EPTedit: That is, if they were to change Fungal Growth at all.
infestor is a buff, nice changes - Page 15
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FIRETRUCK
Sweden78 Posts
edit: That is, if they were to change Fungal Growth at all. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
While this is true, it is not the whole story. You can cast an FG and then when the opponent moves his army to avoid the missile, already have casted another FG so that one them hits some units. So what, the whole story is that you can invest twice the amount, and perhaps catch the marines on the second fungal?also marines should be softened up for the banelings. The current fungal actually hits marines, softens them up, and holds them in place for banelings. The postpatch fungal doesnt hit marines, doesnt soften them up any more when it does hit, and doesnt hold the marines in place for long enough to hit them with banelings when it does hit. | ||
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:46 plagiarisedwords wrote: Also means that infestors cannot counter fast air like mutas and phoenix which is great. Before, 1 good funghal and all my phoenixes are just stuck waiting for some hydras to come wipe them out. Now, I can dodge them and even if I fail, zerg will probably need another FG to hold my phoenix . Due to the mobility of the Phoenix and the faster build time introduced last patch, instant 8-sec duration fungal is presently the most effective way of gaining map control against the strategy. Any reasonable phoenix-harasser will ensure they never ever get hit by the new projectile with very basic micro. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
I do understand the reason you might want to control mutalisks and phoeni (lolol tastosis) though, as they're actually harassment units - but against Terran I can not see how this is not a buff (I'm fairly certain the projectile speed will be buffed, unless they want fungal to become another SHIT SEEKER MISSILE NVMLOL OVERLORD GOT AWAY.) | ||
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Sarchasm
South Africa64 Posts
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
Against Protoss they're still mostly irrelevant as far as I can tell. Curious to se how it'll pan out in ZvZ, the only match up where they're actually used a lot. Fungal growth is actually doing decent damage against roaches now, but losing 4 seconds of immobilisation hurts more. Besides zergings and especially mutas will have a much easier time against them. Overall I'm pretty sure we'll find it's a nerf; but I guess only testing will tell. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
This isnt like dodging a baneling, its 75 energy from a really expensive and fragile spellcaster. It should be very difficult to dodge if at all. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
In ZvP it very much remains to be seen in FG spam could actually weaken the deathball. | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
On February 28 2011 03:23 SurroundSound wrote: sc2 players are the biggest whiners. This is a buff. The missile is better gameplay. Try picking up some gosu skills and timing the shot. This change will seperate the good zergies from the bad zergies. Just like Protoss players have to time their 200/200 deathball collossus and void ray lasers to melt the Z army....right? Lots of gosu skills involved? | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
Also, ZvZ Mutas might become viable again through strong micro because if you can dodge the fungal you can do good damage. I'm so tired of ZvZ being all about mass Roach, at least with the missile, mutas may become viable again which I think is a good thing and actually makes the match up less bland. | ||
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FIRETRUCK
Sweden78 Posts
As a terran player I really don't get the "omg this is no longer a control spell." I do not recall a single situation where it was used as anything but a damage spell (and an incredibly strong one at that. Why would you need to control a marineball when you can simply recast fungal and kill them. Same goes for the vikings: If they were hit by fungal, they'd die unless all access points to the vikings were covered by tanks. I do understand the reason you might want to control mutalisks and phoeni (lolol tastosis) though, as they're actually harassment units - but against Terran I can not see how this is not a buff (I'm fairly certain the projectile speed will be buffed, unless they want fungal to become another SHIT SEEKER MISSILE NVMLOL OVERLORD GOT AWAY.) Because it's clearly INTENDED to work as a delayer of pushes. it wouldnt make sense to have a nuke-spell and a nuke unit (banelings). What I mean is that you cast fungal once, and then it goes away, just like you only use your banelings once and they "go away". If the spell isnt working as intended, that's not a reason to just change it completely and say "well, why kill units with banelings when fungal growth does a better job at it!?". Instead the spell should get changed so that it can fill its purpose/role. Yes, the new fungal is gonna rape vikings. I think broodlord infestor is gonna reign supreme if this goes unchecked. I think it would be a cool idea to roll the baneling and the infestor into one unit. A suicide unit that, when it hits the target, it takes damage and gets frozen in place. However I think it would be much better to change the fungal growth into the push-delayer that its intended to be and let players figure out which units should deal the damage. | ||
