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Your keyboard should not be resting where it is easy to drift to the other side of the keyboard. For right hand mouse users, here's a more thorough guide to properly aligning your keyboard:
Sit in front of your keyboard and draw a line from your center out toward the keyboard. Make sure the your center and the keyboard center match up. Okay, now we have our starting position, and we're going to move it away from these points.
Rest your left hand out from your body, about a 90 degree angle. Just so that it extends comfortably out, wherever your hand would most like to rest. Okay, now drag the keyboard to your left until P is under your index. There's probably only the number pad in front of you now, with the rest way out to the left. This is good. Now, with P as the point of axis, rotate the keyboard's left side away from you until P and ; line up with your index. That is, until they are aligned such that curling your finger naturally, it just moves from the center of P to the center of ;.
Is your hand still in its relaxed, comfortable place? We're moving the keyboard to the hand, not the other way around.
If you finger naturally curls from P to ;, and your elbow is at a comfortable angle, and you have a little bit of wrist support, you're set so go. It should feel weird to your mind at first, but your hand should not feel strain.
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oh wow... i think sasquatch or w/e his name is, is using your hotkey layout. Gratz
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uhhh... wait... what? He didn't tell me!
Source please :D
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What are planned changes for HoTS? or more to the point, will they change the setup a lot?
I plan on focusing on learning one hotkey setup, but before chosing I'd like to know if I have to adjust it myself to accomodate HoTs, or if I can just learn it as is and then still go strong with it in HoTs.
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Ok I have made some changes. in this version I ve picked different colors for both hands and used different colors from same palette for each. I havent used completely different colors because it makes it kinda difficult to look at.
this one is for control groups, location hotkeys, and suggested control groups for each structure and unit. next one will be for command card. if you have more ideas or suggestion please let me know. I will build other templates based on this one but using different colors: purple-brown for zerg, yellow-teal for protoss etc..
FoxyMayhem and JaKaTaK, thanx for nice comments. this is little I can do for your hard work guys. I ve enjoyed darkgrid alot and I will enjoy this one too 
oh btw if you guys are planing to create custom maps for practise purposes I am up to the task of designing landscape etc.. though I am not that good at coding.
cheers
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H2amE.png)
edit:
when I upload it with imgur.com the picture quality drops drastically so I upload it here in winrar.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/89493532/DeCore tmplt.rar
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I am really starting to regret putting in 100's of games to master this hotkey setup. Sure, it may be more efficient, but because its all the buttons are now stacked on top of each other, its also much more easy to screw up. Let me give you a few examples.
I was playing a PvP, I had gone fast blink and he had gone something or other I can't really remember. But I ended up having a contain on him outside his base. One sentry for a FF, and about 10 blink stalkers. Anyways I see him coming down the ramp, and I go to FF, but just before I do he snipes of my sentry. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I just blink away and use my mobility to keep him by his natural. However, because blink and FF are the same buttons, when I went to FF, because the sentry had been killed that exact second, I ended up blinking all my stalkers into his army. Yup, that was GG.
Here's another example. I was playing a PvT, he was pushing my third, I had a mass zealot sentry HT army. Usually I simply FF his units and storm. But because now all the spells are on the same buttons, one small missclick (Having my HT's selected instead of my sentries) cause me to turn all of my HT's into archons, instead of forcefielding.
Simply put, Yes it is more efficient, but its also a lot more easier to make game losing mistakes.
Considering switching back to my old hotkeys, but I have put in nearly 200 games already and feels like A waste to give up now.
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On August 25 2012 19:46 Westy wrote:
I am really starting to regret putting in 100's of games to master this hotkey setup. Sure, it may be more efficient, but because its all the buttons are now stacked on top of each other, its also much more easy to screw up. Let me give you a few examples.
I was playing a PvP, I had gone fast blink and he had gone something or other I can't really remember. But I ended up having a contain on him outside his base. One sentry for a FF, and about 10 blink stalkers. Anyways I see him coming down the ramp, and I go to FF, but just before I do he snipes of my sentry. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I just blink away and use my mobility to keep him by his natural. However, because blink and FF are the same buttons, when I went to FF, because the sentry had been killed that exact second, I ended up blinking all my stalkers into his army. Yup, that was GG.
