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So when he came, i FF the bottom of the ramp. Your warpgates should be finishing just as he is getting there.
The zerg you were playing against did this build wrong then (especially considering it was SoW). The whole point is that it arrives before warpgate, that's the beauty of it and why it's so hard to stop. One FF is not nearly enough time.
I tried this build under the assumption that I'd lose, and said I would stop doing it after the first loss. All-in rush builds make me feel guilty. Unfortunately I'm still doing it because it hasn't lost once. No one has tried walling in with stalkers, that probably will be my first loss. Protoss is a free win on ladder right now. The closest thing to a loss was actually against a forge FE, but I actually got in and killed off the toss's main so it went into a "normal" longer game.
2800-3000 Master.
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This is cheese Travis, so if you complete a wall off with a forge and make a cannon or two, hes going to be behind.
From there, just do a timing attack when he tries to drone back up.
But I'm not downplaying the fact that this is hard to stop, because it is.
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Maybe it is just me but I have been crushing all these roach/ling attacks all day. I do regular 3 gate, but when I see the Warren I stop the 3rd gate and make a forge, you only need one cannon to defend against it...
If the Zerg contains me I just get +1/+1 and bust out with Immortals :S, Zerg is super behind at that point
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Noob.. ZvP is imba for Protoss. Cry more.
User was warned for this post
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here is some very nice defend from 3 roach after opening 2 gate: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/137864-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
didntt seem like the canon is even needed, ofc if the initial 3 roaches didnt get traped on ramp by mismicro... instead killing zealots from side thanks to overlord vision, canon would probably help a lot then.
so you can start 2 gate for pressure in case of early expand, while still beeing perfectly safe from 3 roach ling by just puting cyber after scouting warren and walling off
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I tried the advice in the OP for fending this off and it seems to work brilliantly. You scout the roach warren right as your cybercore goes down then wall off with a second gate, make a second gas, and then chrono out stalkers after your first sentry. The attack hits around when you have 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and 2 stalkers close to done. When the stalkers pop it is pretty easy to handle, make sure you just keep pumping them out and add a third gateway and resume probe production as soon as you can handle it.
My question is now how to follow through for the win. Obvious follow throughs are 4 gate, though you need to destroy one of your wall in gates. I tried rushing for blink and pumping stalkers out of 3-4 gates and attacking soon after blink was done. I won the game but against a better zerg I think I would have been in some trouble, or at least gone into a longer game. He did have hydras and said that he thinks he should have rushed hydra a bit sooner to defend.
BTW for everyone that has commented in this thread or any other with "here's what I think" your advice is next to useless, please just go practice whatever you are commenting on to see how it feels and then report back. So annoying having to sift through hundreds of posts of 95% misguided comments to find the people who have actually been trying the builds.
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Drudging up an aging thread, but I was wondering what initial building placement should be. The norm against Zerg would be a Gate/Core block with a 1 tile space for a Zealot to block. Is there a safe opener that allows one to block off the 3roach/speedling build, or is the 1 tile space even necessary anymore? There are several maps where an early pool guarantees the lings getting into your base before the Zealot comes out, or is my thought process wrong.
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On February 19 2011 12:38 Supah wrote:
Drudging up an aging thread, but I was wondering what initial building placement should be. The norm against Zerg would be a Gate/Core block with a 1 tile space for a Zealot to block. Is there a safe opener that allows one to block off the 3roach/speedling build, or is the 1 tile space even necessary anymore? There are several maps where an early pool guarantees the lings getting into your base before the Zealot comes out, or is my thought process wrong.
I actually just made a guide addressing this. Let me know your thoughts.
[G] A Smarter Protoss Wall-In?
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me defending this 3 roach ling rush , that comes at my ramp at 5.00 on close posi metalopolis
check it out :
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-190944.jpg)
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If you do a properly executed 1 gas 4 gate, you can get out 1 zeal, 1 stalker, 1 sentry, and then have warpgates done just as your first FF runs out on anymap except for steppes
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Gonna be honest I'm one of those guys who didn't bother reading everyone's posts but the OP. If this is since irrelevant please ignore over flame.
My defense of the 3 roach push a few seconds later than yours because of rush distance
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-192547.jpg)
Break down:
1. Cut probe production as soon as I see roach.
2. Chrono all used on stalkers none on warpgate
3. Be ready to fully wall in with pylon if you think you're in trouble(more necessary on shorter rush distance maps)
4. 3 gates, I know robo is your first reaction when you see roach warren, but you wont have the time or funds for an immortal in time.
