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After all Jak asked for it -> feedback for the Zerg layout (comparison vs. the old 0.2, the one which had larvae on "i"):
Pros:
- Picked up the habit to use "next subgroup" again. Nice and easy to reach. For the other races I'd definitely would want it to be there.
- Fungal first and attack/moving zerglings next is a nice fingerroll (PILJ)
- Building infestors on . was horrible before, better now
- For some reason injects on O feels better than on I. Can't even say why...*scratches head*
Cons:
- I cannot spam drones. Though I know this isn't a big issue for most here, it is a deal breaker for me. Being able to build a unit I build almost all game long without looking is a huge deal, I think. I feel I need my eyes elsewhere.
- Though the fungal-fingerroll is nice, I feel having the main army on L is uncomfortable. I guess it's because I have to bend the longest finger a lot to be below index and ring finger (got long fingers though).
- Advanced buildings on Ä (American apostrophe) is kinda far away (. isn't that much better though).
Though I list more pros than cons it didn't make relearning worthwhile to me. Besides, I put festors on N, so I strictly speaking killed one of the cons.In general I would say not too much had changed conceptually (though many keys changed due to the "ability on O" decision). Both layouts are really good and a huge improvement on anything else. I just like Core 0.2 before all the changes a tad better. I'm still hugely grateful for the work!
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For nords who can't bother reading stuff (like me):
suggested binds for righthanded terrans (with claw/fingergrip?) ->
P = CC/Ebay/Acad/Arm/Fcore
O = Rax/Fact/Port & the techstructures for these
Ö = (main)Army
L = Tanks/ghosts
0 = M&M
9 = Tanks/Ghosts
Å = Vikings
+ = Harassunits
´ = Harassunits
. = Harassunits
I'd personally use one of the harasskeys for marauders (+ should be ideal as it's next to 0 anyway) unless I really need 3 harassgroups. Maybe that's just me, but I like to have control of these independently from my marines (tabbing is ok too but not ideal). No separate control for medivacs in the mainarmy with this but they are quite easy to control manually anyways I guess.
Again thanks a lot for this. About time for me to customize settings, this proved to be a much needed kick in the butt.
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It'd be great if you could remake the illustration of the layout, as I need to convert to norwegian.
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so alt+'button' is set camera, but alt by itself is bound to 'center on current selection'
so technically i cant set camera hotkeys on locations unless there is a unit at that location, and i have it selected, cause just pressing ALT will change the camera to the selected unit.
should i just unbind 'center on current selection' if i want to hotkey cameras to locations that have nothing there?
this is on TRM fyi
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ellaguru, I have ALT unbinded as center on current selection. While I use the mouseless version, I map center on current selection on one of my mouse buttons, which could be subbed for some other keyboard key out of the way. As a protoss, its very easy to chrono boost buildings by clicking on it out of my macro keys, then hitting my mouse button to center on it.
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On June 28 2012 10:56 ellaguru wrote:
so alt+'button' is set camera, but alt by itself is bound to 'center on current selection'
so technically i cant set camera hotkeys on locations unless there is a unit at that location, and i have it selected, cause just pressing ALT will change the camera to the selected unit.
should i just unbind 'center on current selection' if i want to hotkey cameras to locations that have nothing there?
this is on TRM fyi
There are 5 base cams and 3 free cams with every version of the layout. Alt is only to set the base cams, that is why it centers on selection. Super quick to select your main or select your natural and pressing Alt + O will center the camera and set the location hotkey all at once. Super nice for defending against drops once you get used to it. For zerg it is the best way to inject so far.
The free cams are set with shift. So if you want a rally cam you just use shift + H to set and H to recall. Theres three so you can play around with a ramp cam or a xel naga watch tower cam
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i just wanted to set all my base cams at the start of the game while im making the first few workers and not doing anything important.
i went ahead and unbound center on current selection so i could do this. although it does seem like a useful command its not one ive been using up to now. so i guess i wont miss it. and theres not any spare key in close promixity to give this command to. maybe \ or backspace perhaps. (on TRM)
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Anyone know if the swedish/finish keyboard setup is suitable with a danish keyboard? Might be a dumb question.
