|
On August 26 2012 09:54 Gretorp wrote:
I disagree with your point that spores are superior over hydras. I think you haven't tested it out enough to actually substantiate that claim. I've had a little bit of experimental data with both sides and it feels as if hydras are superior in that phase of the game. Of course there are a lot of prerequisites.
I want to vent a little bit of my frustration as well in this particular forum and explain why it's so hard to take part in any sort of strategy talk. It's because people don't read anything. I see things that go down all the time in this forum that people are just disregarding. It's like talking completely different conversations but then having very polar decisions about this. It's actually infuriating.
I think that's why it's really hard for newcomers/pros to come into this section and for it to spark debate/discussion.
Some of us, like myself, have read all of it, and truly appreciate the input of people like you and Darkforce.
Seriously, just tell people to fuck off if they disagree. You guys are so much higher level that you not only could, but should, do that.
|
On August 26 2012 09:54 Gretorp wrote:
I disagree with your point that spores are superior over hydras. I think you haven't tested it out enough to actually substantiate that claim. I've had a little bit of experimental data with both sides and it feels as if hydras are superior in that phase of the game. Of course there are a lot of prerequisites.
I honestly do not understand what specific advantage a Hydralisk has over a sporecrawler with an extra infestor though. They are mobile, sure. And they definitely take out medivac drops if you can catch them before they unload. But they are expensive and can hardly be used for counter attacks to take advantage of the fact that you just killed off a medivac early on. In the midgame they are only really useful against this drop play. Not to mention, if the terran sees your hydralisks and turns around, you just invested gas into something that will not help past a certain timing when tanks eventually come out, whereas infestors do help in your army.
On August 26 2012 09:54 Gretorp wrote:
I want to vent a little bit of my frustration as well in this particular forum and explain why it's so hard to take part in any sort of strategy talk. It's because people don't read anything. I see things that go down all the time in this forum that people are just disregarding. It's like talking completely different conversations but then having very polar decisions about this. It's actually infuriating.
I think that's why it's really hard for newcomers/pros to come into this section and for it to spark debate/discussion.
It is generally hard for any discussion strategy wise to happen because most of the users on this board are in vastly different skill levels. Everyone wants to have the right answer while in most cases there are multiple shades to a question.
I understand your frustration, because it is something you will have a lot here if you actually want to discuss strategy rather than give advice. There are a lot of people that enjoy following the discussion from the sidelines that simply don't express themselves in comments, so I tend to give focus to them.
Anybody that doesn't have any credibility build up on them is generally held to rediculous standards content and proof wise. If any person that wasn't known around here gave that post that you did, he would probably get shot down immediately or ignored. Not to mention if he said he was anything below high masters/low GM, he would simply get told that that stuff only works in masters or below. The blue post thing that was supposed to help incentivize helpful posters to be rewarded for their effort hasn't been updated in ages, which shows considering belial still hasn't gotten his yet even though he went through nigh biblical proportions of advice.
|
On August 26 2012 17:55 Chaosvuistje wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:54 Gretorp wrote:
I disagree with your point that spores are superior over hydras. I think you haven't tested it out enough to actually substantiate that claim. I've had a little bit of experimental data with both sides and it feels as if hydras are superior in that phase of the game. Of course there are a lot of prerequisites.
I honestly do not understand what specific advantage a Hydralisk has over a sporecrawler with an extra infestor though. They are mobile, sure. And they definitely take out medivac drops if you can catch them before they unload. But they are expensive and can hardly be used for counter attacks to take advantage of the fact that you just killed off a medivac early on. In the midgame they are only really useful against this drop play. Not to mention, if the terran sees your hydralisks and turns around, you just invested gas into something that will not help past a certain timing when tanks eventually come out, whereas infestors do help in your army. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:54 Gretorp wrote:
I want to vent a little bit of my frustration as well in this particular forum and explain why it's so hard to take part in any sort of strategy talk. It's because people don't read anything. I see things that go down all the time in this forum that people are just disregarding. It's like talking completely different conversations but then having very polar decisions about this. It's actually infuriating.
