EPT[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 14
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Zyban
United States54 Posts
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
EDIT: Question mark? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
nevertheless if you're not into this kind of thing, just make a full block and chronboost out units out of 2 gate, no need for 2nd sentry, just units, and pull probes if he brakes the full wall 3200 masters here (and totally trying out this build :D) | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 02 2011 17:29 aquanda wrote: Friend tried it on a 2.9K Masters Toss who has never read this thread and he beat it easily by making some cannons and sentries. Please change thread title to reflect the possible'ness of beating this build. Also, the game was on close position Meta. do you know what a question mark is? | ||
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Everhate
United States640 Posts
Of course, if the zerg opted to, as has been mentioned, the zerg player could pull the drones off gas after mining enough for the push, put them back on mins, and be able to expand. While this is late, the pressure kind of serves as a game state reset (protoss has been delayed, probably to a lesser extent, if he opts to forge + cannon defense) So, while in this case it's not all-in, it certainly makes for an interesting building-block to explore and see what can develop from this. On topic. One thing that came to mind, and may not work out due to the timing, would be the zealot/stalker pressure (with the stalker popping when the zealot is 40-50% of the way there) and how, if at all, that would change the timing/availability of larva for the zerg player. At best, it seems they'd end up dying as speed finished, perhaps delaying the roaches/push for long enough to get WG finished. Zealot/stalker pressure isn't something you particularly want to do against speedling/expand though...bleh. I dunno, these are the thoughts that come to me when i read forums/watch replays instead of sleeping. Edit: Spelling, prob more mistakes to be edited as I learn to read better. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
start with forge, pylon block the ramp and put a cannon or three behind it, autowin vs Z | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13406 Posts
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Nis
Singapore45 Posts
The master zerg I was playing agianst went afk so i cant really test it again but it involves probe cut at 20, second gas before first zealot, 1 chrono on gate and 4 chrono on core, as well as intentional food block at 26 to drop 2 additional gates (+ build the third sentry) before dropping a pylon. 2 FFs at ramp, keeping sentries safe from roach snipes from below, before second ff ends, drop a fourth gateway to full wall off as you morph the additional gates and warp in 2 stalker 1 sentry. If he tries to force his way up, FF his forces in half and pick off the lings. Cancel the fourth gate at the last moment after 2 warp cycles and resume macro game with expand | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 02 2011 17:39 ZeromuS wrote: I am not sure about how to deal with this but i feel you should have left a probe at his natural to scout if they are expanding or not. im pretty sure i do go check with a probe. u can't just leave a probe sitting there or the zerg will surely go kill it with lings. | ||
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Obelisk7
Korea (South)65 Posts
Cancel the core, start a second Gateway, and then get two zealots. Build a core, get two more zealots. By the time his attack comes, the minerals you used for the third gateway with what you did normally instead is used on forces to hold the attack off. Core should finish while you chrono out zealots to deal with mass lings, and have a sentry chrono'ed with the other gate providing zealots. From there I'm not sure how things would pan out...but if the attack is being held off then forcefield and reinforce army. Would something like that work ? | ||
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DeminRamst
Australia13 Posts
The fact that we'll be potentially 600 minerals behind at the start, and for all we know they've cancelled the Roach Warren... it FEELS like this is completely broken at first glance. | ||
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
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Audi309
United States90 Posts
this also relies on close positions to really be effective - cross position on metal sentries should be there in time | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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TearDrop
63 Posts
600 minerals isn´t even that much seeing how you are ahead in worker by like 10. No way any zerg can recover from that. | ||
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
