EPT[D] Patch 1.4 and its implications - Page 5
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Hipsv
135 Posts
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Allscorpion
United Kingdom319 Posts
Implications and reasoning: Contaminate is so strong especially in ZvZ. I think this is completely justified. This is total bs, the reason why this one was changed is because the overseer has change from 50/100 to 50/50 meaning 2 times the amount of overseers you would get for the same amount of gas. This means there is going to be mass contaminate and this is a nerf to stop it, although I still believe it is going to be OP after someone finds out a way to exploit this because 2 overseers worth of gas is now 4 overseers worth of gas and its just not going to be good for the game. The overseer should just be completely removed from the game and replaced with something else. | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:31 Laids wrote: I don't understand the ramp change in combination with the overseer change. It may now be impossible to scout early game vs T as you can usually sneak a ling up, spot for example the block rax +2 factories. The ramp change is probably going to change the early game PvP 4 gate push or blink stalkers Now not only does it take more time to research blink, but it will be harder to poke at a ramp and blink on top of it because of the sight range. Also this changes the 4 gate because you'll need to go higher up the ramp to be able to warp-in units on the high ground with 1-2 proxy pylons on the low ground. as you said maybe lings proding at a base to get scouting will be less effective but besides that I don't see what other changes it brings, it still a nice change if it does affect the pushes metagame in PvP | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
yes BFH and unupgraded helions are basically equal in harassing NOT You don't seem to quite grasp what he's saying, currently 3 unupgraded hellions one-shot a worker line, post patch it takes 3 upgraded hellions to one-shot a worker line, so there is zero incentive to actually research the upgrade if your goal is to harrass (unless you're going full out mech). It will have little effect on the builds that only make hellions for early harrassing, instead of people dropping 4 BFH hellions you'll now drop 8 normal hellions into your base to maybe even greater effect. It only impacts mech builds that are already weak in every matchup but TvT. | ||
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J.E.G.
United States389 Posts
On August 25 2011 18:54 Thraundil wrote: Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. Implications and reasoning: I am not entirely sure why this change is being made. It will make it even harder to gain any scouting information in the early game by poking up the ramp with a cheap unit, and the early stages of the game are already by far the most fragile where scouting info is oh so important. In addition, agressive pushes up the ramp of a defender will be severly weakened by this, as e.g. a stalker will now be able to shoot a hydralisk standing on the low ground without the hydralisk being able to shoot back via a ramp spotter; only an air unit can provide the vision now. This is another pvp 4gate nerf, thank god. You can ff at bottom of ramp and not worry about them warping in over your FF to get vision of high ground, i think. | ||
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J.E.G.
United States389 Posts
Terran drop nerf? | ||
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:54 J.E.G. wrote: "Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location." From full patch notes. Terran drop nerf? was exactly is unloading units into a "dense area" do they mean like trying to drop marines on top of stacked siege tanks and don't forget the end of the sentence "if the original order was issued on a fog location", maybe you can still "drop in a dense area" when you have vision of it I didn't understand what this changes or mean at all.... | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
36 into 30 is a 16%~ loss in DPS 47 into 40 is a 14%~ loss in DPS 36 (+30% against armored) was changed into 30 (+33% against armored) | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Huntz
164 Posts
was exactly is unloading units into a "dense area" do they mean like trying to drop marines on top of stacked siege tanks and don't forget the end of the sentence "if the original order was issued on a fog location", maybe you can still "drop in a dense area" when you have vision of it I didn't understand what this changes or mean at all.... Yeah I'm not entirely sure what they mean by this. My best bet is that if you queue up a drop in the fog of war and when it gets there it turns out you're dropping on top of a building the medivac will just go there but not unload? I'm not sure. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
If I did the math right it's just a 6-7 damage reduction on FG, which means it still kills marines in 2 fungals. So I guess Im still happy. | ||
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
On August 25 2011 23:03 eYeball wrote: Except that you look at most of the balances as from a zerg perspective in all of the matchups I think it's kind of ok patch. i seriously, SERIOUSLY laughed reading this. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
I don't know how necessary it is for PvP but I hope the change doesn't make it to the real game. | ||
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Gamma4
Australia75 Posts
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likwidstylez
Canada14 Posts
-my 2 low-diamond cents- | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On August 25 2011 19:26 Scheme wrote: 3 BFH still one shot workers tho, so no difference in harassement! Oh so naive, it almost makes me happy. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On August 25 2011 19:46 AA.spoon wrote: blink change doesn't affect pvz at all. As an avid fan of blinkstalker play vs zerg, waiting 20sec more in pvz for blink is not going to affect me at all. The trouble is they nerfed blink stalker play in pvp BADLY. None will be opening blink anymore, as the timing will give your opponent one more immortal, or dts. Combined with the immortal buff, this is awful for pvp. It will be robo vs robo all the way, all the time. Actually, this opens the door to stargate openings. | ||
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Iroh
England48 Posts