Here's another example. I was playing a PvT, he was pushing my third, I had a mass zealot sentry HT army. Usually I simply FF his units and storm. But because now all the spells are on the same buttons, one small missclick (Having my HT's selected instead of my sentries) cause me to turn all of my HT's into archons, instead of forcefielding.
Simply put, Yes it is more efficient, but its also a lot more easier to make game losing mistakes.
Considering switching back to my old hotkeys, but I have put in nearly 200 games already and feels like A waste to give up now.
There was a beta sign somewhere here... ouh, wait.
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On August 22 2012 13:47 FoxyMayhem wrote:
In general you should be using your layered base cams frequently. These put the camera right over the progress bar for injecting, letting you monitor it without burning a whole, prime-realestate control group for just checking injection progress.
And, as JaK mentioned, infestors need to be on a separate finger than the main army for swift mid and late-game army control.
I do like the way you're thinking. We've looked into using single-structure control groups to check progress on injections. I feel currently that the camera keys meet these needs, however, and leave those prime control groups to other tasks.
However, we may be missing something. Why have the layered base cams not sufficed for checking injection progress?
because having a single hatchery hotekyed means you can tap it and see the inejct timer without looking away from your current viewpoint.
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Which file do I download for a claw/fingertip left-handed player? The link gives me too many options... which one is which?
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So I've been using this hotkey setup for quite a while now (probably 30-35 games) and really loving it. However it came to my attention that with the new update, if you have the different units on different keys for production, you don't have to tab. For example, if I had siege tanks on u and marines on j, I could go to my hotkey w/all my production, then just hit uj and build a tank and marine -- no tabbing. With the current setup however, it's a pain to try to change everything around, but it feels like a waste of APM to keep tabbing when I know I don't have to anymore. Have you thought of implementing this functionality?
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On August 25 2012 19:46 Westy wrote:
I am really starting to regret putting in 100's of games to master this hotkey setup. Sure, it may be more efficient, but because its all the buttons are now stacked on top of each other, its also much more easy to screw up. Let me give you a few examples.
I was playing a PvP, I had gone fast blink and he had gone something or other I can't really remember. But I ended up having a contain on him outside his base. One sentry for a FF, and about 10 blink stalkers. Anyways I see him coming down the ramp, and I go to FF, but just before I do he snipes of my sentry. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I just blink away and use my mobility to keep him by his natural. However, because blink and FF are the same buttons, when I went to FF, because the sentry had been killed that exact second, I ended up blinking all my stalkers into his army. Yup, that was GG.
Here's another example. I was playing a PvT, he was pushing my third, I had a mass zealot sentry HT army. Usually I simply FF his units and storm. But because now all the spells are on the same buttons, one small missclick (Having my HT's selected instead of my sentries) cause me to turn all of my HT's into archons, instead of forcefielding.
Simply put, Yes it is more efficient, but its also a lot more easier to make game losing mistakes.
Considering switching back to my old hotkeys, but I have put in nearly 200 games already and feels like A waste to give up now.
To use this setup, you must use multiple control groups to control your army. Using 1 big one for your whole army isn't going to cut it, for the exact reasons you mentioned here. Multiple control groups would have solved both of your problems. Consider the following setup:
1 for your whole army, minus high templar
1 for your high templar
1 for your zealots (which are also included in your army CG)
1 for your stalkers (which are also included in your army CG)
2 macro CGs
the rest of your control groups can be dedicated to harass
Using only one CG for army control with this layout will likely be the cause of many mistakes, but then again, one of the main reasons we created the layout was to provide players with an easy reach to all 10 control groups.
On August 25 2012 20:54 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 13:47 FoxyMayhem wrote:
In general you should be using your layered base cams frequently. These put the camera right over the progress bar for injecting, letting you monitor it without burning a whole, prime-realestate control group for just checking injection progress.
