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@proposition
We strongly suggest using the camera location keys! It will feel strange at first, but once you get used to it, it is a very powerful tool.
@king of town
we've learned that the pinky has more potential for speed and dexterity than the other 3 fingers. It is also the 2nd strongest individual finger on the hand. So, its a good balance the way we have it now :D
also, after using a camera location key, you are likely going to select a control group to move it there, or rally there, and not use an ability.
@Mavvie
I used to have this problem, but since I started setting all my cameras at the beginning of the game, it hasn't happened to me :D
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On August 30 2012 03:10 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Mavvie
I used to have this problem, but since I started setting all my cameras at the beginning of the game, it hasn't happened to me :D
How does this have any relevance? He meant that he accidentally let go of shift or ctrl while injecting.
This was actually the sole reason I switched to backspace injects, so I'm very curious about a fool-proof solution to this.
Oh, and I was doing some testing for what the KOP[ layout would be like, and I realized that alt is a bit harder to press. You have to twist your thumb farther. Is this a problem or is it a non-issue?
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On August 29 2012 22:01 Anvil666 wrote:
@Julomat, are you sure you are using the right key combos? You press right Alt (Alt Gr in German layout) plus p,o,i etc. to bind the key and right shift AND ctrl plus p,o,i etc. to recall your selection. Press shift and ctrl with your right thumb.
yes, the camera hotkeys are working fine except for the i key. even so i am german i use the english keyboard layout and an english keyboard.
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im a multi lingual person myself. My alt is set up as change language so how do i bypass this problem.
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@anylamon
If that is the case, I misread/misunderstood the issue. If you don't bind your layered cameras in the beginning of the game, and try to go to a camera that you didn't set, it will mess up your control groups.
The solution instead would be to not let go of Ctrl+Shift while injecting. I don't see why this is difficult.
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On August 30 2012 10:28 JaKaTaK wrote:
@anylamon
If that is the case, I misread/misunderstood the issue. If you don't bind your layered cameras in the beginning of the game, and try to go to a camera that you didn't set, it will mess up your control groups.
The solution instead would be to not let go of Ctrl+Shift while injecting. I don't see why this is difficult.
It's insanely difficult, unless I want to drop everything else I'm doing just to hold shift and ctrl down as hard as I can.
My thumb to pinky measurement with hand open is 6"
My thumb length from the knuckle is 2.5"
My keyboard is this. (Yes, I commited the sin of getting a wireless keyboard)
EDIT: And I'm a righty
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Jak and Foxy, what do you think using the backspace method by putting switch bases on shift+o? I find that this makes injects a lot easier for many hatches (macro hatches). Once a player reaches 5+ bases or if they want to inject a bit more faster( you can hold down shift-o + keep clicking. It's also convient because the player doesn't have to move their fingers after selecting inject on queens.
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Do you have wrist support, Antylamon? It might be two possible things: 1) your palm isn't high enough up to get a good angle to press shift, or 2) your keyboard doesn't support that many simultanious key presses (like left side ctrl+shift work, but not ctrl+shift J. If a key combination fails every time, you know it's a limitation of the hardware and not a failure on your part). I suppose it could be some other weird thing, like the design of the keys make slightly angular presses difficult...
Etoshi, how long have you used layered inject? What are the specific reasons you want to revert to backspace? This is really important, because so far you are the only player I've heard of who has practiced layered injects and decided to go back to backspace injects. (Unless you couldn't get it working in the first place, that happens occasionally with certain keyboards like with Antylamon).
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I switched from layered injects too, Foxy. I gave it more than its chance, thinking that I would get less and less error prone, but I never could solve it.
Anyways, I just moved my arm around a little to experiment, and it seems that my wrist is usually at a 10 degree angle down from the keyboard. I moved my wrist to be level, and was perfect... but I have no way to keep it that way. Plus, when I level it up, my fingers scrunch up, feeling pretty awkward. Even at the 10 degree angle I can still get my thumb on shift fine, I just have to put a *lot* of effort into pushing shift down. Not sure if it has to do with the hardware.
Even so, I don't have enough space in front of my keyboard to put wrist support there.
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On August 31 2012 06:13 FoxyMayhem wrote:
Do you have wrist support, Antylamon? It might be two possible things: 1) your palm isn't high enough up to get a good angle to press shift, or 2) your keyboard doesn't support that many simultanious key presses (like left side ctrl+shift work, but not ctrl+shift J. If a key combination fails every time, you know it's a limitation of the hardware and not a failure on your part). I suppose it could be some other weird thing, like the design of the keys make slightly angular presses difficult...
Etoshi, how long have you used layered inject? What are the specific reasons you want to revert to backspace? This is really important, because so far you are the only player I've heard of who has practiced layered injects and decided to go back to backspace injects. (Unless you couldn't get it working in the first place, that happens occasionally with certain keyboards like with Antylamon).
