|
On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea
You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault.
I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled?
|
Why do you assume I'm one of those people? I'm trying to stay as neutral as I can and I proposed a solution that would solve everyone's bitching which you then shot down and basically said there is no problem (which I agree with). Sorry that I offended you and I don't think there is anything else to discuss - I see no point in defending an idea when the real issue is whether the problem exists or not
|
Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me 
|
KoreanGhost was polite and logical. Rd hurls ad hominem insults and gets emotional. Don't bother trying to reason with such persons.
|
On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me
Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins.
|
On January 03 2013 18:06 Prugelhugel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 08:00 Henk wrote:
I don't understand the complaints. In my, say, 50 games against random players, at least 90% answered when I asked them what race they were; not once have I been lied against. Random players want to improve their skills with their races, which they can only do by playing a completely 'fair' game. As a Random telling races, I can also say that 90% of the people believe me. But about every second Random I meet either lies or doesn't tell anyways. And I think that this is even worse in lower leagues. edit: And btw, the reason why I play Random isn't the slight advantage, I do it because: - It is way more fun, you stop taking laddergames that serious (Because you are way better/worse in some matchups than your actual ranking says. This means you can play very relaxed because you know you are going to win or lose anyways. But it's always cool if it's the other way around). - If someone raceflames you at the end of the game, you always feel superior. - You know matchups from both perspectives and you don't get stuck in the "this strategy my opponent used is unbeatable" mindset.- People always seem to think that they can't lose in mirror matches against Randoms. As a result, I got to taste of the sweetest tears ever. - You HAVE to play normal macro games, you can't go for really greedy builds or allins (If you don't know your opponent) If I didn't switch to Random I'd still be the cheesy/allinish bm Zerg I used to be. :D But now my SC2gears-wordcloud lists a lot of wp's, gg's and "<---Zerg/Terran/Protoss".
Bolded part is one of the main reasons I play Random. Other than that, it's just for fun.
I always tell my race truthfully to people who ask, although I don't give the information if they don't ask.
To all the people that hate playing against Random because of the 'information disadvantage' which can lead to a possible build order disadvantage, you can use Random opponents to practice how to play against a mechanically inferior player who happens to have an advantage because of his build order. Being behind because of a build order is very common at the highest levels as well, it's what you do with that disadvantage that determines whether you can come back or whether it snowballs out of (your) control.
|
On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled?
Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great.
|
I play random because I want to learn all of the different matchups. This means I'm playing standard but it also means that I want my opponent to play as he normally would.
So to get around the problem I always reveal my race at the start. That way my opponent (assuming he believes me) can play his standard opening.
It would be nice if there was an option to select race randomly, but reveal the race on the loading screen.
|
On January 03 2013 22:39 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins.
Random wins are free and lucky? There are probably tens of thousands of players (protoss) rated higher than you who have ascended beyond the asymptote which random ceases to exist almost entirely in the upper levels of ladder. They didn't get there by blaming all their problems on the game rather than themselves.
On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great.
What kind of question is that? If you want to beat random players with any remote consistency you will generally benefit from learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race. Why the fuck else would you learn such a build? Why should anyone learn to beat ANYTHING? It EXISTS and has to be DEALT with. It's the nature of the match-up. If you don't like it, that's fine; That's an opinion. But acknowledge the problem lies with you and not random.
|
On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great.
either learn it and win, or don't learn it and continue to whine and lose. your choice.
|
As a terran i don't mind playing vs random players. The only matchup it causes a problem with for me is protoss, because i normally do a funky CC first 6rax thing, but if i play against random i end up doing a 1rax expand because its safer. Then again, if a random player can succesfully deal with a good terran medivac timing, then they deserve to win, simple.
! rax expand can deal with most cheeses, whether you go mech (vs zerg) or bio (vs toss).
