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On February 06 2012 13:15 Angel_ wrote:
This is just a blind, no thought whatsoever suggestion, But if you got a second orbital, even if you just left it in your base to mule, how long would it delay your push, and how many extra hellions and marines could you produce? Would it be worth it?
And if you wanted turn this into a proper two base Marine/Hellion(Tank)/Battlecruiser 14ish minute 4 battlecruiser push...does anyone think that would sound feasible? Purely theorycrafting.
I feel like 14 minutes for an all-in is a pretty long time without some kind of borderline suicidally early expansion and extra gas mining.
By comparison, a Zerg that was allowed to freely drone and get sick macro going could be almost maxed by 14 minutes. It's a lot later than you'd think.
I should also mention that I think you'd get harassed to death by that point in the game if you waited that long.
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On February 06 2012 13:51 Mobius_1 wrote:Well this seems like a fun build to throw in to mess with Zergs  TotalBiscuit must approve. I think the only way this can be improved is if every appearance of the word "Battlecruiser" is in big red bold underlined capital letters. Yeah, I can see why this would be a great followup to reactor hellion opening with marines to deny ovie scouts. Surprise Battlecruisers are pretty damn difficult to stop with any of the standard Zerg compositions that can be teched up at that stage. (NP's could screw you over but it looks like it hits before that, and rushing for NP leaves basically no defense for 1-base-all-in-worth of marine tank)
Yeah, in one of my games, I guess the zerg was going for more of a stephano style(lots of lings/+1 melee, infestors) and I feared that he would have NP. It didn't really matter though, because he straight up died to the push, wasting energy on IT's only for my slow ass BC's to run away and get repaired.
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I tried it close by air on meta. Won easily and I got a lot of hate from the opponent. I don't like to get yelled out so won't be using it much more 
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I lost to 2 base Battlecruisers out of 2 starports not too long ago on shakurus. He made a lot of turrets and turtled hard so i couldn't get in. Didn't have enough hydras or queens. They're pretty good... was like BCs?? this is BS. I feel bad for losing to it.
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If a Terran does a lot of harass with the first bc, I could see the marine tank bc push being very effective. This is another all in im probably gonna have to think about on ladder soon...
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If you know terran hasn't expanded by 5:30, then you should be staying on hatch tech, 1-2 gas, an evo, and massing ling/bane (2+ marines should cue you in it's not hellions).
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Just wanna point out that Naama went gas first - fastest reactor helion. Nice post! Would love to try this out considering how much i dislike playing close air vs Zerg on Meta. Cheers!
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I dont like the marine/marauder idea about this, it makes it alot more unsafe then tanks do.basically MM is good vs roach while marine tank is safe against almost every response. I'd do it as naama did it, except i might throw in another rax seeing as he had like 600 mins when he moved out.
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I know it's not as fun, but wouldn't banshees be better than bcs for this all-in? It would be almost the same thing as the 111 with banshee against protoss isn't it?
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The few times I've tried this so far on the ladder I've found that by the time I move out I have a metric shit ton of Minerals. No gas, ever. But a shit ton of minerals. Considering bringing less SCVs, starting a CC at my nat as soon as allowable, and leaving room for a possible pull back and not-all-in. Dunno.
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Funny thing is: IdrA actually scouted this way WAY early and didn't react to it AT ALL. Like... not a single bit. I assume he assumed that the Terran would cancel his build because IdrA scouted it. But... well, he didn't.
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On February 06 2012 20:29 Mahtasooma wrote:
Funny thing is: IdrA actually scouted this way WAY early and didn't react to it AT ALL. Like... not a single bit. I assume he assumed that the Terran would cancel his build because IdrA scouted it. But... well, he didn't.
He thought there wouldn't be any ground units with this all-in. You can tell because he made at least 9 queens, and almost no zerglings.