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Bellygareth
France512 Posts
On February 28 2011 19:53 [F_]aths wrote: Actually, zerg already won the GSL. Actually twice. Actually at a time where zerg was widely considered UP. Less QQ, more improve? Zerg is deadly in hands of a gosu. While this is true, it is not the whole story. You can cast an FG and then when the opponent moves his army to avoid the missile, already have casted another FG so that one them hits some units. With the good DPS, FG is quite nice. You should be able to get rid of lings and banelings quite fast, also marines should be softened up for the banelings. I would also like to watch what the pros are doing with this spell. See my point 2 : my infestors don't have infinite energy. Missing a fungal will hurt more than ever and you will miss more of them than ever. If they make fungal 50 energy then I can agree with the change maybe. I really don't like any of the things they're changing anyway, even the terran nerfs seems unjustified and inadequate... | ||
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Squirrel
United States1102 Posts
But sitting down and thinking, I think it actually is pretty good for us overall. I just hope they speed up the missle...it's super, super slow atm. You can walk away from it with just about everything... | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:40 Antisocialmunky wrote: I don't like this really. The amount of cost effectiveness that this will potentially give the Ling/Infestor/Ultra build may potentially make this the ONE RIGHT ANSWER in TvZ. :-\ Which means that T might have to change their play, and then Z and so on and on.. | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
Meh. I think it will work just fine. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
I like this a bit better. Make it slow, like concussive, not completely immobilize, and for 8 seconds. Lower the AoE by about a quarter or so. Maybe more. Make it do ~1.5x the damage(1 shot marines/scvs). Able to cast while burrowed(ok, this might be too much, but it would make it very defiler-esque). Make it cost 50 energy per shot. Make infestors start with 40 energy. Upgrade adds 25 energy upon spawning. Makes them insta-fungal on spawn, and 2 fungals isn't far away. Take away bonus vs armored, and move it to vs light. This way the micro battle between marine/infestor could get really intense as you'd have a lot of fungal to throw around, it would decimate marines, but they can also dodge it fairly easily. While it would also hurt tanks and such, the small AoE would make it a rather inefficient use of the fungal. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 28 2011 21:47 EmilA wrote: As a terran player I really don't get the "omg this is no longer a control spell." I do not recall a single situation where it was used as anything but a damage spell (and an incredibly strong one at that. Why would you need to control a marineball when you can simply recast fungal and kill them. Same goes for the vikings: If they were hit by fungal, they'd die unless all access points to the vikings were covered by tanks. I do understand the reason you might want to control mutalisks and phoeni (lolol tastosis) though, as they're actually harassment units - but against Terran I can not see how this is not a buff (I'm fairly certain the projectile speed will be buffed, unless they want fungal to become another SHIT SEEKER MISSILE NVMLOL OVERLORD GOT AWAY.) pre PTR: Oh no my marines got fungal'd i need to sit there with my medivacs for 8 seconds draining energy + siege up my tanks or risk losing my army, then move out 12 seconds post fungal. Post PTR: oh no an infestor is coming, stim and run toward it, and then make a 90 degree turn as soon as the projectile is launched, then resume course and kill the infestor. and then engage. (total of 4 seconds) alternately: Oh no my marines got fungal'd, i need to sit here for 6 second to heal with my medivacs and then move out. 6 seconds total no siege needed since the marines hit can be healed or moved to the back by the time banes try to come in, or load them into the medivac. and this is regardless of all other control parts of the spell (drops, air battle, preventing landing/sieging/blinking) prevent retreat, force sieging, prevent collosus kiting (when a collosus can outrun your spell, you have an issue). each of these uses' effectiveness are cut by more than half, because not only is the effect half, but the ability to dodge it allows to be unreliable. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On February 28 2011 23:49 Bellygareth wrote: If we consider infestors buffed in 1.3 (22% more HP, 30% more damage to armoured versus 50% less stun duration but doubled DPS, however missile instead of instant cast) we zerg will build more infestors. More infestors = larger energy pool for infestor spells.See my point 2 : my infestors don't have infinite energy. Missing a fungal will hurt more than ever and you will miss more of them than ever. If they make fungal 50 energy then I can agree with the change maybe. I really don't like any of the things they're changing anyway, even the terran nerfs seems unjustified and inadequate... Why so much general whine in this thread? The new FG spell is more BW-like: Hard to execute properly, but devestating if used properly. | ||
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