Speaking from a gold level perspective, of course.
|
On January 04 2013 02:28 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 22:39 Salient wrote:On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins. Random wins are free and lucky? There are probably tens of thousands of players (protoss) rated higher than you who have ascended beyond the asymptote which random ceases to exist almost entirely in the upper levels of ladder. They didn't get there by blaming all their problems on the game rather than themselves. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great. What kind of question is that? If you want to beat random players with any remote consistency you will generally benefit from learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race. Why the fuck else would you learn such a build? Why should anyone learn to beat ANYTHING? It EXISTS and has to be DEALT with. It's the nature of the match-up. If you don't like it, that's fine; That's an opinion. But acknowledge the problem lies with you and not random.
1."learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race" Random isn't a race. Random doesn't have any units, any RvX builds, etc. Random is just the game picking a race for you and giving the random player the option to withhold the information of what race he's playing at the beginning of the game. There's no such thing as playing against "Random", it's just playing against T/P/Z with out the ability to know what race they are from the beginning of the game, eliminating the ability for the non-random player to choose match up specific openers.
2."It exist and has to be dealt with" Again, just because something exist doesn't mean that it should continue to do so or that people should just "deal with it". By your logic, why can't random players just deal with having their race relieved, or both players having their race's hidden instead of just one?
You still didn't answer my question, why do random players deserve to avoid match up specific early game builds from their opponents while having that option available to them?
|
On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great.
What about Random vs Random?
|
On January 04 2013 11:08 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 02:28 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 22:39 Salient wrote:On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins. Random wins are free and lucky? There are probably tens of thousands of players (protoss) rated higher than you who have ascended beyond the asymptote which random ceases to exist almost entirely in the upper levels of ladder. They didn't get there by blaming all their problems on the game rather than themselves. On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great. What kind of question is that? If you want to beat random players with any remote consistency you will generally benefit from learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race. Why the fuck else would you learn such a build? Why should anyone learn to beat ANYTHING? It EXISTS and has to be DEALT with. It's the nature of the match-up. If you don't like it, that's fine; That's an opinion. But acknowledge the problem lies with you and not random. 1."learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race" Random isn't a race. Random doesn't have any units, any RvX builds, etc. Random is just the game picking a race for you and giving the random player the option to withhold the information of what race he's playing at the beginning of the game. There's no such thing as playing against "Random", it's just playing against T/P/Z with out the ability to know what race they are from the beginning of the game, eliminating the ability for the non-random player to choose match up specific openers. 2."It exist and has to be dealt with" Again, just because something exist doesn't mean that it should continue to do so or that people should just "deal with it". By your logic, why can't random players just deal with having their race relieved, or both players having their race's hidden instead of just one? You still didn't answer my question, why do random players deserve to avoid match up specific early game builds from their opponents while having that option available to them?
Maybe they don't deserve that. So don't play against them... Ladder points aren't very important, so just quit when you come up against random.
Simple.
Or alternatively, if you WANT to play against random players, because you want the ladder points, learn a safe all purpose build.
To be honest, it doesn't matter what someone else deserves and what they don't, it is irrelevant. To be honest if it makes you that upset, you should chill a bit. I don't see how it could ruin your enjoyment of the game, just see it as a different kind of challenge.
|
[G]VS Random
On ladder and in forum you will occasionally find yourself dealing with a Random player. Anyone could occasionally play random, but there are certain people who are Random Players. One must know ones enemy, so what can be known about them?
On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese.
So we learn that random players all belong to a specific underclass of bottom dweller who
- Screw up games.
- Don't really want to play all 3 races.
- Do really want to cheese.
On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:
This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match.
No no, not at all. How dare any bottom dweller question your intentions? You are allowed to question their intentions, declare them in fact, but not the other way around. Next time though, when you say it's not about you, try not to mention yourself so often straight afterwards.
If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly.
If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to.
Update:
Random players all belong to a specific underclass of bottom dweller who
- Screw up games.
- Don't really want to play all 3 races, and most are liars.
- Do really want to cheese. Proof: there is no other reason.
Does everyone understand the ground rules? Does everyone understand everything there is to know about bottom dwelling, lying, game spoiling, cheesing, motive hiding, liars who have no other reason to be cheese dwelling, game liars except they enjoy cheese filled bottoms?
Good, with the foundation set we can look at a case study.
