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I go barracks-CC-CC (3rd CC in-base) into mass bio. I do it since I assume my mechanics will be better than theirs -- after all, they've got to mentally slot into the right hotkeys, the right mule-vs-chrono-vs-queen macro mechanic, other race-specific checklist items (this is mostly a thing when they go Z).
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On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game?
You've got to be fucking kidding.... You're only letting your own experience be ruined. I might as well whine that people who use infestors also ruin the game for me so they shouldn't use them. Talk about selfish, nonsensical thinking.
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On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals.
Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway.
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It's only a "problem" if you're Protoss and he rolls Zerg. With terran, for example, you will know his race by the time your gas should be an option (13 supply) if you scout after first depot. With Zerg, 14 pool is quite safe vs anything and doesn't put you behind, realistically speaking.
And for the Protoss players: if I, a random, know how to open Gate-first and still take the advantage of the given situation (you opt to play more aggressive, boo hoo..) they definitely should.
But I understand that bad examples are always the one that stay in your memory - as in SC, as in real life, sadly. Everything aside, it's just a game and it's just a one-match-in-a-dozen after all. You can't play all standard and expect other to do as well - there is a reason there are options in the game. Scout is the key, and having no fear.
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On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to.
What do you even want someone to tell you? Deal with it. It's not a random players problem that ladder isn't designed for your intentions -- that IS the central point. Your complaints revolve around the fact that you go on ladder with a purpose ladder wasn't made to provide exclusively. Quit it with the entitlement and stop analyzing a random player's motives; yours are no better in the purview of ladder.
On December 28 2012 16:35 BigBadBeaver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? For the record, Blizzard encourages random by having portraits... I'm sure many people would be satisfied rolling a dice on their desk otherwise. I think the best solution is a "reveal race" option and hopefully, it comes soon because it's extremely frustrating that one can't play random on the ladder without getting cursed at every other game.
The real solution is for people to get over themselves. Random players owe them nothing -- especially if that person is actually that much of a douche to bitch at him because you're the 2nd random player he's played in a month and you're not telling him your race. God forbid.
On December 29 2012 19:46 Rasper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals. Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway.
The fact you'd actually gamble a ladder game and get upset over it rather than deal with random as a race is pretty ironic. I hope more randoms fuck with people on ladder.
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woh, one year later and this debate is still going on.
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On December 30 2012 13:46 dAPhREAk wrote:
woh, one year later and this debate is still going on.
Whether it's infestors or vortex, stim or forcefield, or in this case of course, random, people will forever be searching for something to absolve themselves of responsibility when they lose on the ladder.
Just weird that its over something that can be solved with a 10 scout.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2012 13:06 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. What do you even want someone to tell you? Deal with it. It's not a random players problem that ladder isn't designed for your intentions -- that IS the central point. Your complaints revolve around the fact that you go on ladder with a purpose ladder wasn't made to provide exclusively. Quit it with the entitlement and stop analyzing a random player's motives; yours are no better in the purview of ladder. Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 16:35 BigBadBeaver wrote:On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? For the record, Blizzard encourages random by having portraits... I'm sure many people would be satisfied rolling a dice on their desk otherwise. I think the best solution is a "reveal race" option and hopefully, it comes soon because it's extremely frustrating that one can't play random on the ladder without getting cursed at every other game. The real solution is for people to get over themselves. Random players owe them nothing -- especially if that person is actually that much of a douche to bitch at him because you're the 2nd random player he's played in a month and you're not telling him your race. God forbid. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 19:46 Rasper wrote:On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals. Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway. The fact you'd actually gamble a ladder game and get upset over it rather than deal with random as a race is pretty ironic. I hope more randoms fuck with people on ladder.
Where did I say I get upset? Couldn't give a shit about 'gambling' a ladder game vs random, I play to improve not for ladder points. What's the point in learning to deal with random as a race (not that I see random as a race) long term? There is no irony in my post just honesty. You say you hope randoms fuck with people on ladder but I feel like I'm the one fucking with them as I never give them a proper game and win or lose I can't wait to get on with some real games. If race was revealed at the start then this would be a completely different story of course.
