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[D] Patch 1.4 and its implications - Page 42

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 21 2011 13:00 GMT
#821
On September 21 2011 21:56 NoDDiE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 21:12 acrimoneyius wrote:
On September 21 2011 20:53 NoDDiE wrote:
what you guys think about tvt, any diffrences ?
i played 2 tvt today (master lvl) and i noticed that blue flame is kinda useless now. in early game no diffrence vs workers//marines. only vs hellions. in late game it also isnt needed that much (i couldnt find 150//150 to get it) i played 2x vs fast blue flame openings and i was able to defend easily with regular hellion + faster tank (due to 150//150 save) also defending vs (blue flame??) hellion drops was much more easier.
so maybe we gonna see more bio play now. (however vs bio blue flame didnt change at all - still 3 shot vs shielded marine)


It takes 3 shots to kill uncombat-shielded marines now instead of 2 from before, which will significantly affect a lot of TvT openers where most of the volatility in one base vs one base is occuring.


i wrote that in part "and i noticed that blue flame is kinda useless now. in early game no diffrence vs workers//marines" :D



that's what the patch is about... It should make runnbys less game ending and should make bio more viable in TvT again...
Squigly
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom629 Posts
September 21 2011 13:06 GMT
#822
On September 21 2011 21:28 SilverforceX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 20:47 Squigly wrote:
On September 21 2011 20:44 SilverforceX wrote:
Marines > gateway units and immortals.

+1 range is going to make SOO much difference.. not.


trolol? Marines vs chargelots and blink stalkers with GS im pretty sure get ass raped.

EDIT: and I assume you dont count HT as gateway? Even though.....


Stim, micro. Rape zealots and especially stalkers.





Yup your right. Definitely. Tbh im not sure why anyone actually makes anything but marines until like the 12 min mark.

FF GS and charge definitly dont do well against pure marines. Storms doesnt do much either. I think marines might also hard counter collossi.

Did your OP actually have a point or were you just whining for the sake of whining. The point is immortals can now shoot from behind stalkers without the AI being stupid.
SilverforceX
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia267 Posts
September 21 2011 13:26 GMT
#823
Immo still cannot shoot from behind stalkers. They both will have 6 range. A stalker is a big unit. They are slow so they will be behind your army and can't shoot over stalkers. The same problem of dancing immortal will still exist.

They need 7 range to shoot beyond stalkers.

Btw, siege tanks have 7 range in normal mode. Marauders have 6, marines have 5. Aww.. it all works out for terran, again.

Banshee and vikings retain their range advantage, but VR had to be nerfed.. why?

Another patch, no nerf to ghost, emp, reactor upgrade.. yet Templars had amulet removed. Seriously, this patch won't change the terran dominance. We shall see in GSL october.
Squigly
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom629 Posts
September 21 2011 13:35 GMT
#824
On September 21 2011 22:26 SilverforceX wrote:
Immo still cannot shoot from behind stalkers. They both will have 6 range. A stalker is a big unit. They are slow so they will be behind your army and can't shoot over stalkers. The same problem of dancing immortal will still exist.

They need 7 range to shoot beyond stalkers.

Btw, siege tanks have 7 range in normal mode. Marauders have 6, marines have 5. Aww.. it all works out for terran, again.

Banshee and vikings retain their range advantage, but VR had to be nerfed.. why?

Another patch, no nerf to ghost, emp, reactor upgrade.. yet Templars had amulet removed. Seriously, this patch won't change the terran dominance. We shall see in GSL october.


Siege tanks unsieged are the fucking awful.

If only stalkers could move really quickly from one location to another. And zealots could run really fast and have an ai which auto surrounds. Or there was a spell which could cut a bio ball in half. Well since there isnt, looks like P kinda sucks. Oh wait....

Look, if you are just going to whine and dont have any actual input. Why post?

