EPTinfestor is a buff, nice changes - Page 12
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
While i am very happy with the changes it received, i still think that the Neural Parasite is not going to be used at all. Making it both limited duration (very short) and making it be researched is just so dumb. It has the possibility of being an amazing spell but i still think that it is not worth it. And now with Fungal being so strong, NP will just get pushed further away. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
DPS is also a terrible way to look at this since fungal was not as much of an in-battle spell before in terms of doing damage. If you casted fungal in battle before it was for stun and that's less effective now, it does do more damage, so there's some trade-off, but the fact that you'll miss more often makes it worse I think. And since fungal was mostly used as a delay tactic to weaken marines and drain medivac energy it's substantially worse in that regard. I'm open to the idea that I could be proven wrong, but you didn't "TEST" anything really other than confirm that what blizzard posted in the patch notes was correct. | ||
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Aelonius
Netherlands432 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
Extra DPS is meaningless. It would be cute if Fungal functioned like Psyonic Storm, but it doesn't... Units can't move out of it once its been cast. The single decent thing to come out of this change is that infestors can now deal damage through medivac heals, but I really don't think that outweighs the negatives... Projectile targeting: This is silly. As others have pointed out, through most of the mid-game, infestors are a one-time-use kind of unit. You spend 150 gas, you cast 1 fungal, and then you hope like hell that you can keep that same infestor alive long enough to regenerate his energy. Missing a fungal, especially when playing a style that's centered around it, can be game ending. Turning it into a projectile isn't just going to make it easier to miss. It's going to make landing fungal growth a nightmare. Reduced stun duration: This is really the biggy. Right now it takes 1 fungal, and 2 infested terrans to defend a drop with an infestor. After the patch, it will take 2 fungals, and 1 infested terran. That's a much more sizable energy investment, and its going to translate to the Zerg having to keep more of his very important infestors back at his base than out on the field where they're most needed. Extra damage to armored: Let's be real with each other. The only matchup this is going to effect is the mirror. Now fungal is slightly better against roach. This sill probably result in a shift away from roach/hydra and back into roach/infestor. It's not going to make dealing with a Toss ball any easier, and it's sure as hell not going to change the way infestors are used in ZvT. All-in-all, this is a fucking dumb change in my book. I'm extremely saddened by the patch notes thus far, as all it shows is Blizzard's inability (or outright refusal) to address the problems that are mots pressing for Zerg players: The Toss ball is unkillable after 15 minutes. Zerg is extremely limited in they're options in all the matchups because the other races can so easily dictate what Z has to make just to stay alive. | ||
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Drae
70 Posts
On February 27 2011 11:29 falstag wrote: had this used on me. man this is effective. I feel that infestors now hard counter marines and scv Infestors are a hive tech unit, which is in use from around 7-9 minutes. Rine+SCV push uses tier one units at 3-5 minutes. ? | ||
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KaluGOSU
United States171 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:31 obsid wrote: WOW, some crazy ass changed, and I do agree this is a buff for FG (already one of the best spells in the game), although its not as good vr mutas/hellions/phoenix anymore as the lower mobility reduction which was the really good thing against those fast units. I think infesters are now the counter to the protoss stalker/colsi doom ball. AND the marine/marauder/medivac doom ball AND the roach/hydra doom balls. This is a wonderful change to the match up, because now we will be seeing a lot more ghost/emp and HT/feedback play, making all the zerg match ups MUCH more intresting and micro intensive (no more doom balls a+moving to victory)! Maybe even muta will become the counter to just infesters (no hydra)? As the lower stun time, means muta might be able to snipe out those infesters. Such fine words my friend(: I agree completely it will make SC2 more fun =D | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
Even though it's a nerf to FG I think it's a good change to make FG missile because it gives more micro to the game. Maybe that missile should be a little faster., or infestors should automatically come with 75 energy bevause now it will be missed much more. | ||
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Hobokinz
United States126 Posts
On February 27 2011 17:36 Drae wrote: Infestors are a hive tech unit, which is in use from around 7-9 minutes. Rine+SCV push uses tier one units at 3-5 minutes. ? ? Infestors are Lair tech. but yes, your point still stand's that a RineSCV push will come much faster than Infesors can comeout. | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
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m00se
United States41 Posts
As far as those of you who are saying I haven't tested this, I have. I can safely say that balls of marines are now hard countered. Infestors have to be used differently however no doubt about that. Having around 8+ infestors is no longer overkill due to the damage buff. I also used them in a fight where I used roaches + infestor against a mmm and it worked well. While it wasnt a "hard" counter, it definitely stood up against the terran. Why did it stand up? Because the terran could not stim, the second I engaged with roaches I used my FG's and they all went to red. And those marines that stimmed died to FG. You guys should also check out just how strong they are against miners. Its ridiculous how much faster you can take them out now. And now, the stalling argument. Yes, those extra 4 seconds are nice, but instead of stalling I can now kill them. IMO better trade off. Also, if you actually think about it for a sec, whats gonna stall a terran more? a 4 second 36 damage spell that can kill balls of rines in 6 seconds? or an 8 second damage spell that can be outhealed by medivacs. Think about it, infestors will no longer be that nuisance that they have to deal with while pushing; terrans are actually scared of them now. The new infestors will stall the terran from even moving out of his base. