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Okay I've got a new question now (again)!
If I want to play with my left hand on the left side of the keyboard I should play with the Darkgrid hotkey setup or am I mistaken? (Or with the standard one, eventho it seems like it doesn't provite as much efficiency than the custom hotkey layouts.)
In addition in the Darkgrid thread people are also talking about the "Optimus Advanced Keyboard Layout", is this just an
improved version of the Darkgrid and the Thread was updated, or is it a new thread which I seem to not find? (If so, could you please link me there)
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yo, so I've got a question as well. The dev layout suggests I should bind my macro queens to "o" (letter). Thing is, I can't bind the queens because the ability spawn lava is binded to "o" as well. I always put the queens on "0" (number) up until now, but since I wanted to learn the proper control groups now, I'm getting unsure if I should leave it at that or change something. Note: I've got the german version of the core installed, but that shouldnt make a difference here, because the keys are in the same place.
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@Anvil666 : the key to use for the queen's control group is the key right to the "P" key, not the "O" key (wich is left to the "P" and is used for inject)
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On August 23 2012 18:55 WFGolgoth wrote:
@Anvil666 : the key to use for the queen's control group is the key right to the "P" key, not the "O" key (wich is left to the "P" and is used for inject)
Thanks a bunch mate, will try that out immediately.
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Here is a sample of my current work. it is visual aide for thecore layout. it is only for TLM & TRM control groups and location hotkeys. it is still very early stage of the work so if you have any ideas or opinions please let me know. I will extend the layout to hotkeys for production of units and structures too.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0Niuq.jpg)
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@Maethor : Jak & Foxy gonna love you :p
Great work btw, very explicit use of keys
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On August 22 2012 13:47 FoxyMayhem wrote:
However, we may be missing something. Why have the layered base cams not sufficed for checking injection progress?
Like Etoshi I use a dedicated group (0) for a single hatch to check on inject progress and a group (9) for active tumors or creep queens. The main reason why I don't check inject progress via cam-keys is that it is easier to spam 9-0-9-0-9 than CtrlShiftP-9-CtrlShiftP-9. Another, though minor, reason for me is that it feels uncomfortable to leave my main army (or sth else) unattended to check for injects if it could just as well be done at the bottom of the screen. Admittedly, I use mouse buttons, so I have plenty of CGs to go around and don't feel the loss of CG-real-estate that badly.
A more theorycrafty explanation: it is shorter to press 0 once to check without leaving your current view (say the main army, which is on P) than to press CtrlShiftP-PP to check and get back to your army.
Obviously, I am not saying that using a CG for a hatch is necessarily the best method. Just to give you the insight in how my (and Etoshi's?) reasoning works.
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Here's where I bother you with my progress getting used to the core.
After having played 200+ games with The Core it now feels very natural and I believe my APM ceiling has increased and my APM in long games has increased from 70 to 100 (I used to be in the 150 range as Zerg but switched to Protoss). The most noticeable impacts are the following:
1. I feel comfortable microing both a warp prism and an observer.
2. I feel like I can use Forcefield more effectively in battles. The easier to reach control groups make this possible for me.
3. In long games I can better keep up with macro.
4. I feel more comfortable being active with my army or with multiple army groups. This means that muta no longer auto beats me if competently microed.
Now my next task is to learn the base cam hotkeys and start exploiting these
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@asdir
I definitely get the checking for injects by using a control group, however, if your injects are on time, you should be able to accomplish this by checking the energy on your injecting queen control group. Your injects have to be within 1 second or so of being on time, but I thought I'd bring it up.
@maethor
I'm liking it a lot so far, the whole idea with the pictures of the units is great.
I have one suggestion that I think would make the pictures a little easier to follow.
Use completely different colors for each group of keys, for example.
Red = abilities
Blue = modifiers
Green = control groups
Orange = cameras
Or something like that.
Thanks for the hard work :D
EDIT:
Also making separate versions for the right and left hands would be excellent too, but, time consuming as fuck, so I'd understand if you weren't up for it.
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On August 22 2012 13:47 FoxyMayhem wrote:
In general you should be using your layered base cams frequently. These put the camera right over the progress bar for injecting, letting you monitor it without burning a whole, prime-realestate control group for just checking injection progress.
And, as JaK mentioned, infestors need to be on a separate finger than the main army for swift mid and late-game army control.
I do like the way you're thinking. We've looked into using single-structure control groups to check progress on injections. I feel currently that the camera keys meet these needs, however, and leave those prime control groups to other tasks.
However, we may be missing something. Why have the layered base cams not sufficed for checking injection progress?
I use the layered base cams, but sometimes when your microing/scouting you don't want to move away. However you can switch quickly between the to so you method is better. I agree with you so the best way would be to either just check your queens energy or use the base cams.
Perhaps infestors should go on 0 then since it is hit by a different finger than 9. Then you will have all main units on one row (9,0,-). I don't know how this will work out with the positions of infestors' abilities though.
Then all macro groups will be on one row as well (p, [, ]), and all etc/harass/army/ will be on one row (l, ;, ') and uprgrades,etc on .
What is your view on this Foxy/Jak?
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i hope the upcoming hots beta doesn't delay you from finishing this current beta for some wierd reason
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On August 24 2012 02:18 JaKaTaK wrote:
@asdir
I definitely get the checking for injects by using a control group, however, if your injects are on time, you should be able to accomplish this by checking the energy on your injecting queen control group. Your injects have to be within 1 second or so of being on time, but I thought I'd bring it up.