On August 25 2011 19:36 rpgalon wrote: the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP, I don't see both going through the PTR. they should have buffed phoenix graviton beam instead of the immortal, making graviton beam 25 energy vs light units, it would make phoenix a great harras and counter to the 1-1-1, it would not make hydras useless since you need 1 phoenix for each hydra (energy is not a problem) while you need 1 phoenix for each 3-4 marines (energy IS a problem). But I have read in that recent interview that a harrass unit might be on the way for protoss in HotS. (This might be wrong, I'm just thinking ahead) So this kind of phoenix buff would make that addition pointless. | ||
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Thraundil
Denmark278 Posts
On August 25 2011 20:12 ledgerhs wrote: P likes to open early air against Z to secure third and to get map control. It's so beneficial to open air, as it forces Z to spend money on spores, evo, extra queens and so forth. It's almost impossible to have it not pay for itself now, unless: Now upon scouting the gas timings indicating a SG opener, Z might be able to commit into Spire and just go contest air with corruptors, as detection gets that much cheaper, any DT surprise wouldn't catch Z off guard, and and if it is DTs, one could just simply spend the gas on Mutas, as the Blink research time nerf for TC play widens the window of opportunity. If Z gets a timing window to work for this type of build, the metagame might change dramatically. It would become impossible to secure a third for P with air only, the colossus would be out of the picture for obvious reasons, and it would be easy to get a whole mapcontrol with speedlings on the ground. This has definately crossed my mind as a Zerg player. Currently, I often delay my lair because I know I need to spend money and drones on spore crawler defense more or less blindly (unless I am lucky enough to scout the stargate/DT with a sloverlord). But now, it will be viable to spend the money on more queens, and the drones will generate the income needed for a faster lair tech and a much faster ability to scout the entire protoss main. This will especially be SO important on the big maps (Tal'darim alter immidiately springs to mind, along with basically any map where close spawns makes for a hard third expansion). On August 25 2011 20:16 iCanada wrote: As a Zerg player, Immortals and Ravens suddenly scare the hell out of me. Immortal timing pushes were already something to be super scared of if you went roaches... Them being able to hide behind stalkers/zealots/ffs and decimate roaches is just lethal. As for the raven, I don't think this game would have Zerg/Toss players if you were to tell BW players that Terran got a reaver mixed with a defiler that could fly and detect cloaked units. I almost always (no scratch that. I always!) get ling speed, and an army where alot of money has been sunk into immortals and sentries, roach/ling will still be able to hold their ground in the early stages of the game. It might be abit harder, I cant say for sure (btw range 5 immortals vs range 4 roaches could still /lol them in forcefields, its just easier now). On August 25 2011 20:21 P00RKID wrote: Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125. This is not a nerf to the contaminate ability, at least not entirely. Where before you had to spend 50/100 for 1 Overseer with 75 energy contaminates, now you can spend 100/100 for 2 overseers with 125 energy contaminates each. That means that the spell is more gas efficient and less mineral efficient but with a longer initial downtime. Here is an example: If you had a build where you wanted 4 overseers to contaminate harass then that would have cost you 200/400 and you would get 8 casts per 150 energy. And now, if you spend the same gas, it is 400/400 but you get 8 overseers and therefore 8 casts per 125 energy. So you gain more casts per minute per gas. I don't know if this makes sense or is worth mentioning. Hopefully this helps somebody. Yes. I did wonder if I should mention it. At the very least, this change will ruin a fast lair into overseer into contaminate the infestation pit of the other zerg guy backed up with a big roach allin :p good of you to point out, though. On August 25 2011 20:32 Psychobabas wrote: I've been posting this on every thread about the patch!!!!! Blue flame hellions still 2 shot a zergling! Nothing has changed in the Hellion v Zergling!! Do the math! :D Have you done this calculation for armor upgraded zerglings? What about broodlings? Drones? Hydralisks? I cant see blizzard making a change that has no effect whatsoever if that is what you're implying And @ all the guys who says BFH drops will still clear a mineral line; this is true. But same can be said for a baneling drop. At least now, we get those extra few seconds of reaction time before the entire mineral line is gone. Before, 2 BFH shots killed a worker, now its 3. On August 25 2011 20:58 robbryjo wrote: There a a few changes which will change the game completely. 1. The reduced sight on a ramp. No blink over forcefields. 2. In ZvZ Zerglings will need 2 Fungals instead of one to be killed. So the Matchup will change a bit. 3. A proxy rax in ZvT will be less effective now. 4.in ZvP heavy roach play will get punished hard with immortals and their new range. 5. Ultraliks will be used more. 6.Hellions useless against armored units. 7.Contaminate even more senseless then it is. 8.In ZvT fungal against marine+medivac not so effective anymore cause marines have 55 hp with upgrade and 2 fungals do 60 dmg. Medivac will heal very fast. While I agree with most of this, I completely dont understand your points 6 and 7. Hellions where always useless against armored units? Mass contaminate can already be evil in ZvZ, and with this change if contaminate was not increased in cost it would be pretty much the standard to go for a large mass contaminate / ling / roach... I think your point #8 is exactly what blizzard was aiming for (well, amongst others). Infestors where simply FAR too good vs marines. They will still be good, but now not as good. In addition, zerglings regenerate whilst in a fungal. A fungaled pack of fresh lings will exit the fungal with 1 hp each. On August 25 2011 23:47 Iroh wrote: But I have read in that recent interview that a harrass unit might be on the way for protoss in HotS. (This might be wrong, I'm just thinking ahead) So this kind of phoenix buff would make that addition pointless. In addition, phoenix graviton beam being 25 energy would make them very cruel as mineral line wipers... I'll try and sort through all the comments and edit the important things I missed into the original post - just posting them here also incase someone doesnt re-read the OP | ||
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