I could sit here and tell you why 3 gate proxy SG is imba. But i wont. Even though its win rate is as good as 1-1-1. Among other things. This isnt the thread for it.
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 13:42:28
September 21 2011 13:41 GMT
#825
On September 21 2011 22:06 Squigly wrote:
FF GS and charge definitly dont do well against pure marines.


they don't, if marines have stim and upgrades are equal

Siege tanks unsieged are the fucking awful.


you are wrong; their DPS is good, the smaller range of unsieged tanks is the reason why siegemode is awsome (+ splash)

I could sit here and tell you why 3 gate proxy SG is imba. But i wont. Even though its win rate is as good as 1-1-1.


you are wrong

The point is immortals can now shoot from behind stalkers without the AI being stupid.


you are wrong; immortals have the same range now; they have to get in line with stalkers and can't shoot behind stalkers
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Twiggs
Profile Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
September 21 2011 13:47 GMT
#826
On September 21 2011 22:41 sleepingdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 22:06 Squigly wrote:
FF GS and charge definitly dont do well against pure marines.


they don't, if marines have stim and upgrades are equal

Show nested quote +
Siege tanks unsieged are the fucking awful.


you are wrong; their DPS is good, the smaller range of unsieged tanks is the reason why siegemode is awsome (+ splash)

Show nested quote +
I could sit here and tell you why 3 gate proxy SG is imba. But i wont. Even though its win rate is as good as 1-1-1.


you are wrong

Show nested quote +
The point is immortals can now shoot from behind stalkers without the AI being stupid.


you are wrong; immortals have the same range now; they have to get in line with stalkers and can't shoot behind stalkers

This is what I call a hard counter

To the OP: I really hope Immos can hold that niche of our defensive unit against terrans. The one unit we can build and hold all that dumb ass bio stim timings/1-1-1s without having to rush to collosi. But Theoretically speaking it shouldn't do this. The range is nice but its still slow, doesn't do great against marines and does no splash aoe damage.
My life for Auir | FLASH . JD . BISU . HERO . Nony . Incontrol . FIGHTING
Penatronic
Profile Joined October 2010
150 Posts
September 21 2011 13:49 GMT
#827
On September 13 2011 23:38 Penatronic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 23:27 Squigly wrote:
On September 13 2011 22:41 Penatronic wrote:
On September 13 2011 10:49 mage36 wrote:
why were people complaining about ravens? All i saw was a HSM buff. You are given what you are given per race. If you don't like it, you can just play some old school RTS game when everything was practically the mirror the the other. Every race has strengths and weaknesses, so you have to play to your strengths and cover your weaknesses.


Can we make babies?

Too many people who have only played one race giving absurdly biased opinions.


There was a huge mothership buff too. a HUUGE one. However people will complain as they still kinda suck.

If you buff something from unusable to really bad, its still not good. HSM sucks. It kinda always will without a huge overhaul. You will only really see it in 15 hour TvT games ala boxer.

Thanks for the insightful input. It was more from a fortune cookie then starcraft related though

Do you know my lucky numbers? XD

EDIT: AAAhhh i quoted the wrong guy. I cba to change it but im sure people know who i meant to quote


I don't entirely get the whole NP issue to begin with. There are hardly any good targets that aren't massive and the infestor is so vulnerable while casting it Ive never had a real problem sniping them when they try something cute. I mean tanks and colossi just stomp on them. Plus you've got blink and HT/Ghost abilities that can hose infestors, too. I've been like, perfectly cliff ambushed by NP onto thors and tanks and still got vision and killed them with my bio before i was totally wiped, then went on to beat them up.

If NP really needed a nerf I'd rather see it's range reduced or something along those lines.


Blizzard reads TL
tUUTZ
Profile Joined July 2011
Finland122 Posts
September 21 2011 13:52 GMT
#828
The new sounds are completely awful, I want the old normal sounds back.
Ada
Profile Joined October 2004
Germany150 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 14:07:58
September 21 2011 14:02 GMT
#829
On September 21 2011 22:06 Squigly wrote:

Yup your right. Definitely. Tbh im not sure why anyone actually makes anything but marines until like the 12 min mark.


