EPT[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 16
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Yurie
12099 Posts
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EG.Thorzain
Sweden164 Posts
I was able to continously force field the ramp from 5:15 onwards (around 5:15 is when his roaches arrived at your ramp). Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/Gl-YItB4/Metalopolis__19_.html | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
Watched your replay and your warptech could have been chrono'ed more, extra gates could have went down earlier. You also wasted your forcefields. Full wall off with an extra building, and let them attack it while you snipe his units. FF only when absolutely needed. In hindsight I probably should have completed the wall with a forge instead, and use cannons to re-wall in. That would make life much easier. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
On February 02 2011 18:12 Asparagus wrote: you know, instead of the 20+ zerglings he made, he could easily just pull 3 drones from gas, and add 3 more before the initial push, leaving him closer to 20 (i don't cut drones at 14 lol wtf man) even from the replay, his zerglings were overkill. OK, I'm definitely removing the TLDR... If he drones up more before the push and Travis did what I suggested with a forge + 2 cannons, the push will fail even harder when it comes, and if the push fails without dealing significant damage, z is definitely behind compared to p. Building a pylon to wall off and 2 cannons nullifies the attack pretty well. At worst it would have delayed the attack, giving Travis time to complete wg research and make 2 more sentries to hold off the ramp permanently - when the z broke through, travis had 1 warp-in ready from a just-finished warpgate, and 1 sentry on the way from a gateway. If 2 cannons and a wall had delayed the push by just 10 seconds, Travis would have had another sentry out for another forcefield, giving him time to get the second sentry and forcefield again. That makes 4 sentries and that means permanent forcefields. Alternatively, you could get stalkers/zealots out to fight back and along with the cannons, z isn't getting through a small choke against zealots with mainly lings and 3 roaches. I don't know what the better response is, I don't play P (I'm guessing heavy zealots would be best, though) but I do know Z isn't breaking through that. When the push broke P's ramp, P had a 10 harvester lead. Even with 3 more drones, that's still a lead of 7, and if the push fails, which it almost certainly would, Z is down an army and 7 drones, which is a lot at this point. Please note I'm just theorycrafting... wouldn't mind testing this stuff out with someone, but I need to go AFK for a few hours  | ||
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Nis
Singapore45 Posts
On February 02 2011 18:41 Looky wrote: not when he pylon block it at his small choke where 1 ling would hit it. every protoss block with gateway and core. no way he would break a pylon with 3 roaches. plus you wouldnt want to cancel a gateway since you need to make units. Actually its really eady to break that pylon because it is warping in and 3 roach can outdps the warp in. unless you pylon that gap really early, before the roaches arrive. But if you add a pylon after you ff then it can get broken down really fast. I dont quite like the idea of walling myself in totally before I see an attack though, but thats my personal preference | ||
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InsaniaK
Sweden120 Posts
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kerminator
Austria75 Posts
And you had 500 overmins when he attacked you | ||
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Hollywise
France112 Posts
On February 02 2011 13:41 travis wrote: because the matchup is retarded if i have to blindly get cannons every game vs zerg? i wanted to try to stop it without cannons. and i want to stop coloball without corruptors | ||
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Nashun
United States56 Posts
On February 02 2011 19:15 InsaniaK wrote: You complain about having to put cannons down? EVERY zerg build which isn't pretty much all-ni has to pump roach/ling while making spines, vs protoss, so that isn't imbalanced then? That's because you're getting an expo that you didn't earn. Play off of one base and earn your expansion like everyone else and you won't need to make any spines. Protoss being forced to make cannons 1 base vs. 1 is a lot more ridiculous than zerg having to put up spines to protect their expansion that they get "for free" | ||
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cmpcmp
84 Posts
My suggestion for beating it without having to lose a probe or anything like that: 1-If the zerg 13 pools you should see it when your scout goes to the zerg base (assuming a 9 pylon scout). You will also see the 13 gas. If you see both of these things... [move to step 2] 2-Once the pool finishes you still have 24 seconds before a zergling could possibly come out, so check the pool to see if he upgrades ling speed (the pool will shake reflecting that it is "evolving" an upgrade. This is important because in the replay your opponent made the warren immediately after the pool finished. Even if he delays for the 24 seconds, that would really slow down the build. Continually scout to see if he throws down a roach warren. [if true go to step 3] 3-If you see the warren, throw down a forge and 2 cannons and proceed to 4 gate, if not play normally. In either case, keep scouting to see if he expands, tries to "fake" the build, or does it delayed by ~20 seconds. | ||
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huyNh
Canada366 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On February 02 2011 18:54 Thorzain wrote: I'm not a protoss player but i think i have a solution. It's quite simple. Delay your warp gate tech and instead just make sentrys. Use 3 chrono boosts on probes and the rest on sentrys. Then add some more gates. Start your warp gate tech when you started your 3rd sentry. I was able to continously force field the ramp from 5:15 onwards (around 5:15 is when his roaches arrived at your ramp). Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/Gl-YItB4/Metalopolis__19_.html Can't check the rep right now for the timings, but normally the overlord gives vision so that roaches can pick up stuff from the low-ground - if not units then at least buildings. While this "might" not be a major problem vs only 3 roaches, from the set-up of the zerg-BO it's literally impossible to know if he isn't going for a all roach all-in. Meaning, if he doesn't get ling speed but invests his gas into more roach, you are basicly screwed because the roaches will shred your buildings into pieces quite quickly. The cannons are not necessary specificly vs heavy ling play (I believe what you are saying, that you are able to prevent this by constantly force-fielding) but vs the roach picking off stuff from the low-ground. | ||
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
You can stop this with forcefields. I posted this a few pages ago, rewatch the replay if you're in doubt. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Ho damn there is one zerg that rush in this damn game... imbalance! It's all in, the guy have 14 drone. When I'm getting 4gated, I just can't defend the rush without spine crawlers, even if I know it come at this time. And it's even less all in than that. | ||
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Asparagus
United States269 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On February 02 2011 18:54 Thorzain wrote: I'm not a protoss player but i think i have a solution. It's quite simple. Delay your warp gate tech and instead just make sentrys. Use 3 chrono boosts on probes and the rest on sentrys. Then add some more gates. Start your warp gate tech when you started your 3rd sentry. I was able to continously force field the ramp from 5:15 onwards (around 5:15 is when his roaches arrived at your ramp). Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/Gl-YItB4/Metalopolis__19_.html Can't check the rep right now for the timings, but normally the overlord gives vision so that roaches can pick up stuff from the low-ground - if not units then at least buildings. While this "might" not be a major problem vs only 3 roaches, from the set-up of the zerg-BO it's literally impossible to know if he isn't going for a all roach all-in. Meaning, if he doesn't get ling speed but invests his gas into more roach, you are basicly screwed because the roaches will shred your buildings into pieces quite quickly. The cannons are not necessary specificly vs heavy ling play (I believe what you are saying, that you are able to prevent this by constantly force-fielding) but vs the roach picking off stuff from the low-ground. | ||
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InsaniaK
Sweden120 Posts
On February 02 2011 19:27 Nashun wrote: That's because you're getting an expo that you didn't earn. Play off of one base and earn your expansion like everyone else and you won't need to make any spines. Protoss being forced to make cannons 1 base vs. 1 is a lot more ridiculous than zerg having to put up spines to protect their expansion that they get "for free" First of all a 1 base zerg is waaay worse than a 1base protoss. Secondly you have to do spinecrawlers even though you're on 1base vs a 4gate. | ||
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