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[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 42

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
March 01 2011 11:48 GMT
#821
On March 01 2011 14:00 milfhunter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2011 10:24 iChau wrote:
On March 01 2011 10:05 milfhunter wrote:
Hi Antimage! I am really sorry this is a bit off topic but do you usually 3 gate anyway? Also do you still opening void ray every game? What is your standard build these days?


When I was on his stream, I asked him this. He doesn't use the void ray expand anymore, but he does use the 3 gate sentry expo (iirc).


Yes I actually did see that on his game, thats why I wanted to ask. it just feels like at the low master level, 3 gate expo will make you so behind because its so easy for the Z to take a 3rd, and your sentry zealots certainlly isn't going to be able to put ANY sort of pressure on the Z at all without risking loosing everything you got.

Even with perfect forcefields, mid map its just so suicidal when there is speedlings running around.

IChau what do you like opening with? Do you guys reckon a 15 nexus will be able to hold off 3roach speedlings?



When you 3 gate expand, then zerg has to match your army, and as a result, zerg will be cutting his econ to do so

Obviously, you have to actually force him to match your army by applying SOME kind of pressure, because if he say, makes an entire round of drones with zero zerglings, and you turn up at his nat right after, he loses the game

If he has actually make those zerglings, then youre in a good position, mostly because zerglings are very larvae expensive.
Not only that, the key is to attack really early, (and i mean REALLY early) - hence why whenever i 3g expand ill spend all my chrono on gates so that i can do an early a push as possible with my 3g. The reason is the earlier you pressure zerg, the less econ he has and the more he has to invest in army, which again, makes it EVEN MORE difficult to come back.
Most low-mid(even high) masters tosses push out way too late and zerg has already saturated his main and natural, and THEN makes the big wad of zerglings
Lastly, for your "early push" timing you have to actually scout the zergs army count.. somehow
One way of doing this is using hallucinate (which you have to invest in asap when your warpgate finishes) - which is too slow if oyur opponent didnt do a gas/pool build, in which case his speed lings are late so you need to push out with your first stalker/zealot to scout and force some lings

If you 3g expand, even if zerg matches your initial army, but then he greeds like crazy then you are going to be behind because you let him greed like crazy, so constant pressure is really important
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 15:43:55
March 01 2011 13:10 GMT
#822
Watch this replay... I believe it is a solution to the problem

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145026-1v1-protoss-steppes-of-war

You definitely don't need cannons to stop this. Cannons may make it easy, but if you don't wanna waste money on static defenses you don't need to. I stopped this the other day on my friends comp, and my micro was horrible cuz his mouse and shit was weird. If you keep doin a 3 gate expand build you're usually okay with chrono's on your warpgates. I also blocked off with a couple pylons. It was messy but I cleaned it up and only lost like 3 probes.

The replay above though is a different solution. If you chrono your cyber 4 times and your gateway once to hustle out the 2nd sentry you can have your ramp FF from the 5 min mark until your warpgate tech is up and then u can have it perma FF. Try reading more than the OP guys.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
Freeborn
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany421 Posts
March 01 2011 13:48 GMT
#823
wtf dude nice thread, I'm gonna steal his build for my zerg play ;D
Just kicked some protoss ass with it^^
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
March 02 2011 17:00 GMT
#824
On February 28 2011 23:31 Antimage wrote:
I countered this build versus a 3600 masters zerg with a 3 gate standard opening with decent pylon/gateway placement (after messing up my initial wall) on Mr Bitter's stream last night.

Don't know what all the fuss is about, just cut workers to get all 3 gates out faster - no need for a forge.

Can I have a link to this video? I could learn a lot from it.
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 18:08:06
March 02 2011 18:06 GMT
#825
Do people still lose to this? 3gate expand crushes this so hard (you just need earlier gates). When you go for 6 sentry perma ramp block, your money sky rockets, you can chronoboost your nexus non stop through the entire time, when you expand you can have your expo at 80% saturation the moment it comes up while the Zerg is screwed
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
March 06 2011 10:15 GMT
#826
On March 01 2011 04:31 Antimage wrote:
If you build a forge then you'll miss out on a potential counter-attack (which you will have a chance to do with more gates), allowing the zerg to more readily recover from his early-game gamble.

Don't mean to sound like I know it better than you, you're higher than me after all. However, the roach rush is pretty much all in, if you hold it you're so far ahead you don't even need to punish him because he already is. Forge is less risky in this situation and it's also extremely helpfull in surviving early pool rushes. What I'd do is expand right after I beat his roach push, then go 6 gate timing push after +1 dmg finishes, 14 forge just feels a lot more safe, I can hardly imagine him surviving this after his semi-allin earlier . This is all my opinion of course, but is it really that important to counter attack after it?
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