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[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 41

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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PieShopPwner
Profile Joined June 2010
United States75 Posts
February 28 2011 06:49 GMT
#801
Build is easy to stop, wall off, build a forge and a couple cannons, build a stargate, hold off attack get a couple void rays and win. hardest part is scouting it. After I figured this out, i have not lost to this build.
reptile
Profile Joined July 2010
United States210 Posts
February 28 2011 07:05 GMT
#802
Seriously, thank you so much for posting this. I just beat a #3 diamond ranked protoss with this build. I fixed it up a bit compared to what that kid did. But this build works very nice. Overlord placement is so important. He even had 6 zealots and 2 stalkers when I did my timing attack, and I won with ease, thanks to reinforcing lings. This build works very well due to the fact your lings are what's tanking the damage, meanwhile your roaches take down the gateway units and push you're able to out mass your opponent due to the strong one base.
"When the game is over, the King and the Pawn go back in the same box."
zab329
Profile Joined January 2011
United States18 Posts
February 28 2011 07:22 GMT
#803
On February 28 2011 11:41 Acridice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2011 10:32 zab329 wrote:
Gonna be honest I'm one of those guys who didn't bother reading everyone's posts but the OP. If this is since irrelevant please ignore over flame.

My defense of the 3 roach push a few seconds later than yours because of rush distance

[image loading]

Break down:

1. Cut probe production as soon as I see roach.
2. Chrono all used on stalkers none on warpgate
3. Be ready to fully wall in with pylon if you think you're in trouble(more necessary on shorter rush distance maps)
4. 3 gates, I know robo is your first reaction when you see roach warren, but you wont have the time or funds for an immortal in time.
5. instead of your normal 2 gate tech, go 3 gate.
6. Transistion into 4 gate, easy win as Zerg has no choice but to try and expand already down in probe count.

Btw: This is Cheese, this is all in. Zerg can not effectively transition out of this, ever. If it's scouted it is easily countered for the win. If it takes you by surprise you're gonna be fucked.

Zboss 2.9k Diamond.



Yo, no offense man, but this was a poor game for both sides. You let the zerg take your gas, and then had a pretty much worthless FF while you let him snipe your sentry. You then didn't do ure warpgates for a good 30s after the research was done. You could have killed those 3 roaches without losing a single unit. Then on the zerg's side the rush was horrible, he didn't even have his zerglings with him and just threw away his 3 roaches for no reason, not to mention he didn't have speedlings.


Not gonna tell you I'm pro but to respond:

1. When I saw roach warren I cut probe production and get 3-gate, that's my response. My mistake wasn't letting zerg get the gas, but taking it after, I don't remember why I did that.

2. True my FF was oddly timed and the sentry did get sniped.
- I missed clicked my sentry trying to draw it back, by the time I clicked it it was about to die, I threw down a ff to use it's energy. And the FF saved the lings from entering my base = successful? Misclicks suck we've all been there.

3. And my warpgates were a little late true, but the tech finished as the attack was happening, I'm not pro so I was busy(trying to micro), wasn't a huge deal, I was able to stop the attack b/c of chronoboosting units before hand.

4. He had speedlings... so yeah.

5. His zerglings came right when they were suppose to after the roaches broke the seal. The problem was I had more units that were "suppose" to be there b/c I was chronoboosting them out of 2 and then a 3rd gateway = how I am demonstrating the defense to the strat..

Conclusion: Yes there were a few minor details that were off on both our parts. That's why I am probably in 2.9k diamond instead of masters. But this is still IMO a good example of defending the 3 roach attack. In masters league BOTH players would have cleaner play, but the result would be the same.
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
February 28 2011 08:28 GMT
#804
On February 28 2011 15:28 JerKy wrote:
According to Minigun, you can't stop this rush unless you wall off completely, so scouting + walling off are essential components of stopping this rush


If you scout the full wall off (Seems to be done with 2 Gates and the Cyber) + Chronos on the Gateways, it should be quite visible to your spotting OL. If you scout this move after starting the Roach Warren but before committing to the production of attack units minus the first 2 lings, you should be able to transition into a macro build and have additional time to macro up a defense in the face of a push since you can keep an eye out on his wall with the spotting overlord to determine his push timing since you can see him start tearing down one of the wall in buildings.
zergrushkekeke
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia241 Posts
February 28 2011 10:14 GMT
#805
Just watched this replay again, so fun :D

I can throw out this build as nicely as wzp can now i reckon and will always keep it in mind vs a protoss. So good against such a common protoss build.

The drawbacks are pretty clear though, at the time the roaches get there you are 14 drones to 24 probes, you have to do damage.
KEKEKE
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 10:25:44
February 28 2011 10:25 GMT
#806
Stopping this pretty easily, when I spot it I just drop an earlier second gate (around 24-25 food), then I just chronoboost sentires non stop, you should be able to hold easily if you can keep the ramp force fielded.

