EPTinfestor is a buff, nice changes - Page 14
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SurroundSound
106 Posts
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
On February 28 2011 03:23 SurroundSound wrote: Not sure if serious.sc2 players are the biggest whiners. This is a buff. The missile is better gameplay. Try picking up some gosu skills and timing the shot. This change will seperate the good zergies from the bad zergies. You must not play zerg. | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:03 xSuperflyTnT wrote: Regardless I hope to see more interesting forms of play and harrassment come from this, and honestly.. I dont believe the infestor should have been as useful as it was. it served SO MANY roles it was ridiculous whereas the templar was anti caster/ dps , the ghost is well... Anti caster / snipe bio unit and has a potential for movement control with properly placed nukes in battle. Infestor.... harrassment control, coutners mass small units, counters mass air, completley counters mid sized metal pushes with a thor base. Speaking of a unit with so many purposes, let's talk about the marine... haha. I mean, it's inevitable that some units will serve many roles in an army while their "equivalents" in the other races will not. | ||
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mousepad
United States136 Posts
I'll say one thing, I'm going to miss the FG->Infested Terran tactic. It wasn't necessarily the best, but it was a fun way to torment terran drops. From typing this I realized something, doesn't this change screw with the effectiveness of Infested Terrans? I mean IT's only deal 8 DPS to single targets and fungal does a 9 dps (+10 to armor) splash. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
People already dodge storms like they're going out of style and those are instant cast. The missile animation is slow. The second video in this thread shows marines just walking away from a fungal shot at max range (which is generally where you want your Infestors - instead of tanking on the front line). At high levels of play missed FGs will mean you lose a battle because you dumped 150 gas into a 1-shot unit (generally speaking - they're rarely at max mana). So many people are talking about mass FGs on bio-balls and Protoss armies. Where are you getting the gas for an army plus all these infestors to cast heaps of FG on armies that will - and make no mistake about it - be going out of their way to make you miss? Good players will have highlight reels of FG dodging, and there will be examples of "brilliantly timed" FGs as well. The only problem is the latter will be based more on luck and an educated guess of where the enemy might be moving than skill. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Before the change: Your opponent makes a mistake, moves his units out of position, you fungal, punish him for it. After the change: Your opponent makes a mistake, moves his units out of position, with great infestor control, and more mismicro from your opponent, you can maybe catch some of his units, and now have half the time to punish him for it. Its definitely going to make it way harder for zergs after the patch, its a nerf that will have to be compensated by more skill. So yeah, zergs now need more skill to punish a mistake by the opponent, and the opponent who moves out of position now can use skillfull micro to avoid getting punished for it.l More potentials for displays of skill overall, less potential for zergs to win overall. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
On February 28 2011 06:28 Mjolnir wrote: It's a nerf. People already dodge storms like they're going out of style and those are instant cast. The missile animation is slow. The second video in this thread shows marines just walking away from a fungal shot at max range (which is generally where you want your Infestors - instead of tanking on the front line). At high levels of play missed FGs will mean you lose a battle because you dumped 150 gas into a 1-shot unit (generally speaking - they're rarely at max mana). So many people are talking about mass FGs on bio-balls and Protoss armies. Where are you getting the gas for an army plus all these infestors to cast heaps of FG on armies that will - and make no mistake about it - be going out of their way to make you miss? Good players will have highlight reels of FG dodging, and there will be examples of "brilliantly timed" FGs as well. The only problem is the latter will be based more on luck and an educated guess of where the enemy might be moving than skill. People don't really dodge storm perfectly. There is always some damage done. The units move out of the way AFTER they've gotten hit, which doesn't apply to FG. And have you ever tried moving back an army of say 30 rines all at once? All you have to do with the infestors is target ANY of the rines that aren't on the immediate front line (which are easily still out of rine/stalker range) and you will still get a good chunk of units hit as they try to dodge. Regardless of which way they dodge, they are either going to get hit by FG or move closer to your army or slow down their retreating. I will bet you pros will barely have the apm/skill to dodge FGs in big battles. You will (should) never have your infestors just chasing units and trying to cast FG alone without an army to clean it up or deal damage. Just try it out. I dare you. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
I'd gladly trade this "buff" for even a slight increase to Brood Lord's movement speed. That's the kind of buff Zerg actually needs if we want to see a Zerg ever win a GSL. But, no Blizzard patches Battlecruiser speed instead. Which is good for TvP, I guess. But are they not seeing how much Zerg is struggling right now? Do they not see how impossible it can be to break through late-game turtles of either race, especially Protoss? Slight changes to a Tier 2.5 unit aren't enough. The problem with Zerg is the late-game Tier 3 units they have will never do much of anything against a decent opponent, because they're slow (Brood Lords) and clumsy (Ultras) so that any bit of micro can make them worthless and completely inefficient. Sorry, Zerg, QQ, but one of these days, Blizzard is going to have to actually address the problem. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
People don't really dodge storm perfectly. There is always some damage done. Thats because storm is instant The units move out of the way AFTER they've gotten hit, which doesn't apply to FG. Indeed, that doesnt apply. With fungal no longer being instant, the units get the opportunity to move as soon as they see the missile, instead of after the cast lands. ![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/i/marinetank.jpg/) A pretty standard look: Tanks sieged up at the back, stimmed marines darting forward, ready to retreat at the first sign of danger. You will not hit them with a fungal. They will also not move closer to your army, and they will also not "be slowed down in their retreating", whatever you mean by that. They will stim, run away to the safety of the tanks, and then come back forward once the fungal has been wasted. I will bet you pros will barely have the apm/skill to dodge FGs in big battles. ? Thats not even an argument. Yes, if its possible to dodge it, good players will dodge it, good players will stim and run, good players will split their marines. | ||
