EPT[D] VS Random ? - Page 10
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On January 19 2012 16:21 kofman wrote: No, even if you scout after depot, there is no way to see what race they are if they spawn on the 3rd position you check on tal'darim before you have to take your 13 gas. tvp i gasless expand and tvz and tvt i do 111, if i don't scout random on either 1st or 2nd position, i have to take a guess whether the random is protoss, zerg, or terran. basically, if the opponent turns out to be protoss and i take gas, i lose. if my opponent is zerg or terran and i don't take gas, i lose. its a coinflip. I BM randoms for a reason. its because they start the game with an unfair advantage, something that even scouting doesn't help sometimes. In what matchup, and against what build is a one rax expand autoloss on big maps? If you seriously only have one build for each matchup you deserve that loss, because as terran you can do all sorts of builds that are viable in all matchups. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:04 kyllinghest wrote: In what matchup, and against what build is a one rax expand autoloss on big maps? If you seriously only have one build for each matchup you deserve that loss, because as terran you can do all sorts of builds that are viable in all matchups. 1 build per MU deserves a loss? Ignoring that little bit of retardation, his first point is good. You can 1 rax FE on all maps against all races, especially big maps. Just 1 rax FE vs any random, you need to learn to hold cheese anyway, playing against a random means you know its more likely the cheese will come. Also about most randoms cheesing, and most randoms on TL saying they dont. Both are probably true. The TL are just the vocal minority, the vast majoirty of randoms dont post on TL, and in most peoples experience, most R cheese. Also 14/14 is really bad on small maps against terran. Have fun holding a dedicated 2 rax. I also ask every game. Most R will tell you. Some will be dicks and lie, but if they have lied and you scout it, its almost 100% they will cheese you so its almost better then them telling the truth. | ||
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Oliveran
Sweden72 Posts
Else, just play normal after your 14/14! | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:26 Oliveran wrote: It's called "14/14", the theoretically best opening. And if the T/P goes for a fast-expand, go and double expand behind your speed-ling pressure. Else, just play normal after your 14/14! 14/14 is not the best opening vs T. Thats just wrong. Sorry if you meant ZvZ only  | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
Don't worry. Don't hate. Let them call us cheeser. Let them blame us for always allining. I take full advantage of said stereotypes. I open my games by writing "good luck and have fun buddy" "you got good weather?" "how are you?" "you watch tourny XY?". They will get even more scared as more you chat with them. If you are not that evil and are that nice to be willingly to tell your race at start: i always put together some lil cute riddles to get them hints to my race, much fun! :D Dear OP: Get your scouttimings right. Often your are able to scout before you need to make the decision to go 15h/15p or whatever. In general (im dia with zerg, playing vs dia on my random acc) i would suggest a 15p. Really "behind" are you only when facing terrans and thats just siginificantly. And this you should only do if you scout him last. Try it out, get on every map and stop the time your worker needs to check the close&cross spawn. If you didn't scout him untill then -> 15pool. Just my 2 cents. | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:51 aebriol wrote: I just 6 pool every game vs random. And I guess you are one those guys who cries the most that randomers are ONLY cheesing AND allining eh? Good luck. Next time maybe contribute something usefull to threads in the strategy forum. | ||
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phame21
Australia43 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:30 ZenithM wrote: You're not a random player, are you? :D "What is Random for you?" [Random player: ] I'm a master of all three races, I like to deepen my knowledge of the game and knowing every build and matchup there is. I think that I'm that much more skilled than my opponents because these guys...wait for it...picked their race because they liked it, hahaha. Fucking racists. [Non random player: ] Bah, I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable not knowing what I'm up against but it's not that bad. I mean I know they cheese like 90% of the time but it's good practice against cheese anyway. You just have to have a solid build, but of course you autolose 33% and are behind 80% of the time. Those cheeky bastards just fucking proxy some shit on the map like they own the place. Screw those scumbags. I am a random masters player. and u, sir, are a douchebag. u dont know the meaning of random apparently | ||
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Immutant
Singapore201 Posts
On January 19 2012 13:52 lysergic wrote: I play random, and I occasionally tell my opponent what race I am at the start of the game. I always tell my Protoss opponents what race I am on maps they could Forge FE on; it's a waste of both of our times when my opponent is forced into playing differently. I play ladder to improve, I don't care about winning. Unfortunately, a lot of people have the mindset that random players always cheese. I'm random and always open 15 Hatch, 1RaxFE, and FFE or 1GateFE or 3GateRobo(PvP). I haven't faced enough randoms to make up generalizations like the OP, but many of the randoms I face don't all-in. However, I frequently play against cheese from all races on ladder. Here's a screenshot of a SC2Gears multi-replay analysis of all my ladder 1v1s from Season 2 through Season 5: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7HhIW.jpg) Indeed, the generalization that randoms's can't play a proper macro game is wrong. Some randoms cheese, others prefer a macro game. Below are my stats. By pure coincidence, it seems that I have a 100% win rate after 30 mins and the best timing for my opponent to attack lategame would be at the 25-30 min mark, where he'll have a good 50-50 chance of winning. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b44yN.jpg) Much of my early game loses come from this: "glhf, mind telling me your race?" "I am race X" 5 mins later Some race specific cheeseeeee "gg" That is probably the macro random weakness. Because they are so used to the opponent playing safe (or doing a lousy cheese with no info), they will not be able to react to race specific early game pressure. But in the mid game, they should have scouted the opponent's build and reacted accordingly. I think mastery of the zerg race is very useful. 