EPTInfestors dont come out early enough to help us deny fat 1 base attacks.
They then loose their usefulness against end game armies.
Thus the window of infestor use is still very tight and frankly you can live without it.
Bring in the fucking defiler.
infestor is a buff, nice changes - Page 13
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
Infestors dont come out early enough to help us deny fat 1 base attacks. They then loose their usefulness against end game armies. Thus the window of infestor use is still very tight and frankly you can live without it. Bring in the fucking defiler. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
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TheButtonmen
Canada1403 Posts
ZvZ: (It's a nerf) locking down a stack of mutas just got much much harder and using fungal to keep their roachs out of formation now takes double the fungals and hitting speedlings on creep can be very difficult. ZvT: (It's a nerf I think but haven't played enough games to call it yet) At maximum range stimmed bioballs can easily avoid it but up closer it still works good, however when engaging Tank / Marine or MMM you normally want to cast it immediatly as the fight starts. Agianst dropships it's a very large nerf as you now need twice the infestors to stop a drop, it is however much better at destorying flocks of Vikings when your using Broodlords. ZvP: (It might be a buff) It's useless agianst Blink Stalkers which is annoying but I keep wondering about its usefulness agianst the deathball as it's lower duration / bonus to armored makes me think there might be a way to use it to repeatedly chip away at the deathball before bum rushing it with everything you have or chip away at the deathball until they are forced to engage you. | ||
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EcterA
United States949 Posts
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SolidMotion
Canada55 Posts
Going to be a pretty sick anti-roach/hydra spell since it will actually be useful to spam it for damage... Not going to be as effective to delay a push but def going to make it a lot weaker for the small amount of units you have to clean up :/ GG Blizz on making ZvZ even more weird... Guess I'm going to all-in every game now instead of going for a FG spam macro game.... | ||
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Nycaloth
147 Posts
ZvZ is not going to change much in my opinion. My understanding is that mutas are a bad choice in ZvZ since, by the time you have them out in meaningful numbers, you will have a huge army of roaches knocking at your door and nothing very good to fight them: lings just melt and mutas dont deal damage fast enough. Also, i dotn think it is really possible to have infestors with enough energy to FG out in time to defend against a mutalisk rush. in summary, the infestor is not the biggest problem for muta play, not dying to roaches is. as far as the roach wars are concerned... i still dont see it changing the matchup much. lets assume that both players get lair for roach speed, then you would still need to spend 100g on the pit and 150g on the glands. that is the gas value of 10 roaches already. every infestor added to the army is another 150g, or 6 less roaches. i dont think that the increased damage from FG can offset theses numbers, so when both players are on even economy, trying to transition into infestors while the other guy still gets more roaches might just kill you imo. yoou could probably still do it if you were ahead already, but in that case it is still easier to just pump more roaches and overwhelm him that way. ZvP, how will the infestor be useful against the deathball? the first FG will be completely absorbed by shields, the second FG will be largely absorbed by shields for both stalkers and zealots. A voidray's shields can fully absorb two FGs and will only take hull damage on the 3rd and only the 4th FG in a row would do any hull damage to a colossus. how many infestors were you planning to get? on what money, while still having a useful fighting army? | ||
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funk100
United Kingdom172 Posts
On February 27 2011 04:40 telfire wrote: So you realize halfway through that you are wrong, hide that fact in a spoiler, and are also wrong about not being able to dodge fungal, it's EXTREMELY slow and VERY dodgable. ok, but armored units do make up like 50% of the game, AND infestores still have their +25 energy - overall i think better than storm | ||
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Kazlestial
Singapore32 Posts
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xSuperflyTnT
United States55 Posts