I think that's why it's really hard for newcomers/pros to come into this section and for it to spark debate/discussion. It is generally hard for any discussion strategy wise to happen because most of the users on this board are in vastly different skill levels. Everyone wants to have the right answer while in most cases there are multiple shades to a question. I understand your frustration, because it is something you will have a lot here if you actually want to discuss strategy rather than give advice. There are a lot of people that enjoy following the discussion from the sidelines that simply don't express themselves in comments, so I tend to give focus to them. Anybody that doesn't have any credibility build up on them is generally held to rediculous standards content and proof wise. If any person that wasn't known around here gave that post that you did, he would probably get shot down immediately or ignored. Not to mention if he said he was anything below high masters/low GM, he would simply get told that that stuff only works in masters or below. The blue post thing that was supposed to help incentivize helpful posters to be rewarded for their effort hasn't been updated in ages, which shows considering belial still hasn't gotten his yet even though he went through nigh biblical proportions of advice.
I just want to make it clear I wasn't referring to you. I'm sorry i didn't specify that earlier 
|
High masters EU here(GM level NA, but lost my account lol)
I've been going a roach hydra build in ZvT alot nowadays, and have taken alot of games off of NA grandmasters and now EU players using a drop style of hydra roach, and as such have a pretty good understanding of the role of hydralisks.
First of all I have to vehemently disagree with the notion that hydralisks are "better" than spores at dealing with drops. Yea, they deal with drops amazingly and kill medivacs like they're nothing, but the fact of the matter is spores have many better attributes which makes them more suited for the job. They don't cost supply(VERY IMPORTANT, especially when in ZvT Hydra roach style you need all hydras you can get fighting), and they don't cost gas.
For hydralisks to be truly effective as a drop defense would require you having 2-4 hydralisks at key areas of the map. Thats 4-8 supply (x the number of spots) that is used there, when 0 supply and X minerals would suffice. It's not really a matter of effectiveness, as hydras are efficient. It's that its not optimal.
I also don't actually have a problem with tanks, as I just spread all my shit out, and also am dropping with hydralisks/roaches all over the place, which gradually eliminates/get to pick off stray tanks. Leading with roaches, dropping a good amount of hydras on the other side to flank, is ideal enough to deal with tanks. And you should be fighting usually on creep anyway, depending on how good your creep spread is.
The reason I incorporate drops is that hydralisk drops are AMAZING AMAZING good, even better than marine drops (although more fragile). With good pick-up and repositioning micro (like how a terran controls his drops), you can pick off tons of SCVs. Ironically, terran players are probably the worst at dealing with drops, at least ZvT. I personally believe its because they are just not used to the severe damage hydralisk drops can do.
Going drops does several things:
- Adds more mobility to your hydra roach army, and you can quickly reposition and strike at vulneralble areas of the Terran base.
- Forces them eventually to make turrets, and who wants to make turrets vs a hydra roach army?
- Keeps them in their base while you get a fourth/transition out.
- Because your spreading terran out, his units move out of position. Many times you can pick off stray units/make a run for the third than load and leave
- I cannot stress how good hydralisk drops are. The DPS of hydras allows them to kill(i think 2 shot) scvs and with 4 hydras thats like 7 scvs gone in 5 seconds. Dropping several places just crushes most terrans.
- ITS SO FUN
As a final note, I agree with Darkforce that there are other good alternatives to hydra roach. While hydra roach is unique, fun, and can be very very effective, its not as safe or standard as other builds, which if we start using hydras more, than terrans will learn how to deal with hydra roach. You cannot stay hydra roach, so you always transition out. Most you can do is go to 200-200 and make a push, but by that time they usually have 4-6 tanks, which is good enough to last until they max out and kill your inefficient supply army.
Sorry if I am confusing, just thought I would share my thoughts.
|
On August 27 2012 01:14 Pandain wrote:The reason I incorporate drops is that hydralisk drops are AMAZING AMAZING good, even better than marine drops (although more fragile). With good pick-up and repositioning micro (like how a terran controls his drops), you can pick off tons of SCVs. Ironically, terran players are probably the worst at dealing with drops, at least ZvT. I personally believe its because they are just not used to the severe damage hydralisk drops can do. Going drops does several things: - Adds more mobility to your hydra roach army, and you can quickly reposition and strike at vulneralble areas of the Terran base.
- Forces them eventually to make turrets, and who wants to make turrets vs a hydra roach army?
- Keeps them in their base while you get a fourth/transition out.
- Because your spreading terran out, his units move out of position. Many times you can pick off stray units/make a run for the third than load and leave
- I cannot stress how good hydralisk drops are. The DPS of hydras allows them to kill(i think 2 shot) scvs and with 4 hydras thats like 7 scvs gone in 5 seconds. Dropping several places just crushes most terrans.
