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@Foxy Because of what you said, actually.
On September 01 2012 11:56 FoxyMayhem wrote:
JaK ol buddy, remember production goes on the mouse for mouse enhanced because, when using the mouse buttons accuracy suffers for a fraction. Since marco's next action is on the keyboard, this loss of accuracy is acceptable, but can be a problem when microing in a battle.
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United States2787 Posts
On September 02 2012 00:11 maLaK1 wrote:
is 0.4 coming out soon?
Got the major zerg stuff finished on the Data Doc yesterday. Going to start on the auto-cast abilities later today, but I'll only have 1 hour a day to work on it until next week, when I'll have another 5 hour session like yesterday.
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I did some puzzling adjusted a bunch of things for myself.
You might want to do some of these things as well. Please check the pics for some suggestions/ideas.
I made pictures because I realized words are boring. Reasoning below.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IzvKl.png)
This roughly is TheCore RRM 033.
The functions are assigned in order. Buttons can have any function, and 9/10 times you'll press J or I.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9HeF9.png)
This is how hard the keys are to reach for me. Might be personal, I dunno.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IApkX.png)
This is which fingers I naturally use to press buttons. Also, I checked what key combinations are comfortable to press (almost) at the same time.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pwfar.png)
You'll still press J or I 9/10 times. But it's a little easier to see what buttons the rest is on.
Drop is under 'Advanced', Massive units under 'Stop', Upgrade buildings under 'Stop', Spellcasters under 'Caster', Caster Buildings and Gas under 'Caster', Spam buildings under 'Basic', Modes under 'Basic' and 'Down', New bases under 'Down' etc. etc. etc.
Attack upgrades (J, I) and defense upgrades (M, K) are ordered by key. Unit upgrades on J or the same key as the unit.
Buildings are usually built with two fingers, and I paid attention to reachability for speed.
I did move the cameras out of the way. I don't know if this is the best solution, but this kinda works.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yhVxa.png)
Protoss production.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mZttk.png)
Protoss abilities and upgrades.
Blink is on 'Advanced' to avoid accidental blinking - and because blinkstalkers are on O.
Interceptors and Charge are also on 'Down' to allow autocasting.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3814U.png)
Terran production.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xVz54.png)
Terran abilities and upgrades.
Heal is on 'Down' because of autocast.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1egvQ.png)
Zerg production.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vJnRk.png)
Zerg abilities and upgrades. Hatchery upgrades are a little out of the way for the same reasons they were in 033.
I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, or that you should throw it all around. It's just what I like personally. Hope it helps.
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Great post, KoT, that is a lot of work. What you're doing is what we did with our "Systems" section -- though we never wrote them down. I think having illustrations like this is great for working with, especially your list of easy keys to combo.
JaK and I will look and compare what .4 is turning out to be to see if how we can improve it. Thank you for your work!
@ Antylamon: That's only for a fraction of a second, and it is not a problem when the next action is on the keyboard. Since we put production facilities on the mouse, the next action is producing units or calling down mules. This means there is no loss of accuracy when accuracy is needed.
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On September 02 2012 06:14 King of Town wrote:This is how hard the keys are to reach for me. Might be personal, I dunno.
Period would probably be better off as yellow. I can hit it ridiculously easily with my index finger, rather than the middle finger as suggested in the OP, if I recall correctly.
Apostrophe might be yellow or orange, kinda iffy.
Comma seems like it should be orange. When I concentrate on doing it quickly, it's so much easier. (With ring finger)
7 should be red. It's the hardest-to-reach used key.
All imho.
Great work on all of those pics 
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United States2787 Posts
Holy shit... That was some serious work King of Town. Thanks a lot We'll definitely look into what you've brought up here and see if it'll help with 0.4. Damn man, well done.
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Awesome stuff, will look into it for myself as well, but doesn't this depend more or less on the keyboard (and its elevation) and hand position used? My confort zone is different from both Antylamon and King of Town...
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Question. the hotkey layout for (PRMM) has the control groups set to side mouse buttons 9.0.O,P,L,:,' and ]. Why? and the (PLMM) configuration has it them set for X,2,3,4,W,E,S,D and the mouse buttons. If you're right handed wouldn't it make more sense to have Control groupsn and ohter hotkeys, on the left side of the keyboard? It just feels more natural to have your non-mouse hand at the left side of the keyboard, and it feels a little bit weird to have my left hand so close to my mouse hand.
I just thought it was weird since the recomended hotkey setup for me was PRMM following the flow chart....any reason why this is
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On September 02 2012 21:03 Nanoko wrote: It just feels more natural to have your non-mouse hand at the left side of the keyboard, and it feels a little bit weird to have my left hand so close to my mouse hand.
any reason? argument? no?
it do NOT just feels more natural, it feels more natural to You.
it do NOT feels a little bit weird to have left hand close to the right, it is to You.