I find it disheartening that players complain that a spell that in its current state makes entire armies virtually worthless will now require timing, micro, and proper unit composition to use. (isnt that what starcraft is about?) I really think that using a single unit to essentially shut down most forms of harrassment (IE. phoenyx, drops, dts, banshees, and any number of other things) as well as slow entire armies as they try to advance across the map, really cause the game to be very restrictive in play styles. If I cant harrass you I have to make a big death ball and pray basically. I am feeling and hoping that this is going to encourage new styles of play and unit compositions in the mid to late game as a slow moving death ball will be in alot of trouble if 6ish infestors can fungal the boogers out of them and then do a nice baneling drop The combination of the increaed dmg + splash from banes will be very nice in discouraging the big tightly packed armies causing them to spread out thereby reducing their effective AOE vs your clumped up army. If you aim that projectile in to the center of their ball your pretty much GOING to hit an edge of it.. I think it will be more about anticipating your opponents movements as he is backing up or moving. Regardless I hope to see more interesting forms of play and harrassment come from this, and honestly.. I dont believe the infestor should have been as useful as it was. it served SO MANY roles it was ridiculous whereas the templar was anti caster/ dps , the ghost is well... Anti caster / snipe bio unit and has a potential for movement control with properly placed nukes in battle. Infestor.... harrassment control, coutners mass small units, counters mass air, completley counters mid sized metal pushes with a thor base. You can argue all you want about "well if they split their units" etc but the truth is there is not a unit in the game that proper positioning doesnt make a big difference with and the ability to instantly lock down a massive clump of units effectively making them unable to respond to changing combat conditions is VERY VERY powerful and I agree witht he 8 - 4 second change. The projectile encourages more varied styles of play, and the dmg buff is nice so that if it accually hits with proper micro you have gained a serious advantage over those units. Think of it this way, upgrades for the most part make small changes IE zealot +1 vs lings 2 hits instead of 3 to kill the zergling thats just 4 more damage overall yet it completley changes the balance of the fight. you do 9 dps over 4 seconds to a bunch of units you have effectively negated all of their defense upgrades + a little extra meaning the rest of your army has just increased in effectiveness by a great deal. This is a very very powerful spell and I think works to increase zerg unti synergy. Anyway thats my take on it sorry if this is a bit long winded. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Apparently, you can now also spend twice the amount on banelings, and get twice the damage! same as with the infestors. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:18 morimacil wrote: Did you guys see the baneling buff though? Apparently, you can now also spend twice the amount on banelings, and get twice the damage! same as with the infestors. Wait what? | ||
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Jeffbelittle
United States468 Posts
In ZvT, Fungal growth was used to hold armies in place so that banelings could do the damage to the massive light units and so lings could clean up with full surrounds. Now that the time was lowered, it doesn't serve the purpose of holding units in place, but rather withering bio armies with ranged damage, THEN having units clean up. Basically the gas you were going to spend on banelings will be better served as infestors, which will totally clean up the light, and weaken the marauders, and the slings will clean everything up. In ZvP: Infestors were used lightly, but mainly for the purpose of holding blink stalkers in place to let slings get full surrounds. Now, I think it better serves the purpose of weakening the health of the zealots so that the slings have any easier job taking care of gateway armies. Not to mention this could totally obliterate sentries. And in ZvZ: Most infestor usage was for massive roach fights, where holding them in place meant better concaves for you. Now, we will see less roaches on the field and see a transition between mass sling builds that rely on running past zerg armies and avoiding Fungals, we MAY see more muta play, which will in turn mean more hydras coming out. And since hydras are weak health units, then the infestor will be put on the field again. Honestly, don't think of this as a buff or nerf. It's a total revamp of the spell, it's purpose has completely changed. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Yeah, everyone seems to be amazed by the fact that post patch, you can use twice the amount of infestors, and do twice the damage! So I just thought it would be useful to mention that after the patch, you will also be able to invest twice as much in banelings, and if they actually hit, they will end up doing twice as much damage, just like infestors! | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
