EPTI'll take that trade for reducing overseers to 50/50. Although w/ increased contaminate energy they will be less useful in ZvZ.
[D] Patch 1.4 and its implications - Page 4
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
I'll take that trade for reducing overseers to 50/50. Although w/ increased contaminate energy they will be less useful in ZvZ. | ||
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BigHeadYoony
United States92 Posts
EDIT: I'm not saying these comments I wrote are the good ones that you should add to the OP. They are just my opinion The Helion nerf was to nerf the harass aspect of the Helion. Now workers take three shots to kill, instead of two. Zerglings still die in two shots so it can't be that bad. Terran, equipped with mules, already mine minerals faster than other races. It does not need the best harass unit in the game to "get back on economy" because it's already got a good one. Zerg needs a better mid-late game unit, but as of now the infestor is way too strong. I doubt this patch will fix much, but it's a good start. We don't want infestor to be useless. I personally feel that increasing the feedback range for High Templar could fix the problem. Ghost EMP has a 10 range with no delay and an area of effect. Fungal growth has a range of 9 and an area of effect. Feedback, has 9 range and has to pick each unit because it only affects one unit you use it on. How is a Protoss supposed to feedback every ghost and infestor when the Terran and Zerg can just run in while spamming the area of effect attacks? Many of the Protoss fixes, including immortal and ramp vision, will be beneficial for PvP. Often times, even in the pro games in GSL, blink stalkers beat a immortal stalker army, even though immortals should be the counter to stalkers. Master Protoss | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
I honestly think toss has more options and potential than any other race yet they still get buffed...? I realize that it changes PvP but it is going to make toss that much harder to play against in a non mirror match, did they really need it? The blue flame drop was a bit extreme in my opinion but I do think it needed to be decreased. I dont however like how it will now force a terran to go rax units w/ ghosts every single game against a toss now though. That was really the last viable tech option for dealing with zealots in TvP so now that muchup will be crap. They won't even need observers anymore(despite how unfair they are in the first place) to see what units we are making. The barracks build time increase was a bit silly too.... wtf? Fungal nerf was totally needed and I'm fine with the ultra time decrease. I think its a pretty even and deserved change as far as zerg goes. Overall, not that happy with the patch, I think they could have done better honestly. It seems hasty and not fully researched but I guess thats what the PTR is for. I'm hoping to see some tweaks before it hits the ladder | ||
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ETisME
12702 Posts
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
On August 25 2011 21:57 ETisME wrote: you are missing the amazing np change, retaining the upgrades that the unit has Yes this will make NP Colossus MUCH more intimidating. There's a reason Toss makes sure to upgrade weapons. | ||
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dangerjoe
Denmark1866 Posts
Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack. I believe this will make it a lot easier to hold the 1/1/1 but I may be wrong.. Maybe even make the collusus less dominating in PvPs? First time in a while I have been happy about playing P when I saw patch notes, lol. | ||
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Brainiak
Germany91 Posts
On August 25 2011 21:00 aaycumi wrote: I really like all the changes, they are still subject to changes, especially Ultralisk spawn times. That feels more experimental than the rest. Infestors remain the same problem, its not the damage though that is its own problem, should slow the trapped troops not freeze them, that's why its overpowered. I agree with that part, the ultralisk buff is a bit extreme. Now a maxed zerg with a lot of ressources in the bank will now become a lot harder to deal with. Regarding the the infestor part blizzard has the wrong approach, like you said, its the freeze that is causing the problem, i like your slowing idea, they should try that out. I would add a 2 sec delay for blink, so they can slow blink micro down but they need more fungals On a side note, I wonder why there were now emp nerfs, I think emp is even more dangerous than storm and it does not require a research | ||
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boredrex
United States137 Posts
an un-upgraded BF hellion right now does 24 damage. this still 2 shots un-upgraded workers. Now a un-upgraded BF hellion does 19 damage. this 3 shots all workers, BUT if the terran player can get an mech attack upgrade advantage over a protoss or zerg player, this become 20 damage, and this still 2 shots probes and drones, but NOT SCVs, since they have 45 hp. What I'd like to see is a damage adjustment that encourages the player using blue flame hellions to get a fast +1 mech upgrade against all races. the base damage has to be 19 with blue flame, to avoid two shotting workers. | ||
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Anachromy
United States194 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:06 boredrex wrote: Now a un-upgraded BF hellion does 19 damage. this 3 shots all workers, BUT if the terran player can get an mech attack upgrade advantage over a protoss or zerg player, this become 20 damage, and this still 2 shots probes and drones, but NOT SCVs, since they have 45 hp. What I'd like to see is a damage adjustment that encourages the player using blue flame hellions to get a fast +1 mech upgrade against all races. the base damage has to be 19 with blue flame, to avoid two shotting workers. a +1 Mech will add 2 Damage to a Hellion vs Light, (base and bonus both get a +1 on an upgrade, i.e. 21 dmg per attack.) basicially +1 mech weapons will allow T to still 2 shot P and T workers. but not SCV's. until armor is factored in. | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