5. instead of your normal 2 gate tech, go 3 gate.
6. Transistion into 4 gate, easy win as Zerg has no choice but to try and expand already down in probe count.
Btw: This is Cheese, this is all in. Zerg can not effectively transition out of this, ever. If it's scouted it is easily countered for the win. If it takes you by surprise you're gonna be fucked.
Zboss 2.9k Diamond.
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On February 28 2011 10:32 zab329 wrote:Gonna be honest I'm one of those guys who didn't bother reading everyone's posts but the OP. If this is since irrelevant please ignore over flame. My defense of the 3 roach push a few seconds later than yours because of rush distance Break down: 1. Cut probe production as soon as I see roach. 2. Chrono all used on stalkers none on warpgate 3. Be ready to fully wall in with pylon if you think you're in trouble(more necessary on shorter rush distance maps) 4. 3 gates, I know robo is your first reaction when you see roach warren, but you wont have the time or funds for an immortal in time. 5. instead of your normal 2 gate tech, go 3 gate. 6. Transistion into 4 gate, easy win as Zerg has no choice but to try and expand already down in probe count. Btw: This is Cheese, this is all in. Zerg can not effectively transition out of this, ever. If it's scouted it is easily countered for the win. If it takes you by surprise you're gonna be fucked. Zboss 2.9k Diamond.
Yo, no offense man, but this was a poor game for both sides. You let the zerg take your gas, and then had a pretty much worthless FF while you let him snipe your sentry. You then didn't do ure warpgates for a good 30s after the research was done. You could have killed those 3 roaches without losing a single unit. Then on the zerg's side the rush was horrible, he didn't even have his zerglings with him and just threw away his 3 roaches for no reason, not to mention he didn't have speedlings.
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On February 21 2011 16:58 turbopasca1 wrote:me defending this 3 roach ling rush , that comes at my ramp at 5.00 on close posi metalopolis check it out :
I think it was a good defense, but I'm also curious how you transition into the win, especially after this defense. You have to kill a whole gateway when you're ready to expand or push. I think a 2 gas sentry stalker defense with a pylon block is more appropriate. Once again though, how do you guys recommend transitioning into the win? Should you just expand and get more ahead? Or do some sort of 3 gate robo 1 base?
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Im only diamond but i would recommend to chrono your gateways instead of warpgate tech and getting a few more sentrys b4 he hits and this buys you time to get troops out
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On February 28 2011 11:51 Acridice wrote:
I think it was a good defense, but I'm also curious how you transition into the win, especially after this defense. You have to kill a whole gateway when you're ready to expand or push. I think a 2 gas sentry stalker defense with a pylon block is more appropriate. Once again though, how do you guys recommend transitioning into the win? Should you just expand and get more ahead? Or do some sort of 3 gate robo 1 base?
at the time the attack hits it's going to be 25 to 14 supply, and he has a choice to drone or produce income, but it's on one base. Zerg's only chance is to expand, while you've been running on a strong 1 base for a very long time now and you can just roll them pretty safely on 1 base by adding a 4th gate or a robo.
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The 3RR + speedling rush can be stopped; check the OP for one good option (although there's several things you can do to stop it; another common response I've seen is getting a single cannon by your ramp once your probe scouts the roach warren; then wall + FF to victory).
After Protoss stops the rush, it's practically auto-win since their probe saturation is miles ahead of the Zerg, making their economy way stronger. Protoss can either all-in 4-gate and crush the Zerg outright, or expand safely and pressure the Zerg into making crawlers to defend their expo and waste even more drones/economy.
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I just look for a roach warren if he didnt expand and then put down a forge, then chorno boost out 2 lots (keep making probes) then put 2 cannnon on the ramp
ez ez counter
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Looking at the strategy, because he's floating the OL around, couldn't he send a second OL over to do an OL Sac around the 3-4 minute mark to see if it is indeed safe to commit with the build or if it would be more worthwhile to start droning up? The counters for this build seem to include a lot of "Cut probe production" so while the Protoss player is still probing up, the zerg could drone up and throw down an expansion. Hell, even using the spotting Overlord to scout the wall a little should give you good info on whether or not to commit to the 3 Roaches + Slings or to morph Lair and powerdrone/expand.
While it is "All in" the moment they start morphing the Mass SLings + 3 Roaches, he still has options even after throwing down the Roach Warren.
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According to Minigun, you can't stop this rush unless you wall off completely, so scouting + walling off are essential components of stopping this rush
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EPT
