EPTHas Stephano made this viable now? Or am I still a scrub who doesn't know wtf I'm talking about?
[G] Roach Hydra in ZvT - Page 5
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Has Stephano made this viable now? Or am I still a scrub who doesn't know wtf I'm talking about? | ||
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
On December 22 2012 07:40 Jermstuddog wrote: People don't always give credits to whom credit is due, especially on Starcraft II metagame. Is it cool to be a hipster yet? Has Stephano made this viable now? Or am I still a scrub who doesn't know wtf I'm talking about? It reminds me of Destiny & CatZ heavy infestor use back then... It tooks months for Dimaga to copy this style, then Stephano used it perfectly (mastered it) because he was a better player, but credit to those ROOT players. When I heard people talking about "Stephano's Infestor strategy" or "Dimaga's Infestor Ultralisks 3-3" it makes me feel bad for Destiny/CatZ. Another example is the famous "Morrow's 5 rax reapers" in the beta, Morrow didn't created this strat, but he won a major tournament back then using this strategy, that's why people remember it as Morrow's 5rax reapers. People often thinks you have to be a pro to create strategies, timing, cheeses, but it's wrong. Of course it will be perfect and efficient in Stephano or Taeja's hands, but those players are not the most creative players.. There are still things yet to be discovered in SC2, but most people thinks pro players already know everything. Wrong. | ||
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KirA_TheGreaT
France204 Posts
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 22 2012 07:40 Jermstuddog wrote: Is it cool to be a hipster yet? Has Stephano made this viable now? Or am I still a scrub who doesn't know wtf I'm talking about? Yeah it's sad to see people shoot down strats because they're not part of the current meta =/ Leads to staleness in the strats you see in various matchups. Current meta strats are obviously strong, but SC2 is a diverse game that has some strengths and weaknesses with various strats. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
I always felt like inject is the real thing that makes zerg that strong when played properly, the ability to get such high income+production super early in the game, and this build totally exploits that, the remaxing speed is ridiculous. I'd like to see a game played with this style against MMM/tanks though. | ||
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ETisME
12912 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:02 Shade_CsT wrote: People don't always give credits to whom credit is due, especially on Starcraft II metagame. It reminds me of Destiny & CatZ heavy infestor use back then... It tooks months for Dimaga to copy this style, then Stephano used it perfectly (mastered it) because he was a better player, but credit to those ROOT players. When I heard people talking about "Stephano's Infestor strategy" or "Dimaga's Infestor Ultralisks 3-3" it makes me feel bad for Destiny/CatZ. Another example is the famous "Morrow's 5 rax reapers" in the beta, Morrow didn't created this strat, but he won a major tournament back then using this strategy, that's why people remember it as Morrow's 5rax reapers. People often thinks you have to be a pro to create strategies, timing, cheeses, but it's wrong. Of course it will be perfect and efficient in Stephano or Taeja's hands, but those players are not the most creative players.. There are still things yet to be discovered in SC2, but most people thinks pro players already know everything. Wrong. dimaga used infestors before destiny, going all the way back before the infestors were buff'd. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:02 Shade_CsT wrote: People don't always give credits to whom credit is due, especially on Starcraft II metagame. It reminds me of Destiny & CatZ heavy infestor use back then... It tooks months for Dimaga to copy this style, then Stephano used it perfectly (mastered it) because he was a better player, but credit to those ROOT players. When I heard people talking about "Stephano's Infestor strategy" or "Dimaga's Infestor Ultralisks 3-3" it makes me feel bad for Destiny/CatZ. Another example is the famous "Morrow's 5 rax reapers" in the beta, Morrow didn't created this strat, but he won a major tournament back then using this strategy, that's why people remember it as Morrow's 5rax reapers. People often thinks you have to be a pro to create strategies, timing, cheeses, but it's wrong. Of course it will be perfect and efficient in Stephano or Taeja's hands, but those players are not the most creative players.. There are still things yet to be discovered in SC2, but most people thinks pro players already know everything. Wrong. At the end of the day it isn't about who made it, it's about who popularized it. That's what the history books will remember... | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:02 Shade_CsT wrote: People don't always give credits to whom credit is due, especially on Starcraft II metagame. It reminds me of Destiny & CatZ heavy infestor use back then... It tooks months for Dimaga to copy this style, then Stephano used it perfectly (mastered it) because he was a better player, but credit to those ROOT players. When I heard people talking about "Stephano's Infestor strategy" or "Dimaga's Infestor Ultralisks 3-3" it makes me feel bad for Destiny/CatZ. Another example is the famous "Morrow's 5 rax reapers" in the beta, Morrow didn't created this strat, but he won a major tournament back then using this strategy, that's why people remember it as Morrow's 5rax reapers. People often thinks you have to be a pro to create strategies, timing, cheeses, but it's wrong. Of course it will be perfect and efficient in Stephano or Taeja's hands, but those players are not the most creative players.. There are still things yet to be discovered in SC2, but most people thinks pro players already know everything. Wrong. Stephano didn't come up with the heavy infestor strategy. He came up with the fast upgraded lings instead of banes into infestor-ultralisk. He also came up with the 12 minute max-out roach strategy against protoss. Considering he also came up with his own hydra build against Terran, i think it's fair to say that he is creative. | ||
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nebula.