On August 25 2011 20:13 choopakabra wrote: Fungal is still strong PvZ: Unchanged probes before 2 fungals now 2 fungals. zealot before 5 fungals now 5 fungals. stalker before 4 fungals now 4 fungals. sentry before 3 fungals now 3 fungals. DT before 4 fungals now 4 fungals. HT before 3 fungals now 3 fungals. Changed Void before 6 fungals now 7 fungals. Colossus before 6 fungals now 7 fungals. Phoenix before 4 fungals now 5 fungals. Carrier before 10 fungals now 12 fungals. Immortal before 7 fungals now 8 fungals. Archon before 10 fungals now 12 fungals. This is true but it is EXTREMELY important to note that stalker is 160 "hp", fungal does 40, that's 4 fungals, but your chaining must be PERFECT. You cannot overlap at all or you need five. Also the reduction in damage is important if its actually a battle, as your stalkers will have more health for a longer period of time, or if less than the lethal number of fungals is cast, you'll also have more health. Fungal is still strong no doubt, but its a significant nerf. I'm really surprised how much changed this PTR. Blink +30 seconds? That's a lot. BFH upgrade CUT IN HALF!? Are you kidding me blizzard? YES! Now they don't 2 shot workers without +1, what a sexy nerf ! Warp prism +60 shields? I can't see them being much better at shuttling HT as EMP + focus = dead just as fast, but definitely helpful if you fly behind your army, worrying about vikings, and def helpful for dropping. And the overseer cost change is pretty major as well. Adding +5 seconds to the barracks is a huge change just because you get extra scout time, and EVERYTHING terran does is delayed. | ||
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BigHeadYoony
United States92 Posts
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:08 Anachromy wrote: a +1 Mech will add 2 Damage to a Hellion vs Light, (base and bonus both get a +1 on an upgrade, i.e. 21 dmg per attack.) basicially +1 mech weapons will allow T to still 2 shot P and T workers. but not SCV's. until armor is factored in. T workers are SCV, I believe you mean Z workers | ||
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BigHeadYoony
United States92 Posts
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 25 2011 21:55 CaptainCrush wrote: Nothing new here.... terrans get nerfed while toss gets buffed and zerg gets minimal changes.... Once terran representation drops below 50-60% in GSL, we can talk about that. Even disregarding that the facts are different and you are wrong - toss got two upgrades totally removed (flux vanes and amulet) and is overall the most nerfed race since release. zealot-buildtime: increased warpgate-research: increased flux vanes: removed amulet: removed blink-research: increased Overall, I guess the immortal-range-upgrade is supposed to finally make the immortal vs roach battle immortal-favoured again - as it should be. We started out with roach-range 3 vs immortal-range 5....and it turned out that roaches would be too weak vs standard gateway timing pushs. Nevertheless the roach-range 4 vs immortal-range 5 made roaches more viable vs immortals than they should be. Therefore in PvZ this is pretty much a "back to square one" buff. I'm sure Blizz had thought about the 2 range difference before release, they always stated that they'd like to see the immortal as some kind of a "hard-to-kill backbone" in the toss army. Now they bring the original 2-range-difference back. From an overall design-point-of-view this makes quite much sense. | ||
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Anachromy
United States194 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:11 Roblin wrote: T workers are SCV, I believe you mean Z workers Whoops.... :/ haha. we all make mistakes sometimes. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 25 2011 21:55 CaptainCrush wrote: Nothing new here.... terrans get nerfed while toss gets buffed and zerg gets minimal changes.... I honestly think toss has more options and potential than any other race yet they still get buffed...? I realize that it changes PvP but it is going to make toss that much harder to play against in a non mirror match, did they really need it? Gold Brotoss having some thoughts on changes Toss has more options and potential than any other race ?? Any war prism(The infamous Paper ship) drop (and warp-in) could be easily deflected by 2 Spores/turrets/canons in a mineral Line and since you can only fit 4 zealots in it, it wasn't very effective. You do little damage and pull your units out, or take the risk of losing 200 mins for the prism and 400 for the zealots, and you still haven't warped additionnal units. The higher shield will now make it much more efficient and make the speed pay for itself a lot more (And also actually protecting the high templars, not just try to not get them emp or fungaled) I think that the immortal buff will let protoss be more aggressive in the early/mid game because you will be able to get more immortals firing at the same time and not force the protoss to get Colossi and range or high templar with storm, and that is what forces Protoss to be such a defensive race, they don't have mid-game efficient units except rushing for the higher tiers (colossi, HT, Archons whatever suits your style) As a P I'm looking forward to more macro based play in PvP both because of the immortal changes and the war prism will make the robo Much more valuable. And it maybe will be the opportunity to mass immortals a lot more wich in my opinion would make awesome battles^_^ As for the BFH, I think you can still achieve that 1 worker kill in two shots with the +1 vehicule weapons, so terran could possibly still harrass but they have to commit more time and money to do it as efficiently. Mothership is a little less vulnerable since it can finally dodge attacks to some extent, this change can also make Mass recall really awesome 1. Recall army into expansion 2.Move mothership to other expansion, kill the first with your army 3.recall in another expansion, Kill it 4.Retreat/fight 5.Rebuild and Kill ^^ I don't see the ultralisk build time having that much of an impact but the hunter seeker missile for the raven might change things a bit and make terrans finally use unit and upgrade possible in their arsenal In short, I'm looking forward to it, is it just been anounced or will it be live soon ? | ||
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JesMaz
United States16 Posts
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Laids
United Kingdom596 Posts
I think the Immortal change is fine the way the game works currently, but I sincerely hope Blizzard fixes Protoss to be less derp when LotV comes out. Repositioning should be more important for Protoss and the Immortal change goes against that. | ||
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