Allow me to introduce Mateshade:
On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:
I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people
He has stated opinions contrary to everything Emzeeshady has so kindly taught us about Random Players. Furthermore, and this will blow your mind, "I play randmo" is not a typo! He even lies when he says what race he plays!
On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:
pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options.
Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game?
With rapier like thrusts and parries Emzeeshady has vanquished the foe. Declaring him to be a game spoiler for thrills, the light of truth is shone and the darkness must flee.
Note our hero was not drawn on any specifics. Simpler to declare that the bottom dweller is pulling stuff out of a hat and leave the burden of proof on him.
On December 28 2012 15:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
A lot of randoms tell me their race but I can't trust them because like 25% lie about it...
Now seems a good time to explain the exception to the 'pull stuff out of hats' and 'burden of proof' rules.
The exception is: if you are not a bottom dwelling, cheese seeking, darkness hiding girl's blouse.
I trust this summary of this thread, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that has been useful. Now you will be better prepared to deal with Random players on forum, if not on ladder. Somewhere in that last sentence is the answer to why there are so many of these damn threads.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 14:18 SixtusTheFifth wrote:[G]VS Random
On ladder and in forum you will occasionally find yourself dealing with a Random player. Anyone could occasionally play random, but there are certain people who are Random Players. One must know ones enemy, so what can be known about them? Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. So we learn that random players all belong to a specific underclass of bottom dweller who - Screw up games.
- Don't really want to play all 3 races.
- Do really want to cheese.
Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:
This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. No no, not at all. How dare any bottom dweller question your intentions? You are allowed to question their intentions, declare them in fact, but not the other way around. Next time though, when you say it's not about you, try not to mention yourself so often straight afterwards. Show nested quote +If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly.
If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. Update: Random players all belong to a specific underclass of bottom dweller who - Screw up games.
- Don't really want to play all 3 races, and most are liars.
- Do really want to cheese. Proof: there is no other reason.
Does everyone understand the ground rules? Does everyone understand everything there is to know about bottom dwelling, lying, game spoiling, cheesing, motive hiding, liars who have no other reason to be cheese dwelling, game liars except they enjoy cheese filled bottoms? Good, with the foundation set we can look at a case study.
Allow me to introduce Mateshade: Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:
I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people He has stated opinions contrary to everything Emzeeshady has so kindly taught us about Random Players. Furthermore, and this will blow your mind, "I play randmo" is not a typo! He even lies when he says what race he plays! Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:
pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options.
Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? With rapier like thrusts and parries Emzeeshady has vanquished the foe. Declaring him to be a game spoiler for thrills, the light of truth is shone and the darkness must flee. Note our hero was not drawn on any specifics. Simpler to declare that the bottom dweller is pulling stuff out of a hat and leave the burden of proof on him. Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 15:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
A lot of randoms tell me their race but I can't trust them because like 25% lie about it... Now seems a good time to explain the exception to the 'pull stuff out of hats' and 'burden of proof' rules. The exception is: if you are not a bottom dwelling, cheese seeking, darkness hiding girl's blouse. I trust this summary of this thread, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that, and the thread before that has been useful. Now you will be better prepared to deal with Random players on forum, if not on ladder. Somewhere in that last sentence is the answer to why there are so many of these damn threads.
Lolll!
I think we found a winner!
You are a god amongst men my friend.
|
I used to play just Terran. Got to plat in EU, but i started raging after losing one or two games. "This and that is impossible! IMBA IMBA IMBA"
Since i recently got a lot less time to spend on SC2 i decided to switch to random and just try to have fun. Sometimes i cheese (Protoss are more difficult to learn than i expected, though Zerg was easier), but mostly i try to play macro games. I've recently started to just go for it and try to do carrier/ms rushes with Protoss XD
The thing that baffled me though was that at one point i was on a 7 loss streak... And no rage, no nothing. I just kept going. I would have destroyed my keyboard at this point if i was playing just terran 0-o
I'm very likely to be down to gold again, maybe even silver when i play my placement match later, but i honestly don't mind. Going random allowed me to just have fun and not worry about stuff like 'rank' and 'win/loss' 
|
I seem to have an underlying desire to play the race that is percieved as UP at the time. I used to do it in every strategy game I ever played, I started with Z in SC2 because of how strong people thought the marine SCV all in was but after the whole 'patchzerg' rubbish I decided to play Random, now nobody can question me... now Random is OP according to a lot of people in this thread.