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On December 30 2012 20:46 Rasper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2012 13:06 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. What do you even want someone to tell you? Deal with it. It's not a random players problem that ladder isn't designed for your intentions -- that IS the central point. Your complaints revolve around the fact that you go on ladder with a purpose ladder wasn't made to provide exclusively. Quit it with the entitlement and stop analyzing a random player's motives; yours are no better in the purview of ladder. Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 16:35 BigBadBeaver wrote:On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? For the record, Blizzard encourages random by having portraits... I'm sure many people would be satisfied rolling a dice on their desk otherwise. I think the best solution is a "reveal race" option and hopefully, it comes soon because it's extremely frustrating that one can't play random on the ladder without getting cursed at every other game. The real solution is for people to get over themselves. Random players owe them nothing -- especially if that person is actually that much of a douche to bitch at him because you're the 2nd random player he's played in a month and you're not telling him your race. God forbid. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 19:46 Rasper wrote:On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals. Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway. The fact you'd actually gamble a ladder game and get upset over it rather than deal with random as a race is pretty ironic. I hope more randoms fuck with people on ladder. Where did I say I get upset? Couldn't give a shit about 'gambling' a ladder game vs random, I play to improve not for ladder points. What's the point in learning to deal with random as a race (not that I see random as a race) long term? There is no irony in my post just honesty. You say you hope randoms fuck with people on ladder but I feel like I'm the one fucking with them as I never give them a proper game and win or lose I can't wait to get on with some real games. If race was revealed at the start then this would be a completely different story of course.
Upset; casually calling random players who fuck with you idiots; same difference really. The irony (yet again) that you not only continue to galvanize this utopian-esque idea of a 'proper game,' but apparently you assume random players (and likely all players) value it as much as you do too. I highly suggest you re-evaluate the ladder's purpose and step down from your high horse.
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On December 30 2012 22:07 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 20:46 Rasper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2012 13:06 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. What do you even want someone to tell you? Deal with it. It's not a random players problem that ladder isn't designed for your intentions -- that IS the central point. Your complaints revolve around the fact that you go on ladder with a purpose ladder wasn't made to provide exclusively. Quit it with the entitlement and stop analyzing a random player's motives; yours are no better in the purview of ladder. Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 16:35 BigBadBeaver wrote:On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? For the record, Blizzard encourages random by having portraits... I'm sure many people would be satisfied rolling a dice on their desk otherwise. I think the best solution is a "reveal race" option and hopefully, it comes soon because it's extremely frustrating that one can't play random on the ladder without getting cursed at every other game. The real solution is for people to get over themselves. Random players owe them nothing -- especially if that person is actually that much of a douche to bitch at him because you're the 2nd random player he's played in a month and you're not telling him your race. God forbid. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 19:46 Rasper wrote:On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals. Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway. The fact you'd actually gamble a ladder game and get upset over it rather than deal with random as a race is pretty ironic. I hope more randoms fuck with people on ladder. Where did I say I get upset? Couldn't give a shit about 'gambling' a ladder game vs random, I play to improve not for ladder points. What's the point in learning to deal with random as a race (not that I see random as a race) long term? There is no irony in my post just honesty. You say you hope randoms fuck with people on ladder but I feel like I'm the one fucking with them as I never give them a proper game and win or lose I can't wait to get on with some real games. If race was revealed at the start then this would be a completely different story of course. Upset; casually calling random players who fuck with you idiots; same difference really. The irony (yet again) that you not only continue to galvanize this utopian-esque idea of a 'proper game,' but apparently you assume random players (and likely all players) value it as much as you do too. I highly suggest you re-evaluate the ladder's purpose and step down from your high horse.
Haha I said a few idiots ruin it for everyone which is true! Which means asking any random player their race is a waste of time. I'm not upset about it one bit that is just a word you have put into my mouth. Also you sure like this irony word :D By 'proper' game I mean one that will more closely resemble something that would happen in a tournament.
What is the ladders purpose? Is there only one purpose? No (idiot), its purpose is whatever you want it to be. For some it will be to gain ladder points anyway they can(even if it means they lie about their race), for others its to get some good practice against a variety of styles, for others its just to have fun/troll with silly builds etc etc
Also
"you assume random players (and likely all players) value it as much as you do too"
More words you put into my mouth :D (is this an american thing?) I couldn't give a flying fuck what the other player value, just like they probably couldn't give a fuck what I value.
I'm riding off on my high horse now, see you later!
User was temp banned for this post.
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I just tend to scout on 10 or 11 instead of 12 as terran. 'Course, my openings are kinda samey for all the races anyway. I can see how Zerg would have a rougher time, since you want a pool first against the potential of protoss cannoning your natural but also want to 15 hatch terrans to go into standard droning as hard as possible. 9 Drone scout, I suppose - someone already said it.