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On June 28 2012 13:11 JacobShock wrote:
Anyone know if the swedish/finish keyboard setup is suitable with a danish keyboard? Might be a dumb question.
I have no way of trying it out, but if you could do it and report back with your findings, it would be greatly appreciated. Also looking for a norwegian user to test that layout.
Edit:
In other news,
SC2 Hotkey Remapper 0.9 released:
+ Show Spoiler +This program converts .SC2Hotkey files to use with other keyboard layouts. Currently it supports the Finnish/Swedish layout, German layout and French AZERTY out of the box. That is not all, by writing a simple layout conversion file, user can convert hotkey files for virtually any keyboard layout. Please submit the conversion file if you write one! (It'll probably be about 10 lines tops, it won't take long.) Get it here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14548792/SC2HotkeyRemapper0.9.zipChangelog for 0.9: - Added smart AltGr functionality - Removed AltGr layouts, everything is "smart" now - Added file naming pattern - Added the ability to select many layouts at once. ( Voltir42: I think this is exactly what you need.) - Fixed a bug where regardless of AltGr setting, it was always on. This means left-handed layouts didn't have a functioning Alt key.
Because of a bug in the last version, the hotkey layouts maintained by me for left-handed users were wrong. Sorry lefties. Here are the updated files. Right-handed users aren't affected:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14548792/TheCore02German.zip
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14548792/TheCore02FrenchAZERTY.zip
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14548792/TheCore02FinSwe.zip
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I'm not sure I like how I have to tilt my hand for marine-splitting to work (vs banelings). i for stim, then I have patrol two steps below slightly to the right ( ; on a swedish keyboard, next to M) so either I move my ringfinger in a very awkward position or i tilt my hand and move down my pninky. Better than p of course but still. I think swapping M (which now is designated for hold) and ; is a good idea, but maybe that's just me. I don't think having access to hold and stim at the same time is really needed whereas stim and patrol is for those who split like me.
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Yeap, Awesome layout, but M is hard/annoying to reach, maybe because my hands are probably bigger then average.
also, i find pressing ctrl + shift and then pressing my recall keys not so efficient. I think ctrl + some other key would be better and faster honestly.
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On June 28 2012 20:46 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Yeap, Awesome layout, but M is hard/annoying to reach, maybe because my hands are probably bigger then average.
Layouts for bigger (and smaller) hand sizes are planned to be released in the future.
On June 28 2012 20:46 Xenocide_EU wrote:
also, i find pressing ctrl + shift and then pressing my recall keys not so efficient. I think ctrl + some other key would be better and faster honestly.
Do you have a suggestion for what those keys would be? In the current system you can I can rest my fingers on home keys JIOP while injecting four bases. It's hard to imagine a more efficient system without sacrificing a lot of other functionality (especially control groups). Also note that there are free camera keys which don't require ctrl+shift. Pressing ctrl+shift might seem unnatural or weird at first, but you'll be amazed how fast you get used to it.
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swapped M and ; (hold & patrol) and it's better for sure.
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Is there a reason that the overlord generate and stop generating creep is on the same key now? There isn't a similar problem to burrow here so when you have overlords that are generating creep and not generating creep in a selection you can issue either command to the whole group. It would seem that the generate creep command should stay on 8 and maybe move stop generating creep to B or something (that's what I've done) as it's close enough but out of the way since it isn't too often that one wishes to stop generating creep. The only instance I can think of is if you're doing creep highways in ZvZ while you attack but turning them off while you're defending, but I've not often seen that.
EDIT: Also, I am fairly certain that the load command on dropships is as useless as the move command. I know I mentioned this before but after you said that progamers were pressing it I assumed that it must be useful but it performs the exact same operation as just right clicking a unit with a dropship. Would the button register a press if a player right clicked a unit with a dropship? That seems to highlight and activate the load command if you look in the bottom right, perhaps that's why the data shows it being used. I tried looking for move and gather in the data document but couldn't find them, presumably you omitted them for this reason (or I couldn't find them) and, if so, then the load command should also be discounted.
