EPTWould definitely convinced me if your race was displayed on the loading screen.
[D] VS Random ? - Page 8
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Would definitely convinced me if your race was displayed on the loading screen. | ||
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gabapenteado
Brazil37 Posts
Whenever people ask me which race i'm playing, i always tell them, and it doesn't cost you nothing to ask. PS: Anyone else thinks that the race that the random spawns should be shown on the loading screen? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23732 Posts
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MrAverage
19 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:09 gabapenteado wrote: As a random player, i can give you a brilliant strategy: ask. Whenever people ask me which race i'm playing, i always tell them, and it doesn't cost you nothing to ask. PS: Anyone else thinks that the race that the random spawns should be shown on the loading screen? What happens usually is that you won't believe the guy anyway. However, personally if the random player gave me his race without me asking for it ("gl hf gg I'm Terran  "), I would believe him. If he lied, well, I'm sorry for you randoms, to have such douchebags among your ranks | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
For example P vs random on tal darim. Vs T my to go build there is 16 nex, vs P it's 12 gate into 4 gate or something and vs Z it's FFE. Even if i 9 scout I will likely not find them on time so all I can do is some crappy gate+core opening which is already very frustating for 2 out of the 3 matchups. Whatever build you choose you either autolose a matchup or are just massively behind. Random is alright and all but doesn't just everybody agree that the race should be shown on the loading screen? Why should someone's desire to play random utterly annoy the player he is facing. | ||
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phame21
Australia43 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:09 gabapenteado wrote: As a random player, i can give you a brilliant strategy: ask. Whenever people ask me which race i'm playing, i always tell them, and it doesn't cost you nothing to ask. PS: Anyone else thinks that the race that the random spawns should be shown on the loading screen? Why tell them? The point of playing random is that they can't predict your opening move. | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
As zerg I think you can get away with 14h/14p, it's honestly the safest race against random as many people have said. Playing tal darim is freaking awfull though. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:17 phame21 wrote: Why tell them? The point of playing random is that they can't predict your opening move. You're not a random player, are you? :D "What is Random for you?" [Random player: ] I'm a master of all three races, I like to deepen my knowledge of the game and knowing every build and matchup there is. I think that I'm that much more skilled than my opponents because these guys...wait for it...picked their race because they liked it, hahaha. Fucking racists. [Non random player: ] Bah, I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable not knowing what I'm up against but it's not that bad. I mean I know they cheese like 90% of the time but it's good practice against cheese anyway. You just have to have a solid build, but of course you autolose 33% and are behind 80% of the time. Those cheeky bastards just fucking proxy some shit on the map like they own the place. Screw those scumbags. | ||
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Zariel
Australia1277 Posts
1) Heightened sense on dealing with cheesy builds (follows onto the next point), ie: pressure handling 2) Requires you to shift some focus on scouting and helps build better reads on opponents (even though they might be in silver/gold league) 3) Trains you split-second decision making, more particularly, you have to change your build order on the spot and adapt to the race your playing against I actually like playing as Random sometimes and I laugh when I meet another Random player too. Spawn as Zerg and your just so curious... "what race is he??, he can't be zerg as well... can he?!?!", then BAM your both Zerg and probably the same thoughts crossed each others mind. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
I'm happy for the other player to play random, and I dislike making the game not enjoyable for him, but it's a waste of my time. I just basic 12gate 4gate, unless I scout Terran with wall off -> change to 3gate voidray. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
1) "People pick random do exploit a minor advantage" Myself and the random players I know choose random because it is FUN. If you think for a second that players wouldn't win more often with their best race every game versus playing 3 races and 9 matchups you are nuts. 2) "All random players cheese". Sure, plenty of random players cheese. Guess what, so do a lot of zerg, terran, and toss players. And as a random player, I get cheesed FAR more often than I do as Zerg or Terran. FWIW, the only cheese I prefer as random is "macro cheese". 