. Look up "Dear Phoenix into colossus". First off against a 3hatch before pool, you either: Make your 3rd super early (like 6:00-6:30, its safe believe me), this is when making a forge actually makes sense. Or chronoboost out 2 stalkers and attack with your zealot and MSC, this already forces at least 20 lings if the zerg wants to save his third. Note: You can do both of the above at the same time. Ling speed finishes around 3 minute 30 seconds after zerg starts his first gas. In this case he started his gas at 4:30 which means you can do whatever stalker poke you want pre 8 minutes. Against 3hatch before pool just send your first zealot to his third to delay mining (you controlled the watchtower so this move is completely safe) Your first colossus came out at around 11:30. If your enemy went hydra ling, then you just lost. Get blink as soon as twilight finishes, delay upgrades if you have to. You made 3 sentries, If you went phoenix, you can be a bit greedy and use 100 gas for a faster robo instead of sentry. In general: Your build was semi safe, semi macro, semi aggressive. Pick only one, you tried to do everything at the same time. Highly recommend Dear's build since it's uncounterable if you have good scouting. He 4-2'd soO and 4-0'd soulkey with the build so it has to be good right? :D | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
Thanks in advance as always | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Gianttt
Netherlands194 Posts
On April 30 2014 19:47 SatedSC2 wrote: I feel like the correct response is to go for a relatively standard 1 Gate FE -> Robo opening and to then get an Immortal before getting an Observer. It seems counter-intuitive, but don't rush out an Observer to clear out Mines. You should be able to zone the initial Widow Mines out quite easily with Stalkers. Don't worry too much about saving your expansion against the 2 Rax pressure, it's a complete waste of Photon Overcharge. Save that for if they're stupid enough to come into your main. I feel like a 1 Base 4 Gate Immortal bust will kill a Terran who tries to transition into an expansion and will defend handily against Lillekanin's follow-up, much like it would in WoL if you opened 2 Gate Robo against someone who tried to deny your expansion with a regular 2 Rax. Theorycrafting based on having had Lillekanin do it to me and losing pretty badly  His build only kills greedy Protosses. You can probably hold this by going 1 gate expand > robo > +2 gates > tech, instead of adding later gateways and teching first. You can also go for stargate and scout + damage with the oracle, and make a second oracle if necessary in combination with 2 extra gateways before teching again. It's just a counter to a lot of Protoss playing greedy, but if you play safe and have good scouting, you should be able to stop it. Also: You have to know if he has an expansion or not. If you can't scout it with your probe, send out your mothership score to scout his base and check his buildings. This is also just theorycrafting, I never played versus this build. | ||
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