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On December 30 2012 20:46 Rasper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2012 13:06 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. What do you even want someone to tell you? Deal with it. It's not a random players problem that ladder isn't designed for your intentions -- that IS the central point. Your complaints revolve around the fact that you go on ladder with a purpose ladder wasn't made to provide exclusively. Quit it with the entitlement and stop analyzing a random player's motives; yours are no better in the purview of ladder. Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 16:35 BigBadBeaver wrote:On December 28 2012 15:28 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 28 2012 14:19 MateShade wrote:On December 28 2012 13:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On December 27 2012 12:08 rd wrote:On December 27 2012 04:15 Emzeeshady wrote:
I either just 6 pool or quit vs random.
The reason is that by playing random they are really screwing up that game. I want to play a game where I am able to practice and play standard and by playing random we are basically playing a pointless game where I would have to stay incredibly defensive and wait for their all in. If they really did want to play all three races they would just switch between the three instead of using the advantage they have to cheese. Go find some practice partners then. If you're looking to practice against a huge spectrum of strategies thrown randomly at you from widely varying levels of skill, then ladder is pretty great -- otherwise, it has no obligation to conform to anyone's practice requirements. Why do you even care what their intention on the ladder is? They're playing ladder to compete for whatever reason and you're trying to rationalize it and put it into a perspective which marginalizes the player and puts your holier than thou ladder practice upon its golden pedestal. This has nothing to do with my intentions. I have many practice partners but I want to be able to play vs a wide variety of strategies. The problem is if they are random I cannot play normal and therefore it does not help me do anything because I will not play that way in a normal match. If randoms ACTUALLY wanted to learn how to play all three races like they say they do (most of them in this thread are probably lying) then they would just pick a different race every game so that the match they play will actually play out noramlly. If they are just playing to have fun and try out some cheeses then sure play random but otherwise there is no reason to. I play randmo because its more fun not knowing which of the 9 matchups youre going to get. Its got nothing to do with trying out cheeses for most people pull stuff out of a hat? There are programs you can use to randomly select inputted options. Like seriously why would you spoil a game for another person to get a thrill over what race you pick in a video game? For the record, Blizzard encourages random by having portraits... I'm sure many people would be satisfied rolling a dice on their desk otherwise. I think the best solution is a "reveal race" option and hopefully, it comes soon because it's extremely frustrating that one can't play random on the ladder without getting cursed at every other game. The real solution is for people to get over themselves. Random players owe them nothing -- especially if that person is actually that much of a douche to bitch at him because you're the 2nd random player he's played in a month and you're not telling him your race. God forbid. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 19:46 Rasper wrote:On December 28 2012 19:37 _indigo_ wrote:
Just ask the random player what race he got and most will tell you. Then play normal from 10 seconds on. If you happen to FFE agains a liar, well, this is gonna happen mostly once in 200 games so you don't need to sweat about it.
Random players, including me, play because random because we like all the races and don't wanna either waste on any (and not experience it since we bought a full game) or get tired/bored of playing only one. It has NOTHING to do with having some sort of ridiculous advantage - at least past diamond it doesn't. So don't treat us like some kind of StarCraft criminals. Problem is a few idiots ruin it for everyone, I know most randoms are good guys but the 1 in 200 ratio is wrong, wrong enough in fact I don't bother asking because I wont believe the random player anyway. Also an early cheese seems strong because most randoms I encounter don't even bother scouting because they want to hide their race and, if they win I'd rather quickly move onto a proper game anyway. The fact you'd actually gamble a ladder game and get upset over it rather than deal with random as a race is pretty ironic. I hope more randoms fuck with people on ladder. Where did I say I get upset? Couldn't give a shit about 'gambling' a ladder game vs random, I play to improve not for ladder points. What's the point in learning to deal with random as a race (not that I see random as a race) long term? There is no irony in my post just honesty. You say you hope randoms fuck with people on ladder but I feel like I'm the one fucking with them as I never give them a proper game and win or lose I can't wait to get on with some real games. If race was revealed at the start then this would be a completely different story of course.
Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but what is the point of learning to play against any of the races long-term? As far as I see it, the only people to whom that actually matters are professional players. For the other 99.9% of us, random is as valid an option for our opponents as anything else.
This is why I quite like meeting random. I know I'm basically having fun/killing time by playing this game and its not as though anything rests on it, so I simply enjoy the variety.
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As a random player here is my take on this facing random player phenomenon.