On February 06 2012 14:30 krooked wrote:I tried it close by air on meta. Won easily and I got a lot of hate from the opponent. I don't like to get yelled out so won't be using it much more A lot of zergs just call out Terran for the hell of calling out Terran. It's gotten better recently, but just yesterday I got a game on ladder where the Zerg was hyper-aggressive, but never really droned a lot. So, I eventually managed to push with marine/tank and a metric ton of banked minerals.(I wasn't playing great at the time; I was just on a losing streak.) He BM'd me before quitting.
Note that this is on NA ladder, I would assume people are more BM here.
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I love this guide!
watched this vid. ROFL
As a zerg player, im going to play as terran a few times on ladder JUST because of this.
Wonder if it will work vs terran and toss??
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On February 06 2012 20:59 EndOfLine wrote:
I love this guide!
watched this vid. ROFL
As a zerg player, im going to play as terran a few times on ladder JUST because of this.
Wonder if it will work vs terran and toss??
Battlecruisers in general are such a what the fuck unit in general that it could work, however, I don't think it should.
If you do it against terran he should be able to make enough vikings along with whatever else and beat your push.
If you do it against toss and they scout it they really can just kill you before your push I think. And if not I'm a little torn between "Repaired battlecruisers can tank a lot of stalker hits allowing your army to do a shit ton of damage" and, "I just don't think so".
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The bad things about BC - 1/1/1/1 vs protoss
Harassment - Protoss gets stalkers at the beginning, and having 8 stalkers in comparison to 4 queens is WAY better.
Add the fact that protoss can chase the BC to the edge of the base (no creep dependency) any harassment that deals damage (more than one pylon on the edge) will likely fail.
the strength of Banshees is also the threat of cloak forcing observers, their speed and especially in the later engagements their DPS.
The delay of the battlecruiser enables the protoss to cut probes much later, giving him even more economic lead
Your 1/1/1 will also be significantly weaker due to the cost of 2 bc / Fusion core = around 750 Gas = 7.5 banshees ( no cloak). Also it will cut your tank count since you will be investing in a lot of Gas quickly for Battlecruisers.
The awesome things about BC vs protoss
Their insane HP with repair - Theyr like a floating building, taking all sentry / stalker hits from the protoss
Scvs repairing under them will block charge zealots, or just big zealot numbers.
Yamato Cannon might be upgradeable, and used to kill immortals quickly - else Battlecruisers just kill immortals quickly anyway
also good against 0/0/0 zealots and stalkers
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On February 06 2012 22:13 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:09 weikor wrote:
only that protoss gets stalkers at the beginning, and having 8 stalkers in comparison to 4 queens is WAY better.
Add the fact that protoss can chase the BC to the edge of the base (no creep dependency) any harassment that deals damage (more than one pylon on the edge) will likely fail.
the strength of Banshees is also the threat of cloak forcing observers, their speed and especially in the later engagements their DPS. You don't get 8 Stalkers versus a suspected 111. You need 2 max. at each mineral line to deflect Banshees. The rest should be Zealot/Sentry/Immortal because crushing the ground-force is more important than killing the Banshees. You can warp-in Stalkers after the battle to kill the Banshees should you need to. With a BC 111 the idea remains the same. Protoss has to focus on killing the ground army before trying to kill the air units. But because BC are harder to deflect away than Banshees, Protoss needs more Stalkers to deflect the harassment, which in-turn makes Protoss weaker against the ground push that comes afterwards. Which is why I think that a BC 111 could work, in principle.
Against a suspected 1/1/1, yes 4 stalkers, but then once you dont see Banshees you will probably scout him with an observer + make another at home. With close air, thats even easier. Also warpin of another 3-4 stalker will certainly deflect a BC + and you can micro against them
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On February 06 2012 11:58 SidewinderSC2 wrote:I'd rather make my Marines tougher, kill Roaches more easily (and quicker if they decide to go for the 7 Roach pressure timing), and store up a few Hellions just to hopefully eliminate banelings and minimize damage on my Marines from Zerglings. Only downside is that Marauders can't be repaired and you won't have the time to produce a Medivac.
IIRC the timing is nearly perfect to get 1 medivac and the tech lab on the starport while the fusion core is building.
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EPT
