On February 08 2012 10:00 NozliW_ wrote: It's a nice all in, however i dislike that you don't want to tell zergs how to beat this, makes me think that you use this every TvZ and you just don't want to lose and have easy wins.
I play random, so I don't favor any race.. and have discussed the counter throughout the thread^^ a few extra queens, a few extra spores, and no crazy overreaction(mass corruptor).
You can deal with this in plenty of different ways, all are valid.
They key as with most any terran 1 base build that involves pulling a lot of SCV's, is that you need a baneling nest and banelings to do at least decent damage.
I did a really defensive, slow 3 rax. (thought he was 1 - 1 - 1 drop w/banshee) Basically i just made a shit ton of marines and mauraders and then waited in my base while having vision outside just in case he was going to siege me or something. In came the battlecruisers, and I looked at his overall composition and just started laughing hysterically.
...and then stimmed and the bcs died along with everything else =\ caught him unsieged.
On February 14 2012 03:31 Angel_ wrote: someone did this to me in tvt today.
I did a really defensive, slow 3 rax. (thought he was 1 - 1 - 1 drop w/banshee) Basically i just made a shit ton of marines and mauraders and then waited in my base while having vision outside just in case he was going to siege me or something. In came the battlecruisers, and I looked at his overall composition and just started laughing hysterically.
...and then stimmed and the bcs died along with everything else =\ caught him unsieged.
Rushing for BCs vs P or T is probably pretty bad in almost all games because their standard units can fire vs air. The only reason this works vs Z is that they lack anti air at the start. I remember that some Ts even tried to go with some sort of viking rushes vs Z back in the good old days when scrap station was still in the map pool.
On February 06 2012 08:57 Wortie wrote: I serously don't want this to be popular, please remove this thread. I just watched the vod and it seems like another good terran all-in. My only thoughts are: I have to learn to deal with this shit too???
Here's the vod btw:
No reason to close the thread but yes, another build to add to the guess list when you can't scout terran =[ Oh god.
On February 14 2012 21:08 ODKStevez wrote: No reason to close the thread but yes, another build to add to the guess list when you can't scout terran =[ Oh god.
Are you guys really serious? It's close air positions, you can either sac an overlord or expect an all-in when you dont see an expo by 6 mins....I mean, really - its only close air positions that it's viable anyways.
However, I think its a decent strat, might have to give it a shot in the near future, especially since late game terran is going to be non-existant soon. Also, I would all-in Idra every single time I met him on the ladder just so that I can see him rage quit If he cant make 55 drones before 6 mins then its obviously an abusive OP terran strat, rofl!
On February 14 2012 03:31 Angel_ wrote: someone did this to me in tvt today.
I did a really defensive, slow 3 rax. (thought he was 1 - 1 - 1 drop w/banshee) Basically i just made a shit ton of marines and mauraders and then waited in my base while having vision outside just in case he was going to siege me or something. In came the battlecruisers, and I looked at his overall composition and just started laughing hysterically.
...and then stimmed and the bcs died along with everything else =\ caught him unsieged.
Rushing for BCs vs P or T is probably pretty bad in almost all games because their standard units can fire vs air. The only reason this works vs Z is that they lack anti air at the start. I remember that some Ts even tried to go with some sort of viking rushes vs Z back in the good old days when scrap station was still in the map pool.
Peace Dan
I started doing 1-1-1's against Toss with BC's instead of Banshees just for fun a while go and haven't lost yet in ~8 tries . Feels worse then the standard 1-1-1 since i hit with 2 BC's , 2-3 Tanks and well Marines its pretty delayed but can work if he doesn't know BC's are coming or reacts totally stupid. Pretty sure a Blink build would insta kill me though ^^.
On February 14 2012 03:31 Angel_ wrote: someone did this to me in tvt today.
I did a really defensive, slow 3 rax. (thought he was 1 - 1 - 1 drop w/banshee) Basically i just made a shit ton of marines and mauraders and then waited in my base while having vision outside just in case he was going to siege me or something. In came the battlecruisers, and I looked at his overall composition and just started laughing hysterically.
...and then stimmed and the bcs died along with everything else =\ caught him unsieged.
Rushing for BCs vs P or T is probably pretty bad in almost all games because their standard units can fire vs air. The only reason this works vs Z is that they lack anti air at the start. I remember that some Ts even tried to go with some sort of viking rushes vs Z back in the good old days when scrap station was still in the map pool.
Peace Dan
I started doing 1-1-1's against Toss with BC's instead of Banshees just for fun a while go and haven't lost yet in ~8 tries . Feels worse then the standard 1-1-1 since i hit with 2 BC's , 2-3 Tanks and well Marines its pretty delayed but can work if he doesn't know BC's are coming or reacts totally stupid. Pretty sure a Blink build would insta kill me though ^^.