- ITS SO FUN
As a final note, I agree with Darkforce that there are other good alternatives to hydra roach. While hydra roach is unique, fun, and can be very very effective, its not as safe or standard as other builds, which if we start using hydras more, than terrans will learn how to deal with hydra roach. You cannot stay hydra roach, so you always transition out. Most you can do is go to 200-200 and make a push, but by that time they usually have 4-6 tanks, which is good enough to last until they max out and kill your inefficient supply army. Sorry if I am confusing, just thought I would share my thoughts.
I'm intrigued by this part. I've always felt that Hydra's were good at raiding bases because they do damage fast, but I don't go for any hydra based play anymore in ZvT or ZvP so I don't have any experience with that. I have played around with drops in ZvP, and did some much earlier in ZvZ before I decided to perfect my mutalisk play, but never in ZvT.
I'm wondering if I can incorporate them into my lategame army. I don't tend to go for heavy infestor-broodlord play so I'm sure I can find a spot for the gas requirement. They can be placed out of planetary range so dropping them behind the mineral line can be a real pain for far away bases once it gets to the real late lategame, especially on maps like antiga.
A few questions, do you think the hydra range upgrade is neccesary if you're just using it for dropping? Because it is kind of an expensive upgrade for just an extra 1 range. I'll try and fiddle around with hydra drops, you inspired me enough to spike my interest.
Thanks for the input, really appreciated!
|
Hydras are painfully weak. Like the one terran mentioned, when he faces roach-hydra it doesn't matter what units he makes he just wins. Hydras die to everything. Easily. Their DPS is not that great when you consider they are only effective at killing things that aren't attacking them. If they are not being attacked they can put out some pretty heavy power, but that power is so quickly negated by anything that attacks it...because it just dies. Instantly. No more dps.
Note on drop play: The investment of hydralisks drops COULD be very effective but take into consideration how heavy of an investment you are making. Cost: Hydra Den, Range upgrade (presumably), OL speed, OL transportation, and the cost of each hydra.
Potential reward: Death and destruction in mineral lines / possibly sniping tech buildings.
The risk: The terran defends and your hydras just die and you pretty much lose because you can't really transition out of this as you already committed too much gas that could have gone into spire tech, infestor tech, banelings, etc.. already invested too much in something too gimmicky it is pretty much GG if it doesn't work.
|
On August 27 2012 03:39 kmillz wrote:
Hydras are painfully weak. Like the one terran mentioned, when he faces roach-hydra it doesn't matter what units he makes he just wins. Hydras die to everything. Easily. Their DPS is not that great when you consider they are only effective at killing things that aren't attacking them. If they are not being attacked they can put out some pretty heavy power, but that power is so quickly negated by anything that attacks it...because it just dies. Instantly. No more dps.
The reason why hydras are so effective at the moment is because of the terran metagame. Terrans go one of these things:
- Hellion Banshee into third. Roach Hydra can hit a good timing to deny third while securing own.
- Hellion Banshee into mech. Roach hydra drop can outposition mech, or at least force a later game
The common theme being Hellion banshee. Going 2 base hydra (I get a macro hatch early on, wall off to defend vs mass hellions), negates banshee tech, so terran has effectively done no damage and wasted a whole bunch of resources in useless starport tech.
Getting like 5-7 hydras, securing third, then making roaches and hitting a good timing is an effective ZvT strat.
And as for drop tech, I don't think you understand the unexplored potential of them. Have you ever dealt with a hydra drop? With pick-up micro you can't just send like 5 marines and a maruder. You have to send like 10, and even then I can half kite them with overlord dropping, and hydras rip apart marines.
Now imagine I'm dropping with both of them. Saying that I can lose them(and always am I careful) is bad reason because you could say that for any harrasment, terran medivacs, protoss warp prisms, even ling runbys. Since I'm already going hydra I have the hydra tech, its just spending 300-300 for OL speed + drop to make my army so much more effective.
|
Pandain I would really love some replays to learn from, do you have any you're willing to post here?
|
On August 27 2012 04:21 Stardroid wrote:
Pandain I would really love some replays to learn from, do you have any you're willing to post here?
I'll post them for you, finding replays and watching Taeja Hero :p
Unfortunatetely don't have any vs well known players, usually I like to try to play standard vs them to learn from them. If I face a well known terran, I'll go hydra next time.
Just a couple notes about my play:
I don't believe you can take a fast third and go hydra without dying to any push, so what I do instead is play the game out BW style. That is, I make a really quick macro hatch(if I'm playing vs CC first or 1 rax FE), and delay queens and instead pump drones from 3 hatches. It gets my production going and helps to wall off.