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On February 27 2011 17:36 Drae wrote: Infestors are a hive tech unit, which is in use from around 7-9 minutes. Rine+SCV push uses tier one units at 3-5 minutes. ? marines are used even in 2 hour long games you know, I think thats what he ment | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On February 27 2011 18:14 m00se wrote: You guys are acting like you need insane micro to use FG. The missile is simply not that slow. Its about as fast or a little faster than a zergling on creep. And its not like you are shooting your FG's across the map here, close ranges, aoe, means its not easy to dodge it. As far as those of you who are saying I haven't tested this, I have. I can safely say that balls of marines are now hard countered. Infestors have to be used differently however no doubt about that. Having around 8+ infestors is no longer overkill due to the damage buff. I also used them in a fight where I used roaches + infestor against a mmm and it worked well. While it wasnt a "hard" counter, it definitely stood up against the terran. Why did it stand up? Because the terran could not stim, the second I engaged with roaches I used my FG's and they all went to red. And those marines that stimmed died to FG. You guys should also check out just how strong they are against miners. Its ridiculous how much faster you can take them out now. And now, the stalling argument. Yes, those extra 4 seconds are nice, but instead of stalling I can now kill them. IMO better trade off. Also, if you actually think about it for a sec, whats gonna stall a terran more? a 4 second 36 damage spell that can kill balls of rines in 6 seconds? or an 8 second damage spell that can be outhealed by medivacs. Think about it, infestors will no longer be that nuisance that they have to deal with while pushing; terrans are actually scared of them now. The new infestors will stall the terran from even moving out of his base. Seems like you don't understand things at all. FG was always used from maximum range because otherwise your infestor going to die. Now on max range it will be easy to dodge for every fast unit (marine, stalker, muta, phoenix, hellion, etc.). You say 8+ infestors is not overkill? Of course it is. Do you think they are free or what? Having 8 infestors means your ground army is weak. What about worker killing - it haven't changed pretty much anything. You needed before 2 FG to kill them and you need now 2 FG. The only difference is you are going to kill them 2x faster, and that's all. | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
ZvP turning into PvP?? you heard it here first.... + Show Spoiler + in the infestor thread | ||
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m00se
United States41 Posts
On February 27 2011 18:47 Alpina wrote: Seems like you don't understand things at all. FG was always used from maximum range because otherwise your infestor going to die. Now on max range it will be easy to dodge for every fast unit (marine, stalker, muta, phoenix, hellion, etc.). You say 8+ infestors is not overkill? Of course it is. Do you think they are free or what? Having 8 infestors mean your ground army is weak. What about worker killing - it haven't changed pretty much anything. You needed before 2 FG to kill them and you need now 2 FG. The only difference is you are going to kill them 2x faster, and that's all. I never said dont shoot FG from max range, I said that at the range you are shooting the fungal, its hard to dodge. Its not overkill because they actually kill things now. It used to be overkill when they would only be used to stall because they did not have killing power, now they are actually a useful combat unit that can wipe out or really weaken units. Killing workers twice as fast is a huge buff, not a small change. Im done arguing because its obvious many of you who are complaining haven't even tried it in the ptr. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On February 27 2011 19:03 m00se wrote: I never said dont shoot FG from max range, I said that at the range you are shooting the fungal, its hard to dodge. Its not overkill because they actually kill things now. It used to be overkill when they would only be used to stall because they did not have killing power, now they are actually a useful combat unit that can wipe out or really weaken units. Killing workers twice as fast is a huge buff, not a small change. Im done arguing because its obvious many of you who are complaining haven't even tried it in the ptr. Explain me how this will be good in combat? Combat usually does not last 20 sec. so you can't throw 5 fungals and kill him that way. You going to attack, cast fungal and that's all. Yeah it will help dps wise but nothing huge. Killing workers twice as fast is a huge buff, not a small change. Man you still need 2 fungals, how this is a huge buff for killing workers? | ||
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m00se
United States41 Posts
On February 27 2011 19:11 Alpina wrote: Explain me how this will be good in combat? Combat usually does not last 20 sec. so you can't throw 5 fungals and kill him that way. You going to attack, cast fungal and that's all. Yeah it will help dps wise but nothing huge. Man you still need 2 fungals, how this is a huge buff for killing workers? Are you seriously asking me how 36 damage in 4 second is good for combat? Or how 47 damage in 4 seconds is good for combat? You can now literally spam FG on balls of units And about the workers, you can now FG for 2 seconds twice and get the hell out, instead of waiting for 6 seconds then throwing another. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On February 27 2011 19:23 m00se wrote: Are you seriously asking me how 36 damage in 4 second is good for combat? Or how 47 damage in 4 seconds is good for combat? You can now literally spam FG on balls of units And about the workers, you can now FG for 2 seconds twice and get the hell out, instead of waiting for 6 seconds then throwing another. Do you understand that the combat lasts just as long as 1 FG lasts? You are going to FG 1 time anyways. But yeah I agree it will help because the dps is higher but nothing that huge as people try to say. | ||
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Super_bricklayer
France104 Posts
Now i won't bash the changes before i can test it. Concerning the way to deal with a drop, i can imagine that if you wait for the unload of marines and move your drones, then two fungal will kill all his stuff, it's not that bad is it ? | ||
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