1 rax CC, 1gate expo or 14 nexus, 15 hatch, etc... 3) "Random players are bm" You wouldn't believe the kind of sht people say when games start. If I had a dollar for every time someone called me a skill-less faggot after I offer up a glhf, I'd be a wealthy man. 4) "Random is easy and takes no skill". Completely false. I don't know optimal builds/timings/styles with my off races like people that play one race do, so I have to win by out-macroing my opponents as random. I was top 8 master 2 seasons ago before messing around with random, and now I hover around high diamond and low master. The real question is, why do you hypocrites complain about random players and their cheesy one base all ins but then blindly go all in yourself? If you are really the better player, you would take a very standard, cheese-safe opening like 14gas/14pool and overcome the minor econ advantage your opponent might have gotten by econ cheesing you. For all those that say it's easy, shouldn't be part of the game etc... try it. Your MMR will drop. Your ranking will drop. But you will have a whole lot of fun exploring other races. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43759 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:16 Markwerf wrote: Playing as protoss vs a random frustates me so much on some maps. For example P vs random on tal darim. Vs T my to go build there is 16 nex, vs P it's 12 gate into 4 gate or something and vs Z it's FFE. Even if i 9 scout I will likely not find them on time so all I can do is some crappy gate+core opening which is already very frustating for 2 out of the 3 matchups. Whatever build you choose you either autolose a matchup or are just massively behind. Random is alright and all but doesn't just everybody agree that the race should be shown on the loading screen? Why should someone's desire to play random utterly annoy the player he is facing. This is exactly my problem (PvR), and TDA is the map that epitomizes my frustration. The opening builds are so different depending on the match-up. Even the starting pylon is put in different places. Either you start building in front of your natural and your shit gets sniped by ranged units from the wrong race, or you sim city in your main and you fall behind Zerg because you didn't FE and now there's lings running around inside your base. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16032 Posts
On January 19 2012 07:56 Troxle wrote: Playing versus random doesn't change anything. If anything it forces you to be less greedy and play safer. On large maps they have advantage because scouts come later, but be safe and just 14/14 as zerg (its optimal in 2/3 matchups don't risk the 33.33333% chance). Go 9 pylon 12/13 gate and wall the ramp. Terran has it easysince they tend to 10-12-13 every matchup anyways, where they gonext, well that's why you scout. Playing versus random proves you know your race. If they cheese, what would change if you knew their race beforehand. Random isn't a shroud to hide an all-in, but instead to either unnerve the opponent or an indecisive person as far as race goes. Don't think every random person as an all-in player, just be smart and play defensive/safe. If you lose, watch the replay, and ask yourself "How well did I scout? Would knowing the race prior to building my first worker have changed anything?" If you can't change your build order to react to your opponent, why do you play a RTS? The game is constantly evolving, adapt and overcome. Pretty much everything this guy said is correct. If you lost against a random player for any reason, either you got all inned or you got beat out in a straight up macro game where the Random player had the slightest of leads at the beginning. Either way you lost because you obviously didn't know the match up as well as you think you do. If the only way you can beat a Zerg is to FFE well then you need to admit to yourself that you're helpless in PvZ without a FFE before you start to bash random players. If the only way you can beat a Terran as Zerg is with a 15 hatch then obviously you aren't as good at macroing in the midgame as you should be because without the early worker lead Zerg automatically gets with a 15 hatch you're helpless. The list goes on. Any slight disadvantage you might suffer when you don't know you're opponent's race is equalled by the Random player who has to learn the timings and build orders of 9 match ups as opposed to 3. He's walking into the match with an inherent deficit in experience because he has to play 3 times as many games in order to equal the experience you've gained playing on the ladder. Don't blame Random for your loss, same as everything in this game, focus on your own play first. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16032 Posts
On January 19 2012 07:19 Wombat_NI wrote: I posted earlier, but would you as a random player object to your race being revealed i.e in the loading screen if you rolled Protoss it would have your Bnet name, Random (Protoss)? If you genuinely want to play all 3 races in a standard way, you should surely not want the distortion that comes with the vRandom mindset that has to be adopted by your opponent? I would argue against it just because on principle i think it's bullshit that people have the audacity to complain about their own disadvantages against Random players when playing Random in straight up macro games is by far the most difficult way to play this game. There's a reason you NEVER see Random players in major tournaments even though the rules allow for it, and there's reasons why prominent random players in the past like TLO and Gumiho have been forced to pick a single race. Playing Random is hard! I'm not saying I NEED the random advantage to survive on the ladder, and if my race was shown at the start of the screeen I'd probably still play random but I think i'm justified in having it because I SHOULD already be at a disadvantage walking into every single game. I understand that losing to cheese sucks, and I understand that losing to vs Random cheese probably sucks more because it gives you one more excuse why you lost instead of blaming yourself for own level of play, but slapping our race on the loading screen will not reduce the rate some randoms cheese and will not improve your overall experience on the ladder. So why bother? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16032 Posts