|
On January 04 2013 11:08 kill619 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 02:28 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 22:39 Salient wrote:On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins. Random wins are free and lucky? There are probably tens of thousands of players (protoss) rated higher than you who have ascended beyond the asymptote which random ceases to exist almost entirely in the upper levels of ladder. They didn't get there by blaming all their problems on the game rather than themselves. On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great. What kind of question is that? If you want to beat random players with any remote consistency you will generally benefit from learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race. Why the fuck else would you learn such a build? Why should anyone learn to beat ANYTHING? It EXISTS and has to be DEALT with. It's the nature of the match-up. If you don't like it, that's fine; That's an opinion. But acknowledge the problem lies with you and not random. 1."learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race" Random isn't a race. Random doesn't have any units, any RvX builds, etc. Random is just the game picking a race for you and giving the random player the option to withhold the information of what race he's playing at the beginning of the game. There's no such thing as playing against "Random", it's just playing against T/P/Z with out the ability to know what race they are from the beginning of the game, eliminating the ability for the non-random player to choose match up specific openers. 2."It exist and has to be dealt with" Again, just because something exist doesn't mean that it should continue to do so or that people should just "deal with it". By your logic, why can't random players just deal with having their race relieved, or both players having their race's hidden instead of just one? You still didn't answer my question, why do random players deserve to avoid match up specific early game builds from their opponents while having that option available to them?
1. Now we know where your problem is: You don't understand that random is a race. Random poses a problem which requires you to approach it with a solution unique from the other three traditional races. You have two choices in this regard: Accept that random has to be treated like a separate race to be played against properly, or embrace incompetence wasting effort to argue some asinine ideological point that accomplishes nothing.
No shit it doesn't have the qualities of a traditional race. It's still a race in the sense it's qualities warrant enough differences to require a completely different playstyle.
2. And heres the other problem: No one cares what you think. Just because in your opinion it shouldn't continue to exist, doesn't mean your argument is granted amnesty and random should be removed. It's futile even attempting to address this because it'd simply acknowledge the implicit correctitude in which you speak to; the presumptuous confusion that asserts your opinion as fact. I can't re-iterate enough the fact that tens of thousands of players have gotten over the asymptotic point which random ceases to even exist in ladder. In a game of problems, they learned to deal with it and solve it. Random is the LEAST of your worries if you have any higher ambitions in Starcraft 2.
edit: I answered your dumb question. They're a different race, and it's the quirk that makes them unique. The advantage they gain from this balances (not really) the fact that random is ridiculously difficult and unviable. You'd think a random would take a GSL title by now with how imbalanced their hidden race is.