And even if it is "less natural", what about it? Who said that layout shuld be natural?
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On September 02 2012 21:03 Nanoko wrote:
Question. the hotkey layout for (PRMM) has the control groups set to side mouse buttons 9.0.O,P,L,:,' and ]. Why? and the (PLMM) configuration has it them set for X,2,3,4,W,E,S,D and the mouse buttons. If you're right handed wouldn't it make more sense to have Control groupsn and ohter hotkeys, on the left side of the keyboard? It just feels more natural to have your non-mouse hand at the left side of the keyboard, and it feels a little bit weird to have my left hand so close to my mouse hand.
I just thought it was weird since the recomended hotkey setup for me was PRMM following the flow chart....any reason why this is
The reason why it is set to JIOP is because you are actually supposed to move your keyboard and flip it slightly. That way, JIOP feels as comfortable or even more so than the normal setup. Check the OP for further information.
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@Sapp: Where is your explanation for why the hotkeys are on the right side of the keyboard for Right handed players and on the left side for Left handed players. Even if I am the only person in the world who thinks it feels weird or it feels more natural, whcih I am almost sure i'm not, it doesn't make any sense for a hotkey layout that is supposed to make all the major hotkeys close together on the same side of the keyboard as the mouse. An example; i'm willing to bet that most right handed people when gaming, leave their non dominant hand on the left side of the keyboard so if playing starcraft they suddenly ahve to move their ahdn from where they're used to keeping it all the time it's fucking inconvienent wouldn't you say so? or maybe it do NOT feel inconvienet to YOU. thanks for realizing i was talking to YOU and not the person who invented the fucking hotkey Setup.
Jackass.
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@Anvil666: i didn't see any mention of Jiop in the OP? link please. ty for the HELPFUL response though
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@ Nanoko watch the first video in the op, it shows you how to tilt the keyboard. Also, check out the faq for a spreadsheet that shows you which fingers are hitting which keys (e.g. hitting shift and ctrl. with your right thumb). Sure, at first the layout feels very alien, but after a while it'll feel completely natural. Thanks for being polite, it's always good to have nice people around.
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@Nanoko
What the f**k? O.o? All I said was true, don't be silly...
It's not about being helpful or polite, its about You, You want everything on the plate under your nose, ouh guess what, it's beta, know what that means? Look for it alittle, everything is in it's place, It doesn't flash like las vegas at night yet, but as i said, it's beta, deal with it. And stop flameing my ass, I said nothing that could make You angry.
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I've read the new 0.4 core data for zerg and am wondering what happens to the additonal two extra camera hotkeys?
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@Sapp: I don't want anything, I asked why the setup was the way it was for the (PRMM) download. And then provided reasoning for why I wanted to know it was setup that way, you I didn't say anything should be changed, I never once said "I want this Hotkey layout to be like this" I didn't complain about anything either, other than your shitty attitude, and then you posted your provocative comment which was completely unnecessary.
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Nanoko, cut the crap.
If you can calm the fuck down, then I'll give you a proper detailed response. If you expect a non-emotional, unbiased response, then you have to ask politely for it. You're immeasurably lucky that people are trying to answer you at all even with your unbearable attitude.
So, stop being an asshole and ask again if you truly want to have an answer.
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United States2787 Posts
@Etoshi
You will have 6 layered cameras instead of 5. We felt that the zerg could use another base camera more than they could that 3rd free camera. You will still have 2 free cameras for whatever your heart desires, but we did move them a bit further away to favor unit production and in preparation for HotS.
@Nanoko
Calling people names in this thread both makes your argument weaker, and makes it less likely that people will give you a helpful answer. Please refrain from that in the future when posting in this thread. If you can't calmly and intelligently articulate your confusion, don't expect any more help from us. That being said:
The reason why it is more efficient to have your right hand on the right side of the keyboard is because of the modifiers alt, ctrl, and shift. By pressing them with your thumb, you utilize the large gap between your thumb and index finger and reach more keys and key combinations more comfortable and faster than with any other setup.
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Furthermore, since the thumb is practically never used in a typical base ASDF hotkey layout, it's the equivalent of having six fingers.
I think I might have chased Nanoko off, though. Well, I guess that's the story of people using this emoticon to represent their mood:
Mood: 
Anyways, layered injects are pretty nice so far, but I put a lot more strain on my wrist using them when I did using backspace injects. Am I doing something wrong or am I just getting used to using 4 buttons rather than 1 to go through bases while injecting?
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Finally starting to get a little bit used to the layout of TRM on a nordic QWERTY(Lost to an NA gold toss yesterday and smacked diamonds today) but i have a few concerns as of now.
I feel like i want to use the spacebar for something that i currently have zero idea what it should be and need suggestions from other users. Rallypoint cam? Base jump cam? What works good for you?
Edit: Found a few older posts that i was a little torn between.
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EPT