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pronoob
3 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:44 morimacil wrote: Indeed, that doesnt apply. With fungal no longer being instant, the units get the opportunity to move as soon as they see the missile, instead of after the cast lands. A pretty standard look: Tanks sieged up at the back, stimmed marines darting forward, ready to retreat at the first sign of danger. You will not hit them with a fungal. They will also not move closer to your army, and they will also not "be slowed down in their retreating", whatever you mean by that. They will stim, run away to the safety of the tanks, and then come back forward once the fungal has been wasted. Yeah I agree with this. The biggest issue I've had though is with HELLIONS. hellions are SUCH A BITCH to fungal now... OH MY GOD (especially when mixed with maraduers that will always be spread out and end up stimming and killing the infestor). Unlike many of you I've been using infestor builds for a long time, and while I can say the 30% damage and half duration is overall a bit of a buff, the projectile thing certainly does NOT help in 90% of situations. Fungal used to be (or is still) one of the main counters to hellions, but with 1.3 they seem to want to make fungal terrible for that, and better vs marauders (although marauders can still move damn fast while stimmed), which seems a bit strange and/or reckless. On February 28 2011 08:44 morimacil wrote: Thats not even an argument. Yes, if its possible to dodge it, good players will dodge it, good players will stim and run, good players will split their marines. Aside from hellions (and maybe SMALL numbers of stimmed units), the biggest issue isn't the player's skill, but the game latency which is terribly high compared to starcraft 1. This does make it much harder for a player to dodge even if they are competent to dodge (this is quite the issue in SOTIS I find). | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
As if we didnt need a buff lately ^^ | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
I had a theory last night about the plans of blizzard: 1. Release the game with every spell in "easy mode" 2. Let players learn the uses of the spells so they get used to using them 3. 6 Month later make all spells harder to use when everyone learned what the spells can be used for 4. ??? 5. More exiting micro battles, since more spells will be used (and possibly evaded) It sounds valid, though, well... it would mean that Blizzard planned ahead. | ||
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Hetz
196 Posts
NERF: for all zergs below diamond (thats 89.5% of zerg players, check: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/all/1/all) this projectile based FG will just be another 1-mistake-and-you-lose feature added. This group of zerg players has enough trouble with the race as it is. The current race distribution being 35% (master league excluded)Terran, 35% Protoss and only 20% Zerg will get even more skewed if Blizzard implements these FG changes. BUFF: for the master zergs that have perfect micro and can afford a mistake since they do almost every other thing right. To summarize: the already HUGE gap between zerg master league and the rest will only get bigger with the new FG changes. We really want a 40% Terran/Toss and 10% Zerg race distribution? This will eventually works its way up to master league. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
NERF: for all zergs below diamond (thats 89.5% of zerg players, check: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/all/1/all) this projectile based FG will just be another 1-mistake-and-you-lose feature added. This group of zerg players has enough trouble with the race as it is. The current race distribution being 35% (master league excluded)Terran, 35% Protoss and only 20% Zerg will get even more skewed if Blizzard implements these FG changes. BUFF: for the master zergs that have perfect micro and can afford a mistake since they do almost every other thing right. I disagree. At lower levels, the opponents wont be able to micro out of the fungals, and missing one or 2 of them wont be a big deal anyway, so the missile isnt going to be much of an issue, and the higher damage makes it better. At higher levels, the opponents will micro and dodge, thus making it much worse than it currently is. And the higher your level, and more importantly, the level of your opponent, the less mistakes you can afford. If you invest 550/700 (pit + glands + 3 infestors), and all you do with that investment is make marines stim 3 times, your opponent will punish you for it really hard. At a pro level, thats most likely going to cost the game. | ||
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Bellygareth
France512 Posts
1st : Slow missile : it means that it will be dodgeable and it will be bad against fast units. I used infestors mainly against fast units, marines, flying units, helions... Against those I lose efficiency 2nd : Damage per energy doesn't change for most units. It improves against armored units but it's still laughably low compared to said unit life. 3rd: Snare time per energy is nerfed way too much. I'll have to use twice the amount of infestors to snare the same amount of time. And that's if I don't have my fungal dodged. In short, don't fix what wasn't broken, don't change the fungal growth, it's not the issue with infestors. Change Neural Parasite which is a broken spell. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:38 Leporello wrote: Actually, zerg already won the GSL. Actually twice. Actually at a time where zerg was widely considered UP.Zerg is ******. I don't understand what Blizzard is looking at. Our late game is so completely dominated. I'd gladly trade this "buff" for even a slight increase to Brood Lord's movement speed. That's the kind of buff Zerg actually needs if we want to see a Zerg ever win a GSL. On February 28 2011 08:38 Leporello wrote: Less QQ, more improve?Sorry, Zerg, QQ, but one of these days, Blizzard is going to have to actually address the problem. Zerg is deadly in hands of a gosu. On February 28 2011 19:22 Bellygareth wrote: While this is true, it is not the whole story. You can cast an FG and then when the opponent moves his army to avoid the missile, already have casted another FG so that one them hits some units. With the good DPS, FG is quite nice. You should be able to get rid of lings and banelings quite fast, also marines should be softened up for the banelings. I would also like to watch what the pros are doing with this spell.The more I think about it the more I think it's a nerf. 1st : Slow missile : it means that it will be dodgeable and it will be bad against fast units. | ||
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