Because they add some marauders and medivacs to supplement the insane dps/mineral and dps/supply numbers of the stimmed marine and kite you to death.
There is a reason protoss needs AoE in the midgame.

Marines are not better than gateway units per se, but to bring in T2 or even T3 tech was not the point he was talking about.


About immortals, you still can't a-move a ball of stalkers+immortals, because immortals are slower and will likely still get stuck behind the stalkers. But now you can control the ball itself as if it were only stalkers.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 14:15:45
September 21 2011 14:12 GMT
#830
Didn't play in the PTR, so this has been my first time playing with the new warp prisms and OH MY GOD THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER. You can immortal drop in PvP, pick off a stalker and get out before losing health on your prism. You can actually pick up dropped units from near a queen now, get away, recharge your shields, and go again. As far as harassing goes without taking hull damage, their twice as good.
MeLlamoSatan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States136 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 14:38:10
September 21 2011 14:37 GMT
#831
For the people who complain about the 6 immo range and 6 stalker range:

Do you guys just a-click? How about we scoot and shoot a little as we move in? You know, that is way more effective...
Joker rhymes like the is you just happy to see me trick Classical slapstick rappers need chapstick A lot of them sound like they in a talent show So I give them something to remember like the Alamo
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
September 21 2011 14:57 GMT
#832
I can't believe the ignorance of people who think immortal range won't matter because they're now in line with stalkers. How about not a-moving everything and scooting a bit instead ._.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Asheshino
Profile Joined July 2011
Colombia37 Posts
September 21 2011 15:25 GMT
#833
On September 21 2011 23:37 MeLlamoSatan wrote:
For the people who complain about the 6 immo range and 6 stalker range:

Do you guys just a-click? How about we scoot and shoot a little as we move in? You know, that is way more effective...


That is exactly what we needed to do before and we need to do the same after the patch. That's why a lot of people is saying that the buff will change nothing.

But the only thing you hear from no-protoss is "OMG PROTOSS GOT BUFF IMBA IMMORTALS".
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
September 21 2011 15:29 GMT
#834
On September 21 2011 23:57 EmilA wrote:
I can't believe the ignorance of people who think immortal range won't matter because they're now in line with stalkers. How about not a-moving everything and scooting a bit instead ._.


Tell me about it. Immortals never have been an "a-move" type of unit. You always want to focus fire armored unit with your Immortals, and the range buff will have a significant effect on its ability to do so. Look at the Roach range buff and its effect on Roach usability. Now I realize that's not the best comparison due to Roach being more of a core unit and the Immortal more of a support unit, but it's a pretty big buff.

I think the range buff is also going to make people give another hard look at a heavier Immortal-based midgame to secure an earlier 3rd. Contrary to popular opinion a Chargelot/Immortal composition is quite beefy vs both Roach and MMM compositions in the midgame before armies get too large in the lategame.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 21 2011 15:38 GMT
#835
On September 22 2011 00:29 Skyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 23:57 EmilA wrote:
I can't believe the ignorance of people who think immortal range won't matter because they're now in line with stalkers. How about not a-moving everything and scooting a bit instead ._.


Tell me about it. Immortals never have been an "a-move" type of unit. You always want to focus fire armored unit with your Immortals, and the range buff will have a significant effect on its ability to do so. Look at the Roach range buff and its effect on Roach usability. Now I realize that's not the best comparison due to Roach being more of a core unit and the Immortal more of a support unit, but it's a pretty big buff.



well, blizzard always wanted the immortal to be this kind of core unit and there is a comment from them, where they said that they don't like how immortals didn't overtake the Dragoons role and are rather only built due to their AntiArmorRole instead of their beefiness in the frontline.
And to be honest, I think Protoss still haven't experimented enough with Immortalstyles due to Colossi being SO popular and easy to play/time.
ZorBa.G
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia279 Posts
September 21 2011 15:45 GMT
#836
I am amazed at how much Protoss is still complaining.... it's a joke really. Blizzard, just leave the game as it is now and let the metagame develop. There will always be whingers and sooks.

