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United States7483 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:30 morimacil wrote:they will be able to do similar aoe to high templars for twice the cost, assuming the fungals actually ever land. Thats not really incredible.
Well, at least the enemy can't run out from under the storm after it's already down and take only 20 damage total, the root actually makes it absurdly easy to chain cast it.
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If i remember correctly this is what a lot of the community wanted, a casting move that required some amount of skill to cast as well as making the game more exciting. I'm sure there was a thread somewhere when talking about this that a lot of the community actually favored having emp n fungal with some sort of projectile.
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i already tried to fight this battle on reddit. at the end of the day i found myself asking what the point was.
my view is that low level players cannot use the potential positional advantage this now provides effectively so they view it as a nerf.
/end
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fungal is gonna rape balls in zvz and zvt now :D
wait they already rape in zvt
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for lower league players its a buff as it deals more damage/more hp. As micro stuff doesn't really go into account that much. And the skill was modded the way that you can micro easier against it.
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On February 27 2011 10:39 multiversed- wrote:
i already tried to fight this battle on reddit. at the end of the day i found myself asking what the point was.
my view is that low level players cannot use the potential positional advantage this now provides effectively so they view it as a nerf.
/end
Plz explain yourself, if anything for positional advantage its a nerf since you lose control you had with longer fungal.
that means less time to actually position your units before the fungal wears off and stuff can freely run around.
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On February 27 2011 10:46 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:39 multiversed- wrote:
i already tried to fight this battle on reddit. at the end of the day i found myself asking what the point was.
my view is that low level players cannot use the potential positional advantage this now provides effectively so they view it as a nerf.
/end Plz explain yourself, if anything for positional advantage its a nerf since you lose control you had with longer fungal. that means less time to actually position your units before the fungal wears off and stuff can freely run around.
How well would hit-and-run fungals work? I'd imagine with the better DPS that it would deplete the medivac's energy and if there are no medivacs then you can weaken them over and over.
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On February 27 2011 10:39 multiversed- wrote:
i already tried to fight this battle on reddit. at the end of the day i found myself asking what the point was.
my view is that low level players cannot use the potential positional advantage this now provides effectively so they view it as a nerf.
/end If anything they lowered the positional advantage by cutting the root in half and making the spell dodge able.
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if someone shoots fungal at you, your tenancy will be to move your army. high level players will force situations where you take fungal, or you move your army in a very bad position.
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IMO it is very good in its PTR state. While the role has changed from push stalling to push slowing, it also does quite a sizable chunk of damage.
Comparing it to psi storm is not that great. Storm does 10-80 damage depending on the other players movement. Meanwhile fungal is guaranteed damage if it hits.
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Fungals were never about the damage though, making fungal into a bad psi storm is exactly what this game doesn't need. i would'nt mind halving the damage of fungal to keep the damn same snare time. the positional advantage is by far more important than the damage.
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On February 27 2011 10:54 multiversed- wrote:
if someone shoots fungal at you, your tenancy will be to move your army. high level players will force situations where you take fungal, or you move your army in a very bad position. You are assuming way to much on this one. Pretty big difference between holding him in a position you want, and hoping he moves in a way you want.
All i really see when you this is marines poking in and out of tank lines, leaving to infestors still having the same problems in ZvT they do now with the addition of fungal being harder to land.
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i repeatedly see people making this mistake, so i am not singling you out at all... why would you force any strategy in a situation where it doesn't make any sense?
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On February 27 2011 11:01 PrinceXizor wrote:
Fungals were never about the damage though, making fungal into a bad psi storm is exactly what this game doesn't need. i would'nt mind halving the damage of fungal to keep the damn same snare time. the positional advantage is by far more important than the damage.
Personally for my play style it was always about the damage and less important was the hold, so I'm not too upset about the snare time being halved.
I usually would cast the FG and keep my army away from the fight so that the DPS could be done over the full 8 seconds before engaging with my army.