And, as JaK mentioned, infestors need to be on a separate finger than the main army for swift mid and late-game army control.
I do like the way you're thinking. We've looked into using single-structure control groups to check progress on injections. I feel currently that the camera keys meet these needs, however, and leave those prime control groups to other tasks.
However, we may be missing something. Why have the layered base cams not sufficed for checking injection progress? because having a single hatchery hotekyed means you can tap it and see the inejct timer without looking away from your current viewpoint.
If your injects are all on time, you can tap your queen control group to know if its time to inject. (injects will always finish their cycle before the queen has energy to inject again if you are injecting on time or within ~2 game seconds) No use in staring at the hatchery waiting for the energy to catch up. In the case that you slip up and your injects are off, you can always revert to clicking the first hatchery to give you a gauge of how soon the inject will be coming. I definitely see the value of your method though.
On August 26 2012 01:18 Vronti wrote:
So I've been using this hotkey setup for quite a while now (probably 30-35 games) and really loving it. However it came to my attention that with the new update, if you have the different units on different keys for production, you don't have to tab. For example, if I had siege tanks on u and marines on j, I could go to my hotkey w/all my production, then just hit uj and build a tank and marine -- no tabbing. With the current setup however, it's a pain to try to change everything around, but it feels like a waste of APM to keep tabbing when I know I don't have to anymore. Have you thought of implementing this functionality?
I'm pretty sure that you cannot build a tank and a marine without tabbing. If this the case... thanks for bringing it up and there will be an update on the way potentially.
On August 26 2012 00:19 sickkungen wrote:
Which file do I download for a claw/fingertip left-handed player? The link gives me too many options... which one is which?
I've now added it to the FAQ, but, lets say you used the flowchart and chose protoss, left handed, and no 4th or 5th mouse buttons. You would be take to this area. Notice that it tells you which version is your version 3 times.
I also added the question into the FAQ now :D
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On August 26 2012 02:16 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:46 Westy wrote:
I am really starting to regret putting in 100's of games to master this hotkey setup. Sure, it may be more efficient, but because its all the buttons are now stacked on top of each other, its also much more easy to screw up. Let me give you a few examples.
I was playing a PvP, I had gone fast blink and he had gone something or other I can't really remember. But I ended up having a contain on him outside his base. One sentry for a FF, and about 10 blink stalkers. Anyways I see him coming down the ramp, and I go to FF, but just before I do he snipes of my sentry. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I just blink away and use my mobility to keep him by his natural. However, because blink and FF are the same buttons, when I went to FF, because the sentry had been killed that exact second, I ended up blinking all my stalkers into his army. Yup, that was GG.
Here's another example. I was playing a PvT, he was pushing my third, I had a mass zealot sentry HT army. Usually I simply FF his units and storm. But because now all the spells are on the same buttons, one small missclick (Having my HT's selected instead of my sentries) cause me to turn all of my HT's into archons, instead of forcefielding.
Simply put, Yes it is more efficient, but its also a lot more easier to make game losing mistakes.
Considering switching back to my old hotkeys, but I have put in nearly 200 games already and feels like A waste to give up now. To use this setup, you must use multiple control groups to control your army. Using 1 big one for your whole army isn't going to cut it, for the exact reasons you mentioned here. Multiple control groups would have solved both of your problems. Consider the following setup: 1 for your whole army, minus high templar1 for your high templar 1 for your zealots (which are also included in your army CG) 1 for your stalkers (which are also included in your army CG) 2 macro CGs the rest of your control groups can be dedicated to harass Using only one CG for army control with this layout will likely be the cause of many mistakes, but then again, one of the main reasons we created the layout was to provide players with an easy reach to all 10 control groups. snip
I already do have my setup like that, it doesn't solve the problem.
I don't have sentries hotkeyed seperatly from my whole army, that would be silly. So when going to cast a FF just as the sentry gets sniped, it will cause all my stalkers to blink where I tried to cast the FF.
