• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:58
CET 05:58
KST 13:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners4Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!24$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1638 users

[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 42

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 40 41 42 All
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
March 01 2011 11:48 GMT
#821
On March 01 2011 14:00 milfhunter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2011 10:24 iChau wrote:
On March 01 2011 10:05 milfhunter wrote:
Hi Antimage! I am really sorry this is a bit off topic but do you usually 3 gate anyway? Also do you still opening void ray every game? What is your standard build these days?


When I was on his stream, I asked him this. He doesn't use the void ray expand anymore, but he does use the 3 gate sentry expo (iirc).


Yes I actually did see that on his game, thats why I wanted to ask. it just feels like at the low master level, 3 gate expo will make you so behind because its so easy for the Z to take a 3rd, and your sentry zealots certainlly isn't going to be able to put ANY sort of pressure on the Z at all without risking loosing everything you got.

Even with perfect forcefields, mid map its just so suicidal when there is speedlings running around.

IChau what do you like opening with? Do you guys reckon a 15 nexus will be able to hold off 3roach speedlings?



When you 3 gate expand, then zerg has to match your army, and as a result, zerg will be cutting his econ to do so

Obviously, you have to actually force him to match your army by applying SOME kind of pressure, because if he say, makes an entire round of drones with zero zerglings, and you turn up at his nat right after, he loses the game

If he has actually make those zerglings, then youre in a good position, mostly because zerglings are very larvae expensive.
Not only that, the key is to attack really early, (and i mean REALLY early) - hence why whenever i 3g expand ill spend all my chrono on gates so that i can do an early a push as possible with my 3g. The reason is the earlier you pressure zerg, the less econ he has and the more he has to invest in army, which again, makes it EVEN MORE difficult to come back.
Most low-mid(even high) masters tosses push out way too late and zerg has already saturated his main and natural, and THEN makes the big wad of zerglings
Lastly, for your "early push" timing you have to actually scout the zergs army count.. somehow
One way of doing this is using hallucinate (which you have to invest in asap when your warpgate finishes) - which is too slow if oyur opponent didnt do a gas/pool build, in which case his speed lings are late so you need to push out with your first stalker/zealot to scout and force some lings

If you 3g expand, even if zerg matches your initial army, but then he greeds like crazy then you are going to be behind because you let him greed like crazy, so constant pressure is really important
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 15:43:55
March 01 2011 13:10 GMT
#822
Watch this replay... I believe it is a solution to the problem

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145026-1v1-protoss-steppes-of-war

You definitely don't need cannons to stop this. Cannons may make it easy, but if you don't wanna waste money on static defenses you don't need to. I stopped this the other day on my friends comp, and my micro was horrible cuz his mouse and shit was weird. If you keep doin a 3 gate expand build you're usually okay with chrono's on your warpgates. I also blocked off with a couple pylons. It was messy but I cleaned it up and only lost like 3 probes.

The replay above though is a different solution. If you chrono your cyber 4 times and your gateway once to hustle out the 2nd sentry you can have your ramp FF from the 5 min mark until your warpgate tech is up and then u can have it perma FF. Try reading more than the OP guys.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
Freeborn
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany421 Posts
March 01 2011 13:48 GMT
#823
wtf dude nice thread, I'm gonna steal his build for my zerg play ;D
Just kicked some protoss ass with it^^
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
March 02 2011 17:00 GMT
#824
On February 28 2011 23:31 Antimage wrote:
I countered this build versus a 3600 masters zerg with a 3 gate standard opening with decent pylon/gateway placement (after messing up my initial wall) on Mr Bitter's stream last night.

Don't know what all the fuss is about, just cut workers to get all 3 gates out faster - no need for a forge.

Can I have a link to this video? I could learn a lot from it.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 18:08:06
March 02 2011 18:06 GMT
#825
Do people still lose to this? 3gate expand crushes this so hard (you just need earlier gates). When you go for 6 sentry perma ramp block, your money sky rockets, you can chronoboost your nexus non stop through the entire time, when you expand you can have your expo at 80% saturation the moment it comes up while the Zerg is screwed
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
March 06 2011 10:15 GMT
#826
On March 01 2011 04:31 Antimage wrote:
If you build a forge then you'll miss out on a potential counter-attack (which you will have a chance to do with more gates), allowing the zerg to more readily recover from his early-game gamble.

Don't mean to sound like I know it better than you, you're higher than me after all. However, the roach rush is pretty much all in, if you hold it you're so far ahead you don't even need to punish him because he already is. Forge is less risky in this situation and it's also extremely helpfull in surviving early pool rushes. What I'd do is expand right after I beat his roach push, then go 6 gate timing push after +1 dmg finishes, 14 forge just feels a lot more safe, I can hardly imagine him surviving this after his semi-allin earlier . This is all my opinion of course, but is it really that important to counter attack after it?
Prev 1 40 41 42 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #58
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup 150 Open Qual
Liquipedia
LAN Event
18:00
Day 3: Ursa 2v2, FFA
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 202
NeuroSwarm 196
ProTech121
Nina 104
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9180
Shuttle 703
Leta 661
EffOrt 100
Tasteless 88
Noble 88
Bale 14
Icarus 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever452
LuMiX1
Other Games
summit1g10892
tarik_tv9984
JimRising 512
WinterStarcraft362
C9.Mang0236
ViBE160
goatrope33
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick869
Counter-Strike
PGL176
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 23
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt446
Other Games
• Scarra703
Upcoming Events
OSC
7h 2m
LAN Event
10h 2m
Korean StarCraft League
22h 2m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 5h
LAN Event
1d 10h
IPSL
1d 13h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 15h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.