1 Zerg sense of timing and danger 2 Macro Then abuse the knowledge (use what your fear will be used against you on your opponent) and win. Against another random, I just put on my game face, and think "may the best random win". And do a safe build. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:59 phame21 wrote: I am a random masters player. and u, sir, are a douchebag. u dont know the meaning of random apparently Huh you apparently misunderstood my post, I was only parodying what people think of randoms players. Regardless, you're only consolidating the idea that you play random precisely to do some shady bullshit then? I didn't hope for that much so thanks to you sir, that's what all non randoms want to prove in this thread since the first page :D I open my games by writing "good luck and have fun buddy" "you got good weather?" "how are you?" "you watch tourny XY?". They will get even more scared as more you chat with them. If you are not that evil and are that nice to be willingly to tell your race at start: i always put together some lil cute riddles to get them hints to my race, much fun! :D It's funny how it fits so well with the mental image I have of random players, which I already shared in this thread: + Show Spoiler + it must be very pleasant to play every single game against an opponent scared shitless of "what the hell this clown is going to throw at him" (It's exactly my thoughts when I play versus random :D, don't take it personally, I just imagine some guy clothed like a clown with multiple colors, trying to throw at you magic tricks and unfunny jokes :D) | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:22 Squigly wrote: 1 build per MU deserves a loss? Ignoring that little bit of retardation, his first point is good. Im sorry we have a different opinion, but that doesnt in anyways make me retarded. I strongly believe that if you can't manage to mix up your builds as a terran vs random you don't deserve to win versus said random player who has to juggle way more builds. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On January 19 2012 23:07 ZenithM wrote: Huh you apparently misunderstood my post, I was only parodying what people think of randoms players. Regardless, you're only consolidating the idea that you play random precisely to do some shady bullshit then? I didn't hope for that much so thanks to you sir, that's what all non randoms want to prove in this thread since the first page :D It's funny how it fits so well with the mental image I have of random players, which I already shared in this thread: + Show Spoiler + it must be very pleasant to play every single game against an opponent scared shitless of "what the hell this clown is going to throw at him" (It's exactly my thoughts when I play versus random :D, don't take it personally, I just imagine some guy clothed like a clown with multiple colors, trying to throw at you magic tricks and unfunny jokes :D) You are misinterpreting something. It is not my mindset, i just take advantage of the enemies mindset. When I play on my main account as zerg and face random i'll be more relaxed than playing vs a specific race. Why? Because the only thing i need to be scared of is that i fail to scout correctly(by that i mean: my base and proxy positions) otherwise I feel I'm in an advantage. If the mindset is so disturbed by the fact that you can't trust in your superior skill of playing/focusing on one race, it is not the random players fault. Just your own. edit: typo | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1299 Posts
and ofcourse, ice fisher is quite safe aswell. | ||
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On January 19 2012 22:55 bluQ wrote: And I guess you are one those guys who cries the most that randomers are ONLY cheesing AND allining eh? Good luck. Next time maybe contribute something usefull to threads in the strategy forum. And I guess you are one of those people who can't read. Or are just plain old stupid and don't comprehend what you are reading. The original post includes the question 'How do you play against random players on the ladder ?' as a conclusion, and I answered it. Maybe the thread itself should have been closed if the moderators felt it wasn't useful, since it's basically a poll about how people respond to facing a random player. But my contribution is actually on topic 100%. In addition, I don't complain or cry about randoms or how they only cheese or all in ... I don't like playing them because I want to practice specific matchups, so I just 6 pool, and I don't do whatever you said. If you could read, you would have seen that I didn't. So in other words, next time, you should learn to read before you answer a post. So maybe you understood what the fuck you were responding to. | ||
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Muppetz
Germany47 Posts
 That is the main reason i play random, besides not wanting to be settled on one race.If somebody asks me, what race i got, i will answer truly - no point in lying imo. Playing for fun, right? On January 19 2012 23:11 kyllinghest wrote: Im sorry we have a different opinion, but that doesnt in anyways make me retarded. I strongly believe that if you can't manage to mix up your builds as a terran vs random you don't deserve to win versus said random player who has to juggle way more builds. kinda have to agree with u on this | ||
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OceanLab
France505 Posts
On a side note, some of the random players actually tell you what race they randomed, as long as you ask. And they've never lied (so far^^) | ||
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LuisFrost
Mexico130 Posts
I tried announcing it at the start as some people here say, but in return people get MORE paranoid, and therefore start a worse BM than if I just ignore them, "if u say ur race ur not dat race u cheesy random n00b". So, at least for me in the NA ladder it's not a pleasant option. The problem would go away if your race was revealed in the opening screen; I'm OK with that idea. As some people say, TDA is terrible vsR. Still, very few people ask for my race and I always tell the truth. Sometimes I play randoms, when they lie about their race you'll find out fast enough to start preparing for something fishy (unless it's TDA, of course). So please guys, I BEG YOU, spread hate against randoms only after you see what happens if you ask for the race. If after that experiment most of us DO turn out to be cheese evil scumbags... well, guess I'll have to start wearing punk hairstyles or something. PD: Until I get my panda decal I won't roll a dice. Sorry for playing the game I paid for in the way I find it the most rewarding. | ||
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