And I do always have my HT's completely on their own control group. My point being that with ; and L so close, and the buttons for morph archon and cast FF being on the same key, all it takes is once tiny misclick for you to turn all your ht's into archons and lose the game.
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On August 26 2012 01:18 Vronti wrote:
So I've been using this hotkey setup for quite a while now (probably 30-35 games) and really loving it. However it came to my attention that with the new update, if you have the different units on different keys for production, you don't have to tab. For example, if I had siege tanks on u and marines on j, I could go to my hotkey w/all my production, then just hit uj and build a tank and marine -- no tabbing. With the current setup however, it's a pain to try to change everything around, but it feels like a waste of APM to keep tabbing when I know I don't have to anymore. Have you thought of implementing this functionality?
I just tried this and it didn't work for me. I still need to tab even if the units have all different keys for production.
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hey i have some questions regarding your layout
For PRM, which camera key is used for pylon? more specifically for the reinforcement pylon? or warp in pylon?
and also how are layered camera keys used for protoss? is it as effective as zerg? like chrono perhaps? say if i wanted to chrono all my nexuses for probes how would i do that?
One critism that i want to let you guys should know, for the protoss layout, if differnet buildings go on one hotkey, chrono boosting gets confusing. how would you do that?
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On August 26 2012 02:57 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 02:16 JaKaTaK wrote:On August 25 2012 19:46 Westy wrote:
I am really starting to regret putting in 100's of games to master this hotkey setup. Sure, it may be more efficient, but because its all the buttons are now stacked on top of each other, its also much more easy to screw up. Let me give you a few examples.
I was playing a PvP, I had gone fast blink and he had gone something or other I can't really remember. But I ended up having a contain on him outside his base. One sentry for a FF, and about 10 blink stalkers. Anyways I see him coming down the ramp, and I go to FF, but just before I do he snipes of my sentry. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I just blink away and use my mobility to keep him by his natural. However, because blink and FF are the same buttons, when I went to FF, because the sentry had been killed that exact second, I ended up blinking all my stalkers into his army. Yup, that was GG.
Here's another example. I was playing a PvT, he was pushing my third, I had a mass zealot sentry HT army. Usually I simply FF his units and storm. But because now all the spells are on the same buttons, one small missclick (Having my HT's selected instead of my sentries) cause me to turn all of my HT's into archons, instead of forcefielding.
Simply put, Yes it is more efficient, but its also a lot more easier to make game losing mistakes.
Considering switching back to my old hotkeys, but I have put in nearly 200 games already and feels like A waste to give up now. To use this setup, you must use multiple control groups to control your army. Using 1 big one for your whole army isn't going to cut it, for the exact reasons you mentioned here. Multiple control groups would have solved both of your problems. Consider the following setup: 1 for your whole army, minus high templar1 for your high templar 1 for your zealots (which are also included in your army CG) 1 for your stalkers (which are also included in your army CG) 2 macro CGs the rest of your control groups can be dedicated to harass Using only one CG for army control with this layout will likely be the cause of many mistakes, but then again, one of the main reasons we created the layout was to provide players with an easy reach to all 10 control groups. snip I already do have my setup like that, it doesn't solve the problem. I don't have sentries hotkeyed seperatly from my whole army, that would be silly. So when going to cast a FF just as the sentry gets sniped, it will cause all my stalkers to blink where I tried to cast the FF. And I do always have my HT's completely on their own control group. My point being that with ; and L so close, and the buttons for morph archon and cast FF being on the same key, all it takes is once tiny misclick for you to turn all your ht's into archons and lose the game.
oooohhhhhh....
Sorry about that. I get what you mean now.
Any ideas for solutions?
On August 26 2012 06:19 phantastron wrote:
hey i have some questions regarding your layout
For PRM, which camera key is used for pylon? more specifically for the reinforcement pylon? or warp in pylon?
and also how are layered camera keys used for protoss? is it as effective as zerg? like chrono perhaps? say if i wanted to chrono all my nexuses for probes how would i do that?