I think its the only way you can go hydra, and get +1 ranged and drops and stuff, then aim for a timing while taking a third.
http://drop.sc/243564
http://drop.sc/243563
The first one is a weird game, as I accidently 14 pooled so I put on some agression vs a CC first. But it stabilized into a normal game, at least relatively, and is the best example of the strength of drops. Well hydra drops.
Because the second game is verses blue flame hellion into mech, so I stuck roaches for a long time.
|
Excellent!
Quick thing - when you mention dying to any push, wouldn't zerglings sort out anything around 10 mins? (I macro hatch the same time as my third and make lings around 8.30), or do you mean when hydras have come out?
Stardroid,
space
|
On August 27 2012 03:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 03:39 kmillz wrote:
Hydras are painfully weak. Like the one terran mentioned, when he faces roach-hydra it doesn't matter what units he makes he just wins. Hydras die to everything. Easily. Their DPS is not that great when you consider they are only effective at killing things that aren't attacking them. If they are not being attacked they can put out some pretty heavy power, but that power is so quickly negated by anything that attacks it...because it just dies. Instantly. No more dps. The reason why hydras are so effective at the moment is because of the terran metagame. Terrans go one of these things: - Hellion Banshee into third. Roach Hydra can hit a good timing to deny third while securing own.
- Hellion Banshee into mech. Roach hydra drop can outposition mech, or at least force a later game
The common theme being Hellion banshee. Going 2 base hydra (I get a macro hatch early on, wall off to defend vs mass hellions), negates banshee tech, so terran has effectively done no damage and wasted a whole bunch of resources in useless starport tech. Getting like 5-7 hydras, securing third, then making roaches and hitting a good timing is an effective ZvT strat. And as for drop tech, I don't think you understand the unexplored potential of them. Have you ever dealt with a hydra drop? With pick-up micro you can't just send like 5 marines and a maruder. You have to send like 10, and even then I can half kite them with overlord dropping, and hydras rip apart marines. Now imagine I'm dropping with both of them. Saying that I can lose them(and always am I careful) is bad reason because you could say that for any harrasment, terran medivacs, protoss warp prisms, even ling runbys. Since I'm already going hydra I have the hydra tech, its just spending 300-300 for OL speed + drop to make my army so much more effective.
The problem still lies in the hydra's mobility. If caught with their pants down they just die and spit out 1 or 2 last times before evaporating. You are suggesting that the hydras are not just part of your drop but also your unit composition? I have never seen a straight up fight go favorably for the person who has $ invested in hydras in an even cost battle vs Toss or Terran. Toss just get collosus and they are wiped out. Terran get tanks or bio and handle them quite well too. I am open-minded too new ideas but I think the hydra's just lack a place in the core of a good Zerg army
|
Roach Hydra can work if you are using it in a timing against Terren going fast third with mech but until HOTS and Vypers I think otherwise its pretty meh and tanks eat it alive.
|
Wow, surprised to see my old post still has some decent discussion going on.
I gave up around page 3, wrote off the TL community and just continued on my way, happy to keep my secrets rather than share with a world that isn't interested.
My roach/hydra play has evolved to the point where it is basically my standard build for mid-game ZvT. Roach/hydra offers many options through drop tech, burrow tech, and the massive creep spread that being offensive allows for. I have the freedom to integrate infestors or banelings as desired, and can take as much of the map as I want, generally uncontested.
I feel comfortable saying it is an absolute build-order win vs hellion/banshee. To the point where I can usually outright kill a Terran if he so much as gets cloak for his banshees, and even if I somehow botch my attack, I am usually massively ahead in econ anyway, upgrading to hive on 4 base by the 20 minute mark.
By far, the best thing Terran can do in response to the build is to pump out siege tanks like crazy off 2 base and use their range to take their 3rd. Getting medivacs too early is usually death. Taking the 3rd too early is usually death. Going mech is usually death.
Roach hydra is definitely kicking lots of ass in ZvT right now for me. I will share more if people want, but I am not really interested in debating the viability of the build. I couldn't care less what you think, I KNOW it works, at least against top-level Masters Terrans.
|
On October 12 2012 01:20 Jermstuddog wrote:
Wow, surprised to see my old post still has some decent discussion going on.
I gave up around page 3, wrote off the TL community and just continued on my way, happy to keep my secrets rather than share with a world that isn't interested.