Nah, my injects aren't that good. And considering that even players like Stephano complain about their imperfect injects and that I would consequently have to look out for 32 or 47 energy or something like that after an imperfect inject, I'd rather check a hatch than recalculate every time. I definitely get your point though: With ideal play I would save one CG and would already be on the right control group to execute injects.
Honest question: Do you think that injecting should be prioritised so high that injects can be hit in every situation, regardless of what else is going on? (sry for being off-topic here)
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On Optimus: Darkgrid has a confusing history. My first layout was named Darkgrid, and all it did was swap the Z and T positions of grid. Since almost all the spells are on Z, this actually alleviated the greatest source of wrist strain from the grid layout. Grid was still a steaming pile of inefficiency though, so eventually I made my second layout, named Optimus. I didn't make it in a separate thread, though, because Darkgrid wasn't that great and I didn't want to spam the forum, so I just used the Darkgrid thread, and asked the mods to change the title.
They never did, hahaha, so you would open Darkgrid and see "OPTIMUS". After everyone had forgotten about the original Darkgrid, and after waiting a few month for the mods to change it, I just decided to embrace the Darkgrid name again -- it sounded more badass anyway. So yeah, OPTIMUS is Darkgrid, and the original Darkgrid is dead.
Single Hatch Control Group: I definitely think the mouse-enhanced versions have the realestate to have a single hatch for inject watching. Still, for fast players, using base cams to check is probably better; it gives map awareness like a boss. For slower players, the separate control group is probably much better.
Never Skipping Injects: Generally yes, I think you should prioritize injects first. A few exceptions: your banelings NEED to be microed, your broodlords NEED to be kept alive, and your infestors NEED to be microed. Things like saving a high priority structure can also come first, but generally injection takes priority because remaxing is so necessary for zerg.
meursault: We love to hear how people are progressing!
Maethor Great work with that layout, thank you sooo MUCH! Separate colors could help a lot, and sometimes you have to make multiple versions of a keyboard for a single layout, à la darkgrid:
+ Show Spoiler +
I personally prefer the cleanness of your art choice over DarkGrid, btw.
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On August 24 2012 07:59 FoxyMayhem wrote:
Single Hatch Control Group: I definitely think the mouse-enhanced versions have the realestate to have a single hatch for inject watching. Still, for fast players, using base cams to check is probably better; it gives map awareness like a boss. For slower players, the separate control group is probably much better.
Personaly, I thing that taping on a hatch is kinda dumb in SC2. People are still using it probably only because day9 said they shuld, but the truth is that there are alot of faster and simpler ways of checking injections, especialy left side popups and sounds.
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Alright. Im lost and frustrated. I have ZRM Downloaded.
I am a Zerg Player, Right handed. Mouse with left and right click.
Im reading the document for what hotkeys to use. It suggests P and O for Hatcheries and Queens (respectively). P and O are not "hotkey-able" to my knowledge. Im certain im missing something and this is very frustrating as all the videos are left handed.
Is there someone who can suggest the most Normal hotkey for ZRM (queens and hatches) and how to use it?
EDIT: Ok lol. I surfed through pages looking for answers... and it turns out anvil at the top of this page asked the exact same question.... OMG. It just goes to show how when you're frustrated you can't do anything. 
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Haha, I feel you bro. It's a pain in the ass to learn this thing. It's gonna pay off though, you just need to power through.
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played one game as zerg with ZRM. this will take forever to learn. was wandering to the left side of the keyboard all the time without noticing. but it looks very interesting, i'm just not sure if i should go through the trouble to learn it. fellow zergs: was it worth it?
another question: i have trouble using the right controlgroups for my units. i use p and [ for queens and hatcheries, which works fine so far. but binding army and scouts just seems odd on the other controlgroups. any advie where to bind which units?
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I am using Darkgrid, but I can tell you it was worth it! And TheCore is even better it'll sure be worth it, but yhe getting used to it is pretty hard. I do advice to first train in the Hotkey Trainer until you know every key. And then going against Bots for 40 Games. After that you should be able to hit the ladder again, maybe still not in 100% shape but I felt like I only get to learn the layout on ladder to its full functionality. (Which in the end is the most important fact anyway, being able to ladder.)
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Has anyone had any success with this type of thing and the Nostromo?
Thanks
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On August 24 2012 21:44 julomat wrote:
played one game as zerg with ZRM. this will take forever to learn. was wandering to the left side of the keyboard all the time without noticing. but it looks very interesting, i'm just not sure if i should go through the trouble to learn it. fellow zergs: was it worth it?
another question: i have trouble using the right controlgroups for my units. i use p and [ for queens and hatcheries, which works fine so far. but binding army and scouts just seems odd on the other controlgroups. any advie where to bind which units?
Your first 5-10 games are going to feel EXTREMELY awkward. My hand drifted over to the other side of the keyboard as well. I'm a Zerg player at heart, but I play all 3 races so I'm using RRM not ZRM (they're a bit different, but mostly pretty similar, ZRM is a bit easier to use as Zerg). I can say that after ~20ish games I was able to beat Master league players again, even though it still felt extremely awkward to control my army (I have 1a-2a-3a so ingrained in muscle memory, having stuff on 9-0-L-; feels really weird). I have only played maybe ~35-50ish games total, and that was split between 3 races, so I am not at all fully comfortable with the layout yet.
That said, I think it's worth it. I look forward to the days when using camera hotkeys is second-nature, I have a 4th hotkey available when I add infestors to my ling/bling/muta and I'm actually capable of controlling my army well.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/saE0Y.png)