I still use the layered cameras comfortably but I find just holding down shift-O/pressing is a lot easier then pressing five different keys with 4 fingers instead of 1. Also I don't have to worry about manually set camera location to my hatchery so it is centered as well as setting one to a macro hatch.
Also why is using the layered camera to inject superior to this method? I still use it alot, just not when injecting
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The main advantage of the layered inject method over the base camera inject method is accuracy.
Say we are injecting 3 bases and lose the queen at the natural. With a layered inject, we can skip over that hatchery. With the base camera method, we cannot, we have to cycle through.
A similar thing happens when we have a macro hatcheries. For each hatchery we have that doesn't have a queen at it, we have to press the base camera an additional time.
Drop defense is also superior with a layered inject method because we can go directly to the base we need to defend, without losing very important seconds going through the wrong bases to get to the right one. This could mean a saved tech structure, queen, hatchery, or drones.
Expanding is faster because you don't have to click on the minimap to move a drone there.
Worker transfers are faster because you can quickly go back and forth between bases to move workers and adjust your economy to keep it optimal.
Also, keep in mind, almost all the setup for the cameras can be done at the beginning of the game, when you have nothing much better to do anyway, and in a couple of seconds once you train it. This minimal time investment for the extra control and flexibility is well worth it in our opinion.
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Hay! Diamond zerg dropping in to thank JakaTaK. This has made my gameplay worlds better. It's a very tough transition, or it was for me at least. But once I got used to it, I am able to to do macro and do multi-pronged attacks like never before.
So thank you very much. I think I may actually make it to masters soon if I continue to improve at this rate, and it's all thanks to you.
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So glad to help, Sage. Let us know if you have any other feedback :D
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I am a diamond level terran and after getting a new keyboard I decided to give the core a try. I usually play at 97EPM and I was hoping after a week of using the core I would surpass this. First day, 55 EPM. Second day, 62 EPM. Third day, 73 EPM. Fourth day, 83 EPM. It is definitely working and I got to say it feels much more natural and efficient than the standard layout I was using before. Hopefully within a couple days I will be at 100+ EPM. Thanks a lot Jakatak
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Just a quick update on my progress. Been playing with the core for about 2, 2 1/2 weeks now. I'm at a state where macro seems very natural, I can do most operations without thinking about them anymore. I've gotten used to using 0 and ö (suggested for main army) for my two first control groups. I still struggle with the infestor control group ("L"), but that's mainly due to me not playing with infestors at the moment.
What is tough to get a hang of is the pinky. Yesterday, I lost a game because I accidentaly built 12 mutas instead of infestors (mixed up "m" and "n"). I can't build spore crawlers if my life depended on it ("o","m"), and spawning infested terrans ("n") is very tough. Also, building ultras ("g") feels very awkward. I am sure I'll get used to it, but for me thats the hardest part.
Apart from that, I already feel the transition was VERY worth it. I am constantly checking my larvae now, injecting is pure sex and I max out faster than ever before. Thanks guys for all the work, I find SC2 so much more enjoyable with using the core!
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On August 31 2012 18:50 Anvil666 wrote:
Just a quick update on my progress. Been playing with the core for about 2, 2 1/2 weeks now. I'm at a state where macro seems very natural, I can do most operations without thinking about them anymore. I've gotten used to using 0 and ö (suggested for main army) for my two first control groups. I still struggle with the infestor control group ("L"), but that's mainly due to me not playing with infestors at the moment.
What is tough to get a hang of is the pinky. Yesterday, I lost a game because I accidentaly built 12 mutas instead of infestors (mixed up "m" and "n"). I can't build spore crawlers if my life depended on it ("o","m"), and spawning infested terrans ("n") is very tough. Also, building ultras ("g") feels very awkward. I am sure I'll get used to it, but for me thats the hardest part.
Apart from that, I already feel the transition was VERY worth it. I am constantly checking my larvae now, injecting is pure sex and I max out faster than ever before. Thanks guys for all the work, I find SC2 so much more enjoyable with using the core!
Excellent :D
As far as ultras on "G" goes, this is going to be the biggest challange with HotS. The Zerg produce everything from larva, so we basically run out of close keys to use. To solve this, I can only think of pushing out the free cams and maybe layering a 6th base cam. Not 100% sure, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'll be interested to see if Blizzard takes any initiative and makes the new units more accessible in the standard layout, or just tacks them on the end.
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On August 31 2012 10:40 JaKaTaK wrote:
Drop defense is also superior with a layered inject method because we can go directly to the base we need to defend, without losing very important seconds going through the wrong bases to get to the right one. This could mean a saved tech structure, queen, hatchery, or drones.