Remember HotS is still yet to be released, wait tilll all the rage imba threads then......
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
September 21 2011 15:50 GMT
#837
On September 22 2011 00:38 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2011 00:29 Skyro wrote:
On September 21 2011 23:57 EmilA wrote:
I can't believe the ignorance of people who think immortal range won't matter because they're now in line with stalkers. How about not a-moving everything and scooting a bit instead ._.


Tell me about it. Immortals never have been an "a-move" type of unit. You always want to focus fire armored unit with your Immortals, and the range buff will have a significant effect on its ability to do so. Look at the Roach range buff and its effect on Roach usability. Now I realize that's not the best comparison due to Roach being more of a core unit and the Immortal more of a support unit, but it's a pretty big buff.



well, blizzard always wanted the immortal to be this kind of core unit and there is a comment from them, where they said that they don't like how immortals didn't overtake the Dragoons role and are rather only built due to their AntiArmorRole instead of their beefiness in the frontline.
And to be honest, I think Protoss still haven't experimented enough with Immortalstyles due to Colossi being SO popular and easy to play/time.


You know I've heard people refer to some quote from Blizzard about Immortals a few times but I've never seen it. Can you link it? I don't really see how you can make the Immortal a core unit when it comes from a tech structure and has a fairly significant training time. Protoss seems very clearly defined in that gateway units = core and tech structure units = support.
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
September 21 2011 15:58 GMT
#838
On September 22 2011 00:50 Skyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2011 00:38 Big J wrote:
On September 22 2011 00:29 Skyro wrote:
On September 21 2011 23:57 EmilA wrote:
I can't believe the ignorance of people who think immortal range won't matter because they're now in line with stalkers. How about not a-moving everything and scooting a bit instead ._.


Tell me about it. Immortals never have been an "a-move" type of unit. You always want to focus fire armored unit with your Immortals, and the range buff will have a significant effect on its ability to do so. Look at the Roach range buff and its effect on Roach usability. Now I realize that's not the best comparison due to Roach being more of a core unit and the Immortal more of a support unit, but it's a pretty big buff.



well, blizzard always wanted the immortal to be this kind of core unit and there is a comment from them, where they said that they don't like how immortals didn't overtake the Dragoons role and are rather only built due to their AntiArmorRole instead of their beefiness in the frontline.
And to be honest, I think Protoss still haven't experimented enough with Immortalstyles due to Colossi being SO popular and easy to play/time.


You know I've heard people refer to some quote from Blizzard about Immortals a few times but I've never seen it. Can you link it? I don't really see how you can make the Immortal a core unit when it comes from a tech structure and has a fairly significant training time. Protoss seems very clearly defined in that gateway units = core and tech structure units = support.


well, Immortals used to be spawned from the Gateway which made more sense to me. But, then again to have Colossus as the only attacking unit you could build from a Robo seems a bit silly.
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
September 21 2011 16:07 GMT
#839
Wow i cant understand how can protoss players still complain about changes in the patch not being enough. Infestor nerf + immortal range buff totally shuts down infestor+roach play (which was a very powerful combo) and forces zerg to make corruptors again vs collosi. And yes immortal range is a significant buff if you dont just A move your army.
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
September 21 2011 16:47 GMT
#840
On September 22 2011 01:07 syriuszonito wrote:
Infestor nerf + immortal range buff totally shuts down infestor+roach play (which was a very powerful combo) and forces zerg to make corruptors again vs collosi.


yeah, totally; I guess we will never see infestors ever again

sigh
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
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