Sweden1431 Posts
On December 23 2012 01:09 iKill wrote: It's been known for a long time that mass roach vT, with or without hydra support, will rape a terran that doesn't have significant tanks out yet. Nothing new. Mass roach will rape MMM? wat | ||
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Dr_Jones
Norway252 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
Same thing with immortal sentry really. At equal supply, maxed armies, immortal sentry will beat pure roach/ling - but in the 10-12 min stages of the game, the zerg is often 50-60 supply up, so the toss doesn't freewin. Same thing here - if Z can consistently stay 50 food up, MMM just dies. | ||
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mynameisgreat11
599 Posts
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:02 Shade_CsT wrote: People don't always give credits to whom credit is due, especially on Starcraft II metagame. It reminds me of Destiny & CatZ heavy infestor use back then... It tooks months for Dimaga to copy this style, then Stephano used it perfectly (mastered it) because he was a better player, but credit to those ROOT players. When I heard people talking about "Stephano's Infestor strategy" or "Dimaga's Infestor Ultralisks 3-3" it makes me feel bad for Destiny/CatZ. Another example is the famous "Morrow's 5 rax reapers" in the beta, Morrow didn't created this strat, but he won a major tournament back then using this strategy, that's why people remember it as Morrow's 5rax reapers. People often thinks you have to be a pro to create strategies, timing, cheeses, but it's wrong. Of course it will be perfect and efficient in Stephano or Taeja's hands, but those players are not the most creative players.. There are still things yet to be discovered in SC2, but most people thinks pro players already know everything. Wrong. You aren't being creative if you don't master your "creation". Because it's the perfected enough creation to be used in pro settings that is important. Stephano ling/infestor was different from ROOT zergs one. Plus Stephano already used the power of infestor/broodlord when it wasn't that well known : . | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On December 23 2012 02:31 Diavlo wrote: Stephano didn't come up with the heavy infestor strategy. He came up with the fast upgraded lings instead of banes into infestor-ultralisk. He also came up with the 12 minute max-out roach strategy against protoss. Considering he also came up with his own hydra build against Terran, i think it's fair to say that he is creative. Dimaga went double upgrade ling infestor ultralisk long before stephano made it famous. He was doing it before the fungal buff. but stephano won IPL3 with it, so it got his name. Zergs everywhere were going mass roach against protoss and just using their economic lead to pummel them into the ground with pure roaches. hell, even I was doing this on ladder. kyrix vs hongun, min vs genius, min vs genius, stufff like that. Those were some of the first games were zerg was permitted to drone to 60 unattended and then just piled on pure roaches. "Stephano style" was more about refining the gas timings and roach warren timing so that you would be safe against 4 gate zealot, 7 gate, and +2 blink, and still be capable of outmuscling the toss with pure roach/ling. anyway, about roach/hydra. I've seen stephano do it twice, and both times it was Ohana. coincidence? probably not. | ||
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On December 23 2012 06:14 Oboeman wrote: Dimaga went double upgrade ling infestor ultralisk long before stephano made it famous. He was doing it before the fungal buff. but stephano won IPL3 with it, so it got his name. Zergs everywhere were going mass roach against protoss and just using their economic lead to pummel them into the ground with pure roaches. hell, even I was doing this on ladder. kyrix vs hongun, min vs genius, min vs genius, stufff like that. Those were some of the first games were zerg was permitted to drone to 60 unattended and then just piled on pure roaches. "Stephano style" was more about refining the gas timings and roach warren timing so that you would be safe against 4 gate zealot, 7 gate, and +2 blink, and still be capable of outmuscling the toss with pure roach/ling. anyway, about roach/hydra. I've seen stephano do it twice, and both times it was Ohana. coincidence? probably not. He is also doing it on cloud kingdom. Casters at HSC said he is serious with it, practicing / refining it and such. ToD also said in what I believe was Mille cup cast, or Ritmix RSL cast, that he was serious with it, something along the lines of : "it has a good potential but I haven't found the right timings yet". It's this refinement that is very hard with weird builds, so it's perfectly normal to give credit to the ones who won something with it instead of some who started to use it but not successfully enough. For people claiming that Stephano isn't creative, lol... in some old EggOne interview of Stephano, (he had not win IPL and stuff yet back then) they asked him about how he trained in order to catch up to beta/ex BW players so fast, and he said that he didn't watch pro zergs or anything, he just played a lot testing stuff to see if they worked. | ||
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