Now with the full DPS being done over half the time, I would not hesitate now to cast FG and then send my army straight in knowing that by the time they got a good concave I would have dealt at least 36 damage - possibly more if they are armoured. Also by being able to send my army in it frees up my APM to be able to concentrate on the Infestors to possibly try and deal more damage with more FG's or if needed micro them away if they are in a bad position.
Not saying that the snare time being reduced isn't going to hurt some people's playstyle... Just for me (and I would imagine at least a few others) it will play right into my way of playing.
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On February 27 2011 08:08 morimacil wrote:Show nested quote +that sux for terran;
now zergs basically have psionic storms that cannot be dodged. they can be dodged more easily than storms, and still do half the damage. Show nested quote +As a protoss player, I think this is great since it encourages micro and harass from protoss as opposed to the deathball strategy. Right now, if I try to harass zerg with blink stalkers, 1-2 good funghals that I cannot dodge will mean the death of the majority of my stalker ball as they get engulfed by lings and roaches. I need to keep my stalkers with my collossus and 1a around. Also means that infestors cannot counter fast air like mutas and phoenix which is great. Before, 1 good funghal and all my phoenixes are just stuck waiting for some hydras to come wipe them out. Now, I can dodge them and even if I fail, zerg will probably need another FG to hold my phoenix .
My only concern is actually they would be too good at killing sentries which protoss really needs in the mid-game to be effective vs zerg. However, probably have collossus to outrange the infestors or HTs that can feedback the infestors so not the end of the world. Also, the fact that protoss have more harass strats open to them now will probably keep this balanced. You think its great, because now you can harass uncontested, on top of having a deathball? And you think its too good if for 450 gas, zerg is allowed to kill a clump of undefended sentries left stationary and unattended?
Are you serious? I believe there are still lots of ways to defend vs stalker and phoenix harass without infestors. This change simply means they are still actually viable once infestors come out. Right now, you simply cannot use blink vs someone with infestors since if you lose ~10 stalkers to 2 FG its GG.
I didn't say the sentries were undefended. I'm saying if I lump 8-9 sentries into a gateway, collossus, sentry deathball, you could use repeat FGs during the course of an engagement to take them all out plus soften up units around them. This makes infestors a lot better vs any kinds of deathball.There is no way a protoss can spare 800-900 gas in the midgame so this make infestors genuinely scary wheras right now, they suck vs protoss deathballs. However, like I said in my post, it will be hard for zerg to pull off against a good protoss player given collossus or HTs so it deserves to be so powerful.
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On February 27 2011 11:07 multiversed- wrote:
i repeatedly see people making this mistake, so i am not singling you out at all... why would you force any strategy in a situation where it doesn't make any sense? Or you could actually prove your claims rather then posing hypothetical questions. Terrans will almost always have tanks and protoss will almost always have colossi, by that logic infestors never make sense.
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no one is going to mass infestor vs seigetank pushes. you look like an idiot. scout plz.
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On February 27 2011 11:19 multiversed- wrote:
no one is going to mass infestor vs seigetank pushes. you look like an idiot. scout plz. I never said anything about mass infestor
Also heres a nice writeup on infestors over mutas vs marine/tank play
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193058
You have any actual argument other then calling me an idiot?
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On February 27 2011 11:16 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 11:07 multiversed- wrote:
i repeatedly see people making this mistake, so i am not singling you out at all... why would you force any strategy in a situation where it doesn't make any sense? Or you could actually prove your claims rather then posing hypothetical questions. Terrans will almost always have tanks and protoss will almost always have colossi, by that logic infestors never make sense.
sup?
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On February 27 2011 11:22 multiversed- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 11:16 uSnAmplified wrote:On February 27 2011 11:07 multiversed- wrote:
i repeatedly see people making this mistake, so i am not singling you out at all... why would you force any strategy in a situation where it doesn't make any sense? Or you could actually prove your claims rather then posing hypothetical questions. Terrans will almost always have tanks and protoss will almost always have colossi, by that logic infestors never make sense. sup? You are either really stupid or a troll.
I will assume both and be on my merry way. Would rather not waste my time bashing my head against a wall versus a 10 post count troll with no legitimate arguments.
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EPT