Expanding is faster because you don't have to click on the minimap to move a drone there.
Worker transfers are faster because you can quickly go back and forth between bases to move workers and adjust your economy to keep it optimal.
All of these are false.
Just because you use backspace injects doesn't automatically prohibit you from doing any of these.
EDIT for clarity: I swapped Y and U so backspace injects could be more accessible. I had tried layered injects for a long while, thinking that I would become less error prone, but I did not. However, just because I had gone on to use backspace injects doesn't mean that I didn't keep on using the layered base cams for what Jak mentioned (drop defense, expanding, and worker transfers).
On August 31 2012 23:27 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 18:50 Anvil666 wrote:
Just a quick update on my progress. Been playing with the core for about 2, 2 1/2 weeks now. I'm at a state where macro seems very natural, I can do most operations without thinking about them anymore. I've gotten used to using 0 and ö (suggested for main army) for my two first control groups. I still struggle with the infestor control group ("L"), but that's mainly due to me not playing with infestors at the moment.
What is tough to get a hang of is the pinky. Yesterday, I lost a game because I accidentaly built 12 mutas instead of infestors (mixed up "m" and "n"). I can't build spore crawlers if my life depended on it ("o","m"), and spawning infested terrans ("n") is very tough. Also, building ultras ("g") feels very awkward. I am sure I'll get used to it, but for me thats the hardest part.
Apart from that, I already feel the transition was VERY worth it. I am constantly checking my larvae now, injecting is pure sex and I max out faster than ever before. Thanks guys for all the work, I find SC2 so much more enjoyable with using the core! Excellent :D As far as ultras on "G" goes, this is going to be the biggest challange with HotS. The Zerg produce everything from larva, so we basically run out of close keys to use. To solve this, I can only think of pushing out the free cams and maybe layering a 6th base cam. Not 100% sure, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'll be interested to see if Blizzard takes any initiative and makes the new units more accessible in the standard layout, or just tacks them on the end.
Y is currently base cam, so you could push it out of the way, since it's practically useless with layered injects.
It doesn't help me very much, having moved base cam to U for more accessibility, but the needs of the many over the needs of the few. Plus, I'm trying to find out a way to switch back to layered injects, but I have no idea how to support my wrist with the limited space I have in front of my keyboard (pretty much nonexistant space, actually). I'm thinking about the space created when I tilt the keyboard for playing SC2, and it should be enough to put something there, but I have no proper wrist support to put there. Anyone have an idea for ghetto wrist support?
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On August 31 2012 10:40 JaKaTaK wrote:
Say we are injecting 3 bases and lose the queen at the natural. With a layered inject, we can skip over that hatchery. With the base camera method, we cannot, we have to cycle through.
While this is theoretically true, I find it hard to believe that the layered inject person wouldn't go to that base to check if the next queen was done, and then go to the next base anyways, which would be equivalent to the base cam person pressing the base cam button one more time.
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On September 01 2012 00:02 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 10:40 JaKaTaK wrote:
Drop defense is also superior with a layered inject method because we can go directly to the base we need to defend, without losing very important seconds going through the wrong bases to get to the right one. This could mean a saved tech structure, queen, hatchery, or drones.
Expanding is faster because you don't have to click on the minimap to move a drone there.
Worker transfers are faster because you can quickly go back and forth between bases to move workers and adjust your economy to keep it optimal.
All of these are false. Just because you use backspace injects doesn't automatically prohibit you from doing any of these.
He is saying one is comparatively faster. He's not saying any of those things are impossible. You can play SC2 without using hotkeys at all, it doesn't mean that TheCore isn't more efficient.
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On September 01 2012 00:09 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 00:02 Antylamon wrote:On August 31 2012 10:40 JaKaTaK wrote:
Drop defense is also superior with a layered inject method because we can go directly to the base we need to defend, without losing very important seconds going through the wrong bases to get to the right one. This could mean a saved tech structure, queen, hatchery, or drones.
Expanding is faster because you don't have to click on the minimap to move a drone there.
Worker transfers are faster because you can quickly go back and forth between bases to move workers and adjust your economy to keep it optimal.
All of these are false. Just because you use backspace injects doesn't automatically prohibit you from doing any of these. He is saying one is comparatively faster. He's not saying any of those things are impossible. You can play SC2 without using hotkeys at all, it doesn't mean that TheCore isn't more efficient.
I think I didn't say it clearly enough the first time:
I swapped Y and U so backspace injects could be more accessible. I had tried layered injects for a long while, thinking that I would become less error prone, but I did not. However, just because I had gone on to use backspace injects doesn't mean that I didn't keep on using the layered base cams for what Jak mentioned (drop defense, expanding, and worker transfers).
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EPT
