EPT[G] Roach Hydra in ZvT - Page 6
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Maybe a Duck
Germany53 Posts
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agahamsorr0w
Netherlands359 Posts
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Stardroid
United Kingdom159 Posts
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On December 24 2012 01:53 Stardroid wrote: Erm so does anyone have a link to any of this content, such as the game vs marineking (is he boxer) etc? it's exciting! Stephano vs MKP U're welcome  His build is : gasless 4 queens, 2 gas, roach warren (dont make roaches at the moment unless you're forced to) lair double evo 2 more gas, start 1 missile attack 1 carapace, take the third, keep droning untill you have a full 50 drones on 2 base Roach speed should line up with 1-1, start pumping roaches once you have full saturation on 2 base, go for 1-1-speed timing, as your push go through the middle of the map, drone your third like a madman, add hydra den and 2-2 Pump a mix of roach/hydra according to your gas and mineral income, go for another timing on 2-2 For the end of the game :+ Show Spoiler + And from there, stephano had killed the third of MKP so he kept pumping units out of 5 hatch to hold the inevitable all-in from mkp and won But MKP started with double rax, it could've altered the build of stephano, cant be sure. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
Just to give some of my impressions on the recent Stephano roach +1+1 speed timing into hydra 2-2 : :IT IS AMAZING LOL Basically i am 8-0 with it in various situations as different as failed 11-11 or 3 OC double ups super greedy builds. I will just give a few thoughts about it. I'm thinking about making a guide. - First of all, it seems like it requires a very specific answer from the terran to not outright die to it. I can think of only two builds that would hold the attack without taking game ending damage : - it would be 1 rax expo double gas factory CC then 4 helions and straight into siege tank - or the same build but with multiple rax with marauder production and many bunkers after the helions. Which means that it does not look like any build including banshee and 3 cc would hold the first push without taking game ending damage basically. By game ending damage i mean the death of every scv at the natural (20+) and possibly huge damage taken in the main aswell. I think it's also pretty easy to hide the build to the terran. The only things he can see is 3-4 roaches to push back helions and a not so fast third. He wont see any speedlings but it makes sens after a gasless opening, he will see double evo but could be lingfestor. If a banshee enters your base or if he scan, he will still see nothing that could be really telling, only the absence of infestor or spire but he could've missed it with his banshee/scan. And since he needs to clearly prepares for the push it makes it really hard to hold for him. He basically has to guess. Depending on the map, the terran can or can not take his third after the first push and before the second (with hydras and roaches 2-2). It has to be a third defendable with tanks that will defend the natural as well, like in cloud kingdom or ohana. What happened in every game was that i ended up ahead with like 70 drones on 3-4 bases against 35ish drones on two bases for the terran. Most of the time I couldnt end up the game right there with the second push but I had to transition to broodfestor because the terran was turtling on 3 base with too many tanks, even if he had obviously lost the game (50-70 supply behind me, 3 base vs 5). | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On December 25 2012 11:16 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Stephano also beat Mvp 2-0 in Iron Squid using this style. Check Day9's youtube for most recent Iron Squid replays. link? didnt find it | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
Couldn't find it either, maybe not uploaded yet. Replay pack is up though, should be in it http://www.ironsquid.tv/a-big-replay-pack-for-christmas | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
Oh, sorry, it's not up yet, but you can find the VODs at the Iron Squid channel on Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/ironsquid | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
Had he skipped the banshee in favor of earlier siege tank he would've hold I think. My execution was far from optimal (especially when i lose time targetting the OC and the starport). I wonder if, with proper execution, I could not have outright killed him with the first push. Some thought on terran builds : I think those 3 oc helion banshee double ups builds are ultimately greedy, they are trying to do everything at the same time, greedy eco, greedy tech, greedy ups. They could get away with it before because zergs used to go for slowroaches/ling/bane attack with different variations, and those attack hitted right as the banshee and helions were ready but the upgrades and extra barracks or factory didnt start yet. That 1-1 speedroach timing come later, is more powerfull, but the terran is still stuck with mostly helion banshee, his upgrades and extra production has not kicked in yet. Oh, and +1 carapace speedroaches do not really care about banshees. I also like it more because the upgrades, compared to hatchery tech agression, means you have an easier transition. It still has to do damage, though, or the terran will get too far ahead in eco. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
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Entteri
Finland108 Posts
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
On December 28 2012 12:04 Entteri wrote: After 2 years of calling hydra utterly useless in TvZ it is now suddenly kicking ass. I remember getting owned hard by this like a year ago while playing with MMM. Makes me wonder how this had worked pre-queenbuff because with this you would have a good reason to go roaches and make those hellions meaningless. Then again zerg was totally fine droning on 2 bases so I guess there was no real need to even think about smth like this. There's been no Hydra buff which makes me wonder if this Hydra hype will once again disappear when Terran's cotton on and start building more marauders into their compositions. I know personally I have a very large ratio of Marines to Marauders (8:1 or higher). The Hydralisk still has the same fundamental flaws it always did, this may well just be a fleeting change in the meta. | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On December 28 2012 11:47 Thalandros wrote: Definately going to try this although it'll be not a reliable build, since it requires a gasless expand. But will see if it works! Thanks! :D What are you talking about? why would a gasless expo not be reliable? You have raoches in time for helions, queens and overseers in time for cloacked shee, what else? I'd say it's even one of his strength to be gasless because the terran will be greedier, as in triple OC etc. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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paradox719
United States30 Posts
The other major weakness I see to this composition is the upgrades. When it comes time for zergs to make their tier 3 tech switch, they don't have any mêlée upgrades, which both broodlings and ultras greatly benefit from. | ||
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