My roach/hydra play has evolved to the point where it is basically my standard build for mid-game ZvT. Roach/hydra offers many options through drop tech, burrow tech, and the massive creep spread that being offensive allows for. I have the freedom to integrate infestors or banelings as desired, and can take as much of the map as I want, generally uncontested.
I feel comfortable saying it is an absolute build-order win vs hellion/banshee. To the point where I can usually outright kill a Terran if he so much as gets cloak for his banshees, and even if I somehow botch my attack, I am usually massively ahead in econ anyway, upgrading to hive on 4 base by the 20 minute mark.
By far, the best thing Terran can do in response to the build is to pump out siege tanks like crazy off 2 base and use their range to take their 3rd. Getting medivacs too early is usually death. Taking the 3rd too early is usually death. Going mech is usually death.
Roach hydra is definitely kicking lots of ass in ZvT right now for me. I will share more if people want, but I am not really interested in debating the viability of the build. I couldn't care less what you think, I KNOW it works, at least against top-level Masters Terrans.
Interesting strat. It's always frustrating to me that anyone who brings up an idea outside the current meta is immediately shot down because "pros don't do it." Pros didn't really play BL/infestor 6-8 months ago either, yet that's the current meta now, and it's considered OP by many. Also, how many of us are aiming to be pro to think that only playing pro strats is the way to improve in this game and have fun?
Instead, players should be focused on exploring the +/- of alternative strategies and playing them WELL, if it has some fundamental advantages. As you said this strat seems risky vs heavy siege-tank play but is good for aggressive play and drops (same as in ZvP; you HAVE to be super-aggressive with roach/hydra and prevent an uber-toss deathball critical mass).
Do you think hydra speed in HOTS will have a big effect on this style of play? I am experimenting with some roach/ling/hydra play with triple evo into ultra/festor/hydra/ling in ZvP, but may be worth toying with in ZvT as well. Hydras and ultras compliment each other pretty well because ultras are so beefy and have a lot higher DPS than roaches, but hydras don't really have the speed to keep up with ultra/ling as of now without insane creep spread.
|
On October 12 2012 02:12 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 01:20 Jermstuddog wrote:
Wow, surprised to see my old post still has some decent discussion going on.
I gave up around page 3, wrote off the TL community and just continued on my way, happy to keep my secrets rather than share with a world that isn't interested.
My roach/hydra play has evolved to the point where it is basically my standard build for mid-game ZvT. Roach/hydra offers many options through drop tech, burrow tech, and the massive creep spread that being offensive allows for. I have the freedom to integrate infestors or banelings as desired, and can take as much of the map as I want, generally uncontested.
I feel comfortable saying it is an absolute build-order win vs hellion/banshee. To the point where I can usually outright kill a Terran if he so much as gets cloak for his banshees, and even if I somehow botch my attack, I am usually massively ahead in econ anyway, upgrading to hive on 4 base by the 20 minute mark.
By far, the best thing Terran can do in response to the build is to pump out siege tanks like crazy off 2 base and use their range to take their 3rd. Getting medivacs too early is usually death. Taking the 3rd too early is usually death. Going mech is usually death.
Roach hydra is definitely kicking lots of ass in ZvT right now for me. I will share more if people want, but I am not really interested in debating the viability of the build. I couldn't care less what you think, I KNOW it works, at least against top-level Masters Terrans. Interesting strat. It's always frustrating to me that anyone who brings up an idea outside the current meta is immediately shot down because "pros don't do it." Pros didn't really play BL/infestor 6-8 months ago either, yet that's the current meta now, and it's considered OP by many. Also, how many of us are aiming to be pro to think that only playing pro strats is the way to improve in this game and have fun? Instead, players should be focused on exploring the +/- of alternative strategies and playing them WELL, if it has some fundamental advantages. As you said this strat seems risky vs heavy siege-tank play but is good for aggressive play and drops (same as in ZvP; you HAVE to be super-aggressive with roach/hydra and prevent an uber-toss deathball critical mass). Do you think hydra speed in HOTS will have a big effect on this style of play? I am experimenting with some roach/ling/hydra play with triple evo into ultra/festor/hydra/ling in ZvP, but may be worth toying with in ZvT as well. Hydras and ultras compliment each other pretty well because ultras are so beefy and have a lot higher DPS than roaches, but hydras don't really have the speed to keep up with ultra/ling as of now without insane creep spread.