To those of you claiming to play ladder for the sake of practice and not winning:
-Saying that facing a random player is a waste of time is just stupidity, if you are so worried about practicing something specific you should be playing versus a practice partner or against a computer.
-You can always practice weird builds, mechanics, etc.
-Since you dont care about ladder points, feel free to leave the game, as that will only cost you ladder points. (and also you may have made someone else happier by doing so)
-I would wager that randoms do more cheesy builds, but if you are practicing on ladder you should be aware that people do cheesy builds all the time, and ladder is a good place to practice against them cheeses.
Now there is obviously an advantage for the random player in that he knows your race and you dont know his, this only lasts for as long as either of you scouts. Consider however that the random player must know 9 matchups (10 if you count rvr) and you only need to know 3 (or 4 if you count the vs random). I would say that when you count both these factors you come out somewhat even.
Personally I play random because:
-I like to have some knowledge of all races.
-I like playing unorthodox shit, and random lets me get away easier with that. (I also like winning on the ladder).
Finally I like to say that I understand the agony of you protoss players that end up vs a random zerg (everyone else has viable "standard" builds), fear not and try and look up some gateway first opener instead, as those do exist.
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On January 19 2012 02:44 haffy wrote:
Protoss can make a gateway and pylon next to their main and wall off with cyber/gate if they see it's Zerg.
Right, and with a bit of "unluck", it'll be on a 4 player map like Entombed, scouted last. So when your probe arrives, you'll see he hatch-firsted, and you're stuck with your 1 gate expo. Any half decent Zerg has already won at this point. I absolutely hate playing a random that gets Zerg, cause it feels like no matter what I do, I'm already far behind at the start of the game.
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On January 02 2013 21:45 Nyast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:44 haffy wrote:
Protoss can make a gateway and pylon next to their main and wall off with cyber/gate if they see it's Zerg.
Right, and with a bit of "unluck", it'll be on a 4 player map like Entombed, scouted last. So when your probe arrives, you'll see he hatch-firsted, and you're stuck with your 1 gate expo. Any half decent Zerg has already won at this point. I absolutely hate playing a random that gets Zerg, cause it feels like no matter what I do, I'm already far behind at the start of the game.
You aren't fighting GSL level zergs are you? You're perfectly capable of winning PvZ's with a 1 gate fe on ladder. The odds are with you that the zerg's ZvP probably isn't up to par with your PvZ.
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You aren't fighting GSL level zergs are you? You're perfectly capable of winning PvZ's with a 1 gate fe on ladder. The odds are with you that the zerg's ZvP probably isn't up to par with your PvZ.
How does that make it fair? And to be more clear, when I say 'fair,' I am not insinuating that the match means everything to me, or that the random player owes us anything - but more that one person already feels that the match has been made somewhat meaningless because the openers were so favored towards their opponent.
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its fair because you can play random too--its not some "advantage" reserved for certain people.
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Other games that have random race display the randomly selected race. For example, Age of Mythology might display: Player 1 Random (Zeus) vs. Player 2 Random (Odin). I have no idea why random has a hidden race bonus in SC2.
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On January 03 2013 05:59 Ashent wrote:Show nested quote +You aren't fighting GSL level zergs are you? You're perfectly capable of winning PvZ's with a 1 gate fe on ladder. The odds are with you that the zerg's ZvP probably isn't up to par with your PvZ. How does that make it fair? And to be more clear, when I say 'fair,' I am not insinuating that the match means everything to me, or that the random player owes us anything - but more that one person already feels that the match has been made somewhat meaningless because the openers were so favored towards their opponent.
Wait a second? What do you mean by fair? Are you implying it isn't fair, that it FAVORS the random player? You can gate FE vZ and win all the way to top GM -- with remote consistency, even. Random exists on the ladder almost exclusively and there are balanced ways to defeat random in all relevant levels of ladder.
And that's not even accounting for the fact that a random player will generally be worse than you. Actually, why don't we account for it and actually ascertain the reality that random is monumentally more unviable than gate fe in PvZ?
On January 03 2013 06:18 Salient wrote:
Other games that have random race display the randomly selected race. For example, Age of Mythology might display: Player 1 Random (Zeus) vs. Player 2 Random (Odin). I have no idea why random has a hidden race bonus in SC2.
Cause it's based on starcraft which came years before age of mythology. Go play age of mythology if revealing random is so critical. Do you really think SC2's features should be based on a consensus of other popular RTS's, or are you simply cherry picking the ideas that conveniently suit your arguments? This could be strawmanned to oblivion.
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