Hahaha, that sounds pretty badass! :D I guess it works pretty okay since your BCs are really damn hard to kill, forcing more stalkers aswell.. meaning more free kills for your tanks. Who knows, you might be on to something big here ;D
On February 06 2012 14:30 krooked wrote: I tried it close by air on meta. Won easily and I got a lot of hate from the opponent. I don't like to get yelled out so won't be using it much more
You must hate playing as terran then. I get hate no matter what I do, winning, losing, all-ining, macroing, microing... it's actually pretty comical now that I think about it haha.
But on topic, this'll be great, I have major trouble against zerg (for some reason lol), and maybe this will be a build that I can add to my repertoire. Thanks .
I had to offrace a bit as T just to try this. Unfortunately it turned out that I suck big time as T and my execution was so bad that even gold zergs seemed surprisingly prepared for it. Eh...
hey your guide says the push is at 11:30 but Naama moves out a little before 10 minutes and 2nd BC pops at 10 minutes. Game ends before 11:30. I know the time at which you reach your opponent is map dependent, but the 'move out time' shouldn't be
1. you should scout it and be on 2 base 2. its pretty easy to stop if you scout it queens and spores but the secondary all in is the hard part but if you kill everything but the BCs you are fine. You need lings and banelings (I presume).
I did hold this off but im not going to look for the replay. He didn't pull SCVs which if I remember the naama one he did so banelings would help in that case. Pure ling should hold it off if there are no SCVs. If they don't pull SCVs and try to macro out of it and you can't kill all or any of the BCs nydus or build hydra roach to kill them (this happened to me and yes I know hydra suck but against this build they are pretty good).
On February 06 2012 14:30 krooked wrote: I tried it close by air on meta. Won easily and I got a lot of hate from the opponent. I don't like to get yelled out so won't be using it much more
You must hate playing as terran then. I get hate no matter what I do, winning, losing, all-ining, macroing, microing... it's actually pretty comical now that I think about it haha.
But on topic, this'll be great, I have major trouble against zerg (for some reason lol), and maybe this will be a build that I can add to my repertoire. Thanks .
Indeed, it's best when someone totally botches his micro and then starts blaming some random unit "OP".
But yer, love all these hellion opening builds. Makes it really hard for the zerg to make any assumptions without scouting, and then scouting is a bitch with hellions out denying creep and slings. Would love to use BCs more.
I'm a top diamond terran on the EU server and I've been practising this build.
My own observations are as follows; on larger maps this build is difficult, but it still can work. Harassment is not really an option when you have so much distance between bases; so it is best to just move out with two BCs, a handful of Rines, and a tank or two. If your hellions are still alive, they will help.
The general reaction at this point from the Z is to mass zerglings to take out ground force and throw everything against the BCs. It is a great time to build your expansion & pump rines to defend!
Eventually I follow up with either more tank/rine play or... ravens. Yeah, ravens. You have a lot of gas leftover and corruptors are often the go-to for Z's who were planning to mass Mutas. Mass autoturret is great against these combos!
All in all I like this build. Hellions deny the creep and give him the wrong idea. The most difficult thing so far has been hiding the damn fusion core! It works even if it is spotted though.
While I love the idea of mixing in BCs against zerg I feel like so much of this build relys on the Zerg responding inappropriately. Now that this has been become at least a little bit more widespread zergs should understand better that spore/queen will fend off any real harass from the BCs and if they keep their normal ling/bling ground army strong they will stomp over a weak marine/tank push (because of the investment into BCs).
As a side note, has anyone tried mixing in BCs lategame against zerg, either as a counter to broodlords along with vikings or even against a mainly ground ultra/bling comp? Yamato cannon is pretty strong at picking off slowing moving BLs so I feel like it could be viable in less of an all-in setting. Of course this would require you to be on even economy with the zerg going into the late game.
On February 19 2012 04:55 HardCorey wrote: While I love the idea of mixing in BCs against zerg I feel like so much of this build relys on the Zerg responding inappropriately. Now that this has been become at least a little bit more widespread zergs should understand better that spore/queen will fend off any real harass from the BCs and if they keep their normal ling/bling ground army strong they will stomp over a weak marine/tank push (because of the investment into BCs).
As a side note, has anyone tried mixing in BCs lategame against zerg, either as a counter to broodlords along with vikings or even against a mainly ground ultra/bling comp? Yamato cannon is pretty strong at picking off slowing moving BLs so I feel like it could be viable in less of an all-in setting. Of course this would require you to be on even economy with the zerg going into the late game.
Late game battlecruisers is not really a great transition. You would have to build a fusion core, extra starports, and deal with the long build time. The Zerg can easily just pump a few extra corruptors to deal with it. Also, wouldn't bcs do terrible against ultras due to their armor? I guess they could Yamato cannon them, but overall I feel like relying on Vikings now that ghosts are useless is the way to go. It's just going to be difficult with the switching between broods and ultras. I feel like you would have to be way ahead to utilize bcs late game. And then you will be behind....because you invested in bcs and they got killed by corruptors. It's just not easy for Terran to make reactive tech switches. As reactive as it gets is throwing down tech labs and making ghosts, or adding starports for Vikings.
EPT
If he cant make 55 drones before 6 mins then its obviously an abusive OP terran strat, rofl!