I am not a fan of hydras in ZvP specifically due to the Colossus and Force Fields. There just doesn't seem to be any room for Hydras to function in that MU. I don't see speed fixing this.
Early game, Force Fields chop hydras up too badly for them to really topple over anything Protoss has. Add that up with Hydras being rather mediocre vs basic gateway units and getting utterly crushed by even 2 or 3 Colossus, and going Hydra kind of puts you on a clock with no way to beat it. There are just too many obstacles in the MU.
ZvT is very different because the only major Hydra-deterrent is the Siege Tank, and, currently, going for fast Siege Tanks is not in vogue. People are specifically staying away from Siege Tanks to give themselves more mobility, faster expansions, and raw army strength. Better yet, the standard TvZ play has become FE into hellion/banshee, which, as I've said, becomes a huge BO win for the Zerg.
I will say that hydras are still on a clock in ZvT. They are only good until Terran gets 2/2 bio with siege tanks. At that point, they become basically worthless. Still, there is a LOT of breathing room before that becomes the case. Plenty of time to play scrappy styles, take multiple expansions, and tech up to T3. The hardest part of the entire style is managing that transition from Roach/Hydra to ling/infestor/ultra or broods. If you trade your army too early, you get caught with just a bunch of lings and infestors vs a massive terran army. If you trade away too late, T pushes in with 3/3 while your Ultras are still building and there's nothing you can do about it.
Luckily, games tend not to make it that far, I usually win in the mid-game 
|
|
|
On October 12 2012 01:20 Jermstuddog wrote:
Wow, surprised to see my old post still has some decent discussion going on.
I gave up around page 3, wrote off the TL community and just continued on my way, happy to keep my secrets rather than share with a world that isn't interested.
My roach/hydra play has evolved to the point where it is basically my standard build for mid-game ZvT. Roach/hydra offers many options through drop tech, burrow tech, and the massive creep spread that being offensive allows for. I have the freedom to integrate infestors or banelings as desired, and can take as much of the map as I want, generally uncontested.
I feel comfortable saying it is an absolute build-order win vs hellion/banshee. To the point where I can usually outright kill a Terran if he so much as gets cloak for his banshees, and even if I somehow botch my attack, I am usually massively ahead in econ anyway, upgrading to hive on 4 base by the 20 minute mark.
By far, the best thing Terran can do in response to the build is to pump out siege tanks like crazy off 2 base and use their range to take their 3rd. Getting medivacs too early is usually death. Taking the 3rd too early is usually death. Going mech is usually death.
Roach hydra is definitely kicking lots of ass in ZvT right now for me. I will share more if people want, but I am not really interested in debating the viability of the build. I couldn't care less what you think, I KNOW it works, at least against top-level Masters Terrans.
Can you post some replays. I feel like this would be really strong vs hellion banshee opener and am looking for ways to punish terrans before they transition.
|
This is really interesting...I remember reading this strategy before but it has been awhile. It's funny how the meta dictates what strategies are viable in an almost cyclical manner. I wonder if some of the older build concepts might work again if they were adapted for a modern macro game.
|
My phone died, and I use it for my Blizzard authenticator, so I can't log in right now.
That being said, I will just have a little more work looking through recent replays. I should have plenty of good examples. I will post a few reps by the end of the night.
edit:
Here's a few replays, I can't give much depth because I can't view them right now, but they all involve Roach/Hydra, I know that much.
This one appears to go on for over 20 minutes and involve Brood Lords from what I can see, hopefully it's half way decent.
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=21026
This one is under 9 minutes with me winning. Looks like I just overrun him?
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=21027
This one ends around 12 minutes. Looks like the first attack doesn't quite kill him, so I reload and go back in with a 2/2 attack to finish the job.
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=21028
Give me a few days and I'll be happy to get more detailed, specific replays if needed.
Some interesting facts from SC2gears:
Since the beginning of September, I have played 61 ZvTs with a 63% win rate.
Average game length is 12:29
3 games with a 33% win rate <5 minutes
18 games with 100% win rate in the 5-10 range
26 games with a 53% win rate in the 10-15 min range
9 games with a 33% win rate in the 15-20 min range
5 games with a 60% win rate at 20+
As I have said in above posts, I am still working on my transition to T3 (why the 15-20 range is notably bad), but as it gets better, so too will my win rate.
|
i actually had so much success with this build thanks, its because terrans are marine heavy and they dont know that you need a lot of tanks, i can upload reps if anyone interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