|
On January 05 2013 00:27 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:08 kill619 wrote:On January 04 2013 02:28 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 22:39 Salient wrote:On January 03 2013 22:27 Silentness wrote:Playing random is fun. Watching someone rage and shed precious tears when I get zerg (and their protoss) is hilarious. They try to 4 gate me or immortal/sentry all in. Most of the time though the immortal/sentries get me Have fun while you still can. MsC Expand will be safe and economical vs all three races in HoTs. No more lucky free random wins. Random wins are free and lucky? There are probably tens of thousands of players (protoss) rated higher than you who have ascended beyond the asymptote which random ceases to exist almost entirely in the upper levels of ladder. They didn't get there by blaming all their problems on the game rather than themselves. On January 04 2013 00:22 kill619 wrote:On January 03 2013 19:07 rd wrote:On January 03 2013 17:16 GhostKorean wrote:On January 03 2013 14:46 NrG.ZaM wrote:On January 03 2013 13:23 GhostKorean wrote:
You can just roll an rng and pick your race and do everything you said Sounds good, random players already play 3 times as many matchups as we do, why not force them to do more bullshit like roll dice or tab out to choose a random number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the other players in any way, you know. Well I think it would benefit both players since the popular opinion seems to be to cheese randoms because they don't like playing vs random. Not only that but you get to play the matchups properly (ie A protoss will never FFE vs a random zerg). It's not a big deal, takes like 3 seconds and playing 3 times as many matchups is your choice and rolling for race doesn't change this in any way. I guess if you like having your random advantage you can play random but if you don't mind I don't see why you shouldn't do this. You don't have to be so hostile towards the idea You mean the popular opinion of the vocal minority who bitch about random? You ask why everyone is so hostile when you like everyone else impose an importance of a proper game on ladder, and always put the problem onto the random player/random function and not the complaining player himself. It's the presumptuous, holier than thou attitude that always implies random is at fault. I got a better idea: Instead of wasting energy complaining about random, why don't players do what hundreds of thousands before them have done and learn an extra build for random? Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled? Why are non-random players suppose to learn a safe against all and flexible opening while random players get to pick match-up specific builds? What makes Random players entitled to not having to play against people match up specific early-game's? Also, just because something has existed for 14 years doesn't make it great. What kind of question is that? If you want to beat random players with any remote consistency you will generally benefit from learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race. Why the fuck else would you learn such a build? Why should anyone learn to beat ANYTHING? It EXISTS and has to be DEALT with. It's the nature of the match-up. If you don't like it, that's fine; That's an opinion. But acknowledge the problem lies with you and not random. 1."learning a build/mindset that beats random as a race" Random isn't a race. Random doesn't have any units, any RvX builds, etc. Random is just the game picking a race for you and giving the random player the option to withhold the information of what race he's playing at the beginning of the game. There's no such thing as playing against "Random", it's just playing against T/P/Z with out the ability to know what race they are from the beginning of the game, eliminating the ability for the non-random player to choose match up specific openers. 2."It exist and has to be dealt with" Again, just because something exist doesn't mean that it should continue to do so or that people should just "deal with it". By your logic, why can't random players just deal with having their race relieved, or both players having their race's hidden instead of just one? You still didn't answer my question, why do random players deserve to avoid match up specific early game builds from their opponents while having that option available to them? 1. Now we know where your problem is: You don't understand that random is a race. Random poses a problem which requires you to approach it with a unique solution unlike the other three traditional races. You have two choices in this regard: Accept that random has to be treated like a separate race to be played against properly, or embrace incompetence wasting effort to argue some asinine ideological point that accomplishes nothing. No shit it doesn't have the qualities of a traditional race. It's still a race in the sense it's qualities warrant enough differences to require a completely different playstyle. 2. And heres the other problem: No one cares what you think. Just because in your opinion it shouldn't continue to exist, doesn't mean your argument is granted amnesty and random should be removed. It's futile even attempting to address this because it'd simply acknowledge the implicit correctitude in which you speak to; the presumptuous confusion that asserts your opinion as fact. I can't re-iterate enough the fact that tens of thousands of players have gotten over the asymptotic point which random ceases to even exist in ladder. In a game of problems, they learned to deal with it and solve it. Random is the LEAST of your worries if you have any higher ambitions in Starcraft 2.
1. Nope, the problem is that one player lacks information in the beginning of the game and the other player doesn't. One player has to do a sub-optimal build or attempt match up specific openings and gamble on his opponents race, and the other player doesn't have to do that. What I don't understand is why it's ok for only one player to get that information, instead of both or neither player having it.
2. Never said anything about wanting random being removed. Pretty sure I haven't given any suggestion on what I would change about random If I could. I simply asked why picking Random warrants the opponent, of course a non-random one, to not know his opponents race but to give that information to the random player.
And it's not a matter of my opinion over any one else's. If somethings broken and it can be fixed it shouldn't be kept for tradition's sake."Why does a 14 year old function that's synonymous to our starcraft culture have to be removed because a few players are entitled?" was your quote I was referring to originally because it implied that because random has existed it its current form for 14 years that it should continue to do so and I'm just telling you that that's not a valid reason if you truly believe that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