One critism that i want to let you guys should know, for the protoss layout, if differnet buildings go on one hotkey, chrono boosting gets confusing. how would you do that?
We're actually going to make some slight changes to the protoss layout soon.
For PRM
The warp-in pylon will be set with Alt+; and recalled with Ctrl+Shift+;
The 5th base camera will be set with Alt+K and recalled with Ctrl+Shift+K
The other layered cameras are used for bases. This makes chrono boosting probes the same speed as injecting.
Press J,
hold Ctrl+shift,
P click, O click, I click, J click, K click (if you had 5 bases you wanted to chrono probes at)
The other advantage for base cameras (arguably the biggest one) is the ability to defend from drops quickly (as a darkgrid user, I'm sure you're familiar with that power)
Instead of using a double-tap to get to a place where you want to chronoboost, which can be inaccurate,
use the 2 free cams as chrono cams, and place them exactly where you can see all that you wish to chrono. If two cameras is not enough for this, consider:
A: Placing some things you want to chrono in view of a base cam.
B: Replacing one of the base cams with another free cam for chrono.
Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to your test results :D
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This could be a really stupid question, but --
Why do you use the term "layered cameras"? This makes me imagine my camera set-up like an onion, my 1st base the outer-most layer and my latest base the inner layer, which just makes me confused.
Do you just use "layered camera" to mean a camera that requires you to press ctrl+shift+key to access?
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Well, you have the typical hotkeys, and then hidden hotkeys "layered" underneath, and accessed in a special way. Its an attempt to create a mental picture that the keyboard has another layer to it, and you use ctrl/shift to access it. If you get that mental image, of like a second layer of hotkeys floating beneath the keyboard, then it illustrates the layout's density, and hopefully one of its advantages.
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I have been toying with something similar for 6 months . And the end result is very similar to what you ended up with. Will take a closer look once I get some sleep :D
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TT this is so hard to get used to. I understand how to use it, and I LOVE the injects. It's beautiful.
So fast to do: "[" -> "O" -> (hold down control+shift from here) "I"+click+"O"+click+"P"+click etc
just bam bam bam, all hatcheries are injected in less than a second.
Anyone else have trouble with the basic concept of the layout? I've typed a /lot/, and my left hand knows where every key on its side of the keyboard is, same with my right hand. Unfortunately, my left hand doesn't know the keys on the right side are. I imagine it doesn't take that long to get used to, but I'm constantly like "shit where' s that key...."
It's basically throwing all of my mechanics into the toilet, so that when I redevelop them they're more efficient. I guess it's worth it, but I won't be able to ladder for a long time lol.
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On August 27 2012 13:09 Mavvie wrote:
TT this is so hard to get used to. I understand how to use it, and I LOVE the injects. It's beautiful.
So fast to do: "[" -> "O" -> (hold down control+shift from here) "I"+click+"O"+click+"P"+click etc
just bam bam bam, all hatcheries are injected in less than a second.
Anyone else have trouble with the basic concept of the layout? I've typed a /lot/, and my left hand knows where every key on its side of the keyboard is, same with my right hand. Unfortunately, my left hand doesn't know the keys on the right side are. I imagine it doesn't take that long to get used to, but I'm constantly like "shit where' s that key...."
It's basically throwing all of my mechanics into the toilet, so that when I redevelop them they're more efficient. I guess it's worth it, but I won't be able to ladder for a long time lol.
That's absolutely how I feel as well. I love the injects, love the building key placements and all that. But its ultra tough to get used to it, especially the control groups are giving me a lot of trouble. Typing 1a2a3a is so engrained in my muscle memory right now. Trying to do the same thing with thecore (0jöj) just freaks me out. I played a couple of games on ladder this morning and raged hard (forgot where fungal was :D).
Still, I think you should hit the ladder sooner rather than later to learn the control groups and abilities. Maybe you'll get demoted, but you will work your way up eventually. Trying to apply thecore under pressure is just an entirely different thing than just practicing vs. AI.
ps: you NA or EU? We could practice a little. Edit: You're Canadian, never mind :D
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EPT