as far as whether or not this is a buff/nerf? It gives the Z army an effective way of dealing with MMM (w/out tanks) which is really nice, it also promotes hive tech and you can still get 6-8 mutas to defend drops and prompt turrets. Hopefully we will be seeing more of the destiny/psy/bitter upgraded ling/infester/bling into quick hive plays. The last thing that could hinder this play is the speed of the fg, I played w/ it a little bit and it looked pretty fast but I don't know if it's fast enough (then again it might be perfect speed for gosu players to react and move, that would be awesome) | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:12 m00se wrote: If this is right, this is one of the best days in my life!!YES I TESTED ALL THIS IN PTR! 1)You can actually time your fungal growths now, shoot and run mmm will run straight into it. When it was instant cast your infestor had to be in range the instant it hit, which made it more vulnerable. 2) 36 damage in 4 seconds is a huge buff, u can actually place one fungal, and then another 2 seconds later and kill a bunch of marines 3) medivac can no longer outheal FG damage <---- HUGE No moar QQ. Just build some infestors and stop the terran rine push. While the infestor seems to have to be microed, it looks like now it is possible to kill rines without banlings if you have enough energy on your infestors to cast some FG in a row. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
(then again it might be perfect speed for gosu players to react and move, that would be awesome) Awesome for the opponent, not awesome for the zerg. It gives the Z army an effective way of dealing with MMM (w/out tanks) which is really nice, You can deal with MMM with banelings if they are not kiting. If they are kiting, infestors can stop that, allowing you to still kill them. But post patch, fungals can be dodged too, so that makes the infestors same as banelings. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:15 LittLeD wrote: The only thing I find weird is that when you fire the projectile against a marine ball and it moves CLOSER to the infestor, the fungal misses. Imo it should be reworked so when the projectile hits a target, the effect of the fungal begins, not that you have a set target. That'd make it so a terran player cant just run straight for your infestors in order to dodge the fungal but instead need to split to the sides, then attack the infestor. Uhhh as a zerg, don't you WANT his rines closer to your army? Lings and banelings do wonders at close range. It's similar to storm, even if the opponent dodges it, they still have to dodge into a less optimal position even if the damage itself isn't done. FG => rines run closer to kill infestor => baneling massacre. You will never (should never) have your infestors alone vs a marine army to begin with. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:03 xSuperflyTnT wrote: I do not think this is either a nerf or a buff honestly. I believe that this will change some dynamics in the meta game in pvz and really encourage some more harrass oriented play. I find it disheartening that players complain that a spell that in its current state makes entire armies virtually worthless will now require timing, micro, and proper unit composition to use. (isnt that what starcraft is about?) I really think that using a single unit to essentially shut down most forms of harrassment (IE. phoenyx, drops, dts, banshees, and any number of other things) as well as slow entire armies as they try to advance across the map, really cause the game to be very restrictive in play styles. If I cant harrass you I have to make a big death ball and pray basically. I am feeling and hoping that this is going to encourage new styles of play and unit compositions in the mid to late game as a slow moving death ball will be in alot of trouble if 6ish infestors can fungal the boogers out of them and then do a nice baneling drop The combination of the increaed dmg + splash from banes will be very nice in discouraging the big tightly packed armies causing them to spread out thereby reducing their effective AOE vs your clumped up army. If you aim that projectile in to the center of their ball your pretty much GOING to hit an edge of it.. I think it will be more about anticipating your opponents movements as he is backing up or moving. Regardless I hope to see more interesting forms of play and harrassment come from this, and honestly.. I dont believe the infestor should have been as useful as it was. it served SO MANY roles it was ridiculous whereas the templar was anti caster/ dps , the ghost is well... Anti caster / snipe bio unit and has a potential for movement control with properly placed nukes in battle. Infestor.... harrassment control, coutners mass small units, counters mass air, completley counters mid sized metal pushes with a thor base. You can argue all you want about "well if they split their units" etc but the truth is there is not a unit in the game that proper positioning doesnt make a big difference with and the ability to instantly lock down a massive clump of units effectively making them unable to respond to changing combat conditions is VERY VERY powerful and I agree witht he 8 - 4 second change. The projectile encourages more varied styles of play, and the dmg buff is nice so that if it accually hits with proper micro you have gained a serious advantage over those units. Think of it this way, upgrades for the most part make small changes IE zealot +1 vs lings 2 hits instead of 3 to kill the zergling thats just 4 more damage overall yet it completley changes the balance of the fight. you do 9 dps over 4 seconds to a bunch of units you have effectively negated all of their defense upgrades + a little extra meaning the rest of your army has just increased in effectiveness by a great deal. This is a very very powerful spell and I think works to increase zerg unti synergy. Anyway thats my take on it sorry if this is a bit long winded. You arent zerg are you? | ||
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