Ahem. So, wdh? I watched the replay, and first thing I thought was, wow, that's a total load of bull crap, because that came so fast. 5:00 mark, and he's going up your base and you've got nothing to defend. OKAY WHEW. I did some hard core analysis, with some of the very early gate builds I was trying early on, and I figure I can somewhat defend this, with obvious pulling of a few probes here and there. First thing to note, I get second gas late as hell. 9 pylon 12 gate <- You got 13 gate. Marginal but important? Tbh I doubt it but w/e. 14 assim 16 pylon Barely 17 cyber (or 18 really) 19 gate(cut probes for a moment here) 24 assim First of all. ROFL on le copter. I know it's a bit weird for you guys, but I was comparing timing with my early gateway, and realized my extra units pop up at 5:20, which coincidentally on that replay, is just the time those speedlings start to arrive at ur base! So first the build. You get zealot as fast as possible, not messing with cyber timing. Moment zealot finishes, stalker out of the same gateway. You're building second gateway. The 1st gate finishes stalker and 2nd gate finishes at good timings within each other. Build another zealot, and a sentry. How this build would work: So first of all, here's the units you would have. 2 zealots, a stalker, and a sentry. AGAINST, 12 lings and 3 roaches. Well first thing to say is, kind of ouch? Zealots will clean up lings with a fair amount of decency, in this case you use the ff from your sentry to just split the speedlings, so your zealots should be able to kill like 6 of the lings. 10 probes lead can be used to kill (obviously you don't know this, so a move all probes really..) Would it work? 2 zealots, stalker, sentry (with only 1 ff) 10 probes vs 12 speedlings and 3 roaches. I have to say that's actually a tough call, but I mean even if you barely live you're ahead in tech, and can proceed to faceroll his rushing ass. Besides, most rushers even just quit when their attack fails. Now in the replay I used as a reference I actually didn't chrono boost anything but the stalker, because I wasn't in any kind of early attack, it was just a 2 gate robo variation I was trying against a 4 gate protoss lol. ANYWAY, timing of when units pop can definitely be enhanced with the chrono boosts. Still wondering if the armies listed above would clash well, and protoss would come out ahead. And note that of course while this is going on, he's sending more speedlings while you're building out of 2 gateways (I believe warp gate tech finishes around this point), and feasibly a 3rd gate if you start cutting the probes. It's pretty close. Zealot and stalker make do for about 10 seconds facing 3 roaches, until zealot and sentry pops, at which time speedlings come. Pull 10 probes, and its an "interesting" battle. Still, you have the ff on your side and the wall, which dramatically decreases the effectiveness of zerglings. Not sure if you can fend it off, it's a strong push ><" -- EDIT: So basically I'd like to know. You have high ground, and 1 force field to use. 10 Probes, 1 stalker, 2 zealots, 1 sentry 3 Roaches, 12 speedlings Who wins? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 02 2011 17:53 TearDrop wrote: You can´t hold a 4gate without building 1-2 spinecrawlers yes... u certainly can. also, spinecrawlers can move, AND they are being used to protect an expansion, which makes it a ridiculous comparison anyways. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13406 Posts
On February 02 2011 17:40 travis wrote: im pretty sure i do go check with a probe. u can't just leave a probe sitting there or the zerg will surely go kill it with lings. yes he can kill it with lings but its just one probe and knowing that he isnt expanding gives you info. Upon rewatching the replay yeah you did scout with the probe. To me, honestly, I feel that this rush is really just designed to exploit the fact that Protoss needs to tech to cybernetics core and warpgate but this is detrimental because theres only one gateway up and working when this attack comes. While a forge would help I agree that it isn't realy viable since it does put your tech to stalkers behind and this is a necessary tech to get alongside warpgate research. and cannons are expensive. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
This definitely is going to shift PvZ for a while to come, at least on the short-rush distance maps. Or maybe even the normal Forge FE maps (like Shakuras-Cross). As Zerg figure it out more, there's also room for it to become far more deadly. Oh, and the replays Stomp put up were pretty good. I really loved the 2 rax, 4 marines + 6 SCV rush that saw 3 roachs and went "oh shit", ran back, threw up some bunkers and promptly died. (That's never a bad thing to see!) Yeah, this is going to change a lot of things. | ||
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