But I have no idea what to do with the excess minerals, since you are making Sentries non-stop, by the time you hit the magic number of 6 sentries, your minerals end up jumping to 800+ easily, but your low on gas though
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
February 28 2011 10:38 GMT
#807
Someone did this to me in zvz against a fast expand (with 4 spine crawlers and 2 queens to block the ramp); suddenly I don't like this build that much anymore...
Attica
Profile Joined February 2010
United States277 Posts
February 28 2011 11:14 GMT
#808
You could wall it off with a forge instead of a pylon. Then out range the roach/lings with ur sentries while you buy yourself sometime. Until the cannons are up.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
February 28 2011 12:24 GMT
#809
I wonder if the Z build can be refined a bit more by going 11 pool --> earlier zergling to deny scouting probe like the 7 RR, and drop the roach warren once probe is dead, and then pulling guys off gas after to support lings. It's very tricky to scout in that case and the P needs to send a 2nd probe in a bit later to see the lack of hatchery and tons of units moving out to respond properly.
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
February 28 2011 14:25 GMT
#810
On February 28 2011 19:25 Dommk wrote:
Stopping this pretty easily, when I spot it I just drop an earlier second gate (around 24-25 food), then I just chronoboost sentires non stop, you should be able to hold easily if you can keep the ramp force fielded.

But I have no idea what to do with the excess minerals, since you are making Sentries non-stop, by the time you hit the magic number of 6 sentries, your minerals end up jumping to 800+ easily, but your low on gas though


stalkers
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 14:31:51
February 28 2011 14:31 GMT
#811
I countered this build versus a 3600 masters zerg with a 3 gate standard opening with decent pylon/gateway placement (after messing up my initial wall) on Mr Bitter's stream last night.

Don't know what all the fuss is about, just cut workers to get all 3 gates out faster - no need for a forge.
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
February 28 2011 15:20 GMT
#812
On February 28 2011 23:31 Antimage wrote:
I countered this build versus a 3600 masters zerg with a 3 gate standard opening with decent pylon/gateway placement (after messing up my initial wall) on Mr Bitter's stream last night.

Don't know what all the fuss is about, just cut workers to get all 3 gates out faster - no need for a forge.


Did you make a complete wall? If so, did you just use a pylon to complete the wall? I have a real problem with completely walling off with a second gateay. I dunno, I guess you could just transition to a blink all-in if you do that, but I'd still be more comfortable with just walling with a pylon.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
February 28 2011 15:22 GMT
#813
No i did not make a complete wall. I lost my first 2 units but I made 2 sentries to FF while pulling probes. I warped in 3 zealots and used my probes to clean up with the help of my building placement.
DoctorPhil
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands168 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 18:19:12
February 28 2011 18:14 GMT
#814
What's wrong with building a forge? Even if he doesn't do this strat, you're going to need it to defend a potential expo and get upgrades anyway.
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
February 28 2011 19:31 GMT
#815
If you build a forge then you'll miss out on a potential counter-attack (which you will have a chance to do with more gates), allowing the zerg to more readily recover from his early-game gamble.
milfhunter
Profile Joined February 2011
45 Posts
March 01 2011 01:05 GMT
#816
Hi Antimage! I am really sorry this is a bit off topic but do you usually 3 gate anyway? Also do you still opening void ray every game? What is your standard build these days?
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
March 01 2011 01:17 GMT
#817
If you're 3 gating with sentries, then your safe, because you get earlier gateways and can pull out a round of units before warpgate
Just make sure that you chrono first round of units out instead of warpgate like your normally would

If your 4 gating, youre OK if you scout/block with gateway and its a hardcore 4 gate with max
chronoboost on warpgates

Basically, if you wanna beat a clean, well executed build order, you need a clean well executed build order yourself
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
March 01 2011 01:24 GMT
#818
On March 01 2011 10:05 milfhunter wrote:
Hi Antimage! I am really sorry this is a bit off topic but do you usually 3 gate anyway? Also do you still opening void ray every game? What is your standard build these days?


When I was on his stream, I asked him this. He doesn't use the void ray expand anymore, but he does use the 3 gate sentry expo (iirc).
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 02:21:35
March 01 2011 01:52 GMT
#819
I just played like 15 custom games against a comp to figure out the correct timings to hold this push. I made the assumption that the 3roaches get to your base at 5:00 even. I chrono boosted my warpgate tech all the way through while making 2 sentries out of my first gate. Then I have one more chrono boost for the tail end of the second sentry which I use on the gateway itself which hustles out your 2nd sentry in time for another FF and also brings your warpgate up quicker. With this build, I was able to keep the ramp with a permanent FF on it starting from 5 Mins. I'll upload replay.


Here is the replay: Counter 3 Roach Rush with 3 gate
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
milfhunter
Profile Joined February 2011
45 Posts
March 01 2011 05:00 GMT
#820
On March 01 2011 10:24 iChau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2011 10:05 milfhunter wrote:
Hi Antimage! I am really sorry this is a bit off topic but do you usually 3 gate anyway? Also do you still opening void ray every game? What is your standard build these days?


When I was on his stream, I asked him this. He doesn't use the void ray expand anymore, but he does use the 3 gate sentry expo (iirc).


Yes I actually did see that on his game, thats why I wanted to ask. it just feels like at the low master level, 3 gate expo will make you so behind because its so easy for the Z to take a 3rd, and your sentry zealots certainlly isn't going to be able to put ANY sort of pressure on the Z at all without risking loosing everything you got.

Even with perfect forcefields, mid map its just so suicidal when there is speedlings running around.

IChau what do you like opening with? Do you guys reckon a 15 nexus will be able to hold off 3roach speedlings?
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