Let me know if I'm way off here, this is just how it seems to me ^^
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@Quaterno
Concerning Generate Creep: In that situation, all the overlords would either be dropping creep or not, the only situation where having 2 buttons is advantageous is when some overlords are dropping creep and some are not, and they are both selected, and you want to have the option to choose one or the other, can you think of any situations where this is the case?
Concerning Load: That is a really good point that I didn't think of. Testing it right now, will edit this post with the results asap.
EDIT: Nice Catch! I will change the files to reflect this. Unless someone comes forward with a legitimate reason why it is more efficient to press the load button instead of right clicking, i will regard it in the file as move is regarded. Thanks :D
@Snusmumriken
what is your ; in an american keyboard? is it ","??
EDIT: nm, i got it. Phatency FTW. I will be implementing a change to make it easier on the zerg specific layout to use patrol and stim at the same time :D
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Discussion Regarding Free Camera Hotkeys and Shift-Queueing
Currently to set a free cam you hold Shift and press the hotkey. The downside of this setup is that you can not activate a camera hotkey while shift queueing commands (since you will merely reset the hotkey).
This does not affect the base cams since they are set with Alt.
Quick example of shift-queueing with base cams: As Protoss you click minimap on natural expand, shift queue some build commands, use main base cam to jump back and send building probe back to gather minerals.
There are two scenarios where I think shift-queueing with free cams might be practical/beneficial:
1. Creep Cam
Sometimes my 1 or 2 creep queens get extra energy, I can do things like jump to my third (where there is no queen) and inject and then shift queue her back to the creep edge to drop another tumor or into a defensive position.
2. Enemy Base/Expansion Cam
You can use this cam with speedlings or burrowed infestors to quickly set up a harassment. Select units > Hold shift and right click on minimap to set a sneaky route towards enemy base > Enemy mineral line cam > right click move into the near side of the mineral line and then shift a-move to the other side of the mineral line.
Or with infestors, you m-move to the front of the expansion, shift queue infested terrans and then jump to rally cam and queue a quick retreat back to your main army.
Still looking for more uses....
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Burrow and unburrow on seperate keys is actually super useful. It lets you hold down the burrow key and click roaches one by one to burrow them, almost like blink micro.
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@DubC
I don't see where the camera would be overridden in these circumstances as the free cams are not layered over any abilities. I'll test it out, but at this point I don't think it should interfere.
@Tarqon
That is really cool! I will check this out and likely give zerg specific layouts a separate key for unburrow on 0.3 :D
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On June 29 2012 05:52 JaKaTaK wrote:
@DubC
I don't see where the camera would be overridden in these circumstances as the free cams are not layered over any abilities. I'll test it out, but at this point I don't think it should interfere.
I'm trying to describe circumstances where you might have to shift queue commands both before and after pressing the camera hotkey.
Technically you are correct, with the current layout there is no conflict - BUT to avoid resetting the camera location by accident, you have to let go of shift, hit the camera hotkey, and then hold shift again to continue queueing commands
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The problem with the generate creep thing is just that if you have a group of overlords where some are generating and some are not and you press the key it will stop them all. I just think that it's better to have seperate keys since if I want to quickly box some overlords and generate creep I don't want to do it quickly, then look back later and realise that one of them already was and all I did was just stop that one.
Overall I just think it's more likely to select some overlords where some are generating and some are not than it is to need to stop generating creep often enough that it warrents having it on the key that it's on as opposed to B (can't remember which it's on, but the point is that B is harder to hit, but that negative is outweighed by the need to use it)
EDIT:
On June 29 2012 04:53 Tarqon wrote:
Burrow and unburrow on seperate keys is actually super useful. It lets you hold down the burrow key and click roaches one by one to burrow them, almost like blink micro.
ooo cool I never thought of that, I usually just click->burrow->click->burrow. Your way sounds much faster, neat tip ^^
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EPT