On January 19 2012 13:26 kofman wrote: i have absolutely no respect for randoms. i bm every random i find as hard as i can, because they take advantage of a broken system. seriously, on a map like tal'darim, you have to scout on 8 as Terran, which is insanely early and makes ur economy so much worse. also, theres a 1/3 chance that ur opponent spawned on the place you checked last, meaning that you can't do a particular build like reactored hellion tvz or maruder expand tvp, instead you have to do some tweaner build that is bad vs both zerg and protoss so that you don't autolose, since reactored hellion expand is terrible vs protoss. they should really make it so that random's race is displayed in the beginning, so that they don't autowin a good percentage of their games just because you happenned to spawn in the location that was checked last. So it's our fault that you're helpless in a matchup without a specific opening? Terran players have the least right to complain about the random advantage. Protoss I can least moderately understand, but if you only know ONE opening per match up as Terran then you rely more on gimmicks than any random player does. To put it into perspective. I use 3 different TvZ openings 2 different ZvT openings 3 different ZvP openings 3 different ZvZ openings 3 different PvT openings 3 different PvP openings 3 different PvZ openings 4 different TvP openings 5 different TvT openings. = 29 openings I have memorized and have to practice. You're telling me you're helpless if you have to learn more than 3? | ||
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Lysergic
United States355 Posts
Unfortunately, a lot of people have the mindset that random players always cheese. I'm random and always open 15 Hatch, 1RaxFE, and FFE or 1GateFE or 3GateRobo(PvP). I haven't faced enough randoms to make up generalizations like the OP, but many of the randoms I face don't all-in. However, I frequently play against cheese from all races on ladder. Here's a screenshot of a SC2Gears multi-replay analysis of all my ladder 1v1s from Season 2 through Season 5: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7HhIW.jpg) I lose most games under 15 min long; people all-in me all the time. My win rate increases as the game length increases. I win about 20% of the games under 10 minutes long. Yet I win 60-70% of games 20-40 min long. So much for the "randoms always all-in" and "randoms can't macro" theories. The OP's reasoning doesn't make sense. You justify your 7 pool by using an example of one game you happened to win. You went 7 pool and outplayed a random who went 6 pool. So what? You could of beat him by going 14/14, and if he did any other all-in or was Terran or Protoss, your 7 pool most likely would of lost, while a 14/14 can hold any all-in. Playing vs randoms isn't even a problem as Zerg. On most maps, Zerg scouts the opponent so easily with their first overlord and a drone scout if necessary. Most of the time, you'll scout them (or they'll scout you) before 15 supply. It's only unfair for Protoss to play against randoms, especially on Forge FE maps (Tal'darim etc). And it can be annoying for Terran's that don't know whether to get a refinery at 13 or go 1 Rax FE. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16032 Posts
On January 19 2012 13:52 lysergic wrote: I play random, and I occasionally tell my opponent what race I am at the start of the game. I always tell my Protoss opponents what race I am on maps they could Forge FE on; it's a waste of both of our times when my opponent is forced into playing differently. I play ladder to improve, I don't care about winning. Unfortunately, a lot of people have the mindset that random players always cheese. I'm random and always open 15 Hatch, 1RaxFE, and FFE or 1GateFE or 3GateRobo(PvP). I haven't faced enough randoms to make up generalizations like the OP, but many of the randoms I face don't all-in. However, I frequently play against cheese from all races on ladder. Here's a screenshot of a SC2Gears multi-replay analysis of all my ladder 1v1s from Season 2 through Season 5: I lose most games under 15 min long; people all-in me all the time. My win rate increases as the game length increases. I win about 20% of the games under 10 minutes long. Yet I win 60-70% of games 20-40 min long. So much for the "randoms always all-in" and "randoms can't macro" theories. The OP's reasoning doesn't make sense. You justify your 7 pool by using an example of one game you happened to win. You went 7 pool and outplayed a random who went 6 pool. So what? You could of beat him by going 14/14, and if he did any other all-in or was Terran or Protoss, your 7 pool most likely would of lost, while a 14/14 can hold any all-in. Playing vs randoms isn't even a problem as Zerg. On most maps, Zerg scouts the opponent so easily with their first overlord and a drone scout if necessary. Most of the time, you'll scout them (or they'll scout you) before 15 supply. It's only unfair for Protoss to play against randoms, especially on Forge FE maps (Tal'darim etc). And it can be annoying for Terran's that don't know whether to get a refinery at 13 or go 1 Rax FE. You can go gas at 13 in every match up. Marauder expands and Reactored Hellion openings are standard in TvP and TvZ and both use gas at 13 and there's like 12 different TvT openings that do also. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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