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On February 05 2011 12:55 WoolySheep wrote:
I beat this today on the ladder without knowing what it was. If a zerg does not take an expo, I find it more than likely that they are allin-ing and i just go for 2 gate stargate or 3 gate. forcefields work nicely on the ramp as well.
this is why I doubt this build will work well against pro level Toss
the latest standard timing for a Zerg expo in PvZ is a little before the 4 minute mark. so even if a Zerg tries to hide a Roach Warren in some corner of the map, a Toss should be suspecting cheese or some type of aggressive opening if they don't see an expo building by the 4 minute mark.
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Just another build... get over it!
You lost and couldn't figure out why your greedy build wasn't able to hold off an all-in.
As it was said before, toss already solved this.
The game is still new let's all learn together and hold the QQ 
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is this on LA server traviz? i know wzp
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On February 05 2011 04:38 resilve wrote:Im no great player, but faced this 3 times today now (before reading this thread >_>), last time I knew what to look for and scouted it the second the roach warren was dropped. It was cross-positions LT - cant think of many longer ground distances too... Still got completely rimmed when I tried to transition from a 13gate->14gas->15core into flat out defence. I dropped 2 additional gates after the first zealot, cut all probes, and chrono'd out stalkers and zealots. It didnt go well. Although the person doing the rush was higher rated than me. Im not really understanding how I could get more units out in a faster time as a response to this, and so I am thinking the only guarenteed way to hold it is cannons? Replay: http://htlr.org/chelios-denvySecond link to same replay: http://www.filefront.com/17894595/RR2.SC2Replay
I looked at this replay. You had really bad micro, your stalkers kept attacking lings instead of roaches, and you pulled your probes when it was already over.
Also one sentry would have worked much better in this situation.
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i faced this rush for the first time yesterday. When i saw the roach warren dropped down immediately, i had a deja vu moment, hey didn't i read this strat somewhere?
The timing is really sick. Roaches to snipe the zealot blocking the ramp, and speedlings to run in immediately.
I had like 1 zealot 1 stalker, 1 sentry on the way and warpgate research halfway done when i spotted the roaches coming in shakuras horizontal positions.
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my own standard pvz opening for shortish rush maps seems to deal with this ok:
constant probe production
9p
12g
~15g
pylon
scout his nat w/ 1st zealot
drop 1 gas after starting 3rd zealot
if he didn't expo, drop core and another gate, and start mining gas immediately, then pump a round of zealots before starting on stalkers and warp research
if he expoed, CB more zealots to force units and/or just kill his expo, drop core and another gate as you can afford it while constantly making probes/zealots.
When warp research finishes, push and expo follow up with like 5gate robo(obs and immortals), then start teching HT/DT
on long rush maps i tend to FFE instead.
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Are there any trigger-happy banlings who specifically focus on the strategy forums? If not it needs to happen.
It would probably be a tedious and thankless job, but someone must be willing to do it. I'm not talking about posts with bad strategy either since I'm not so great myself, but there are tens of posts in this thread which are just plain trolling/idiocy.
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the 5 zealot rush does ok against this
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When I do a 3gate expand i usually put my extra gates up around 4:30 and this rush seems to hit at around 5:20 depending on how well it was executed. What i like to do is make a forge and a gate and do a 2gate forge expand instead of a 3gate expand if i see that Z has not secured his natural at that point. The forge finishes at around 5:15 and then you put up 2-3 cannons and FF your ramp to hold off. This usually works against roach rushes but how do you guys think it would work against this rush? I wish i could post a replay but i don't have SC2 installed on this computer. It is sort of comparable to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152940
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Just played wzp and he used this cheese. It was my first try against the build, and I defended okay, but there were a lot of micro spots I could have improved upon. I wasted my 1 forcefield for no reason, and I should have walled completely off earlier. Still, I think you could defend pretty easily with zealot/stalker/probe off of 3 gates if you just wall off completely to buy yourself a little extra time.
He told me he screwed up the build tho, so maybe I just had an easy go against it. His attack did manage to kill enough probes to leave the game even, but I think with an earlier wall-off and better judgement about when to use my 1 forcefield, I would have escaped with a lot less damage.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-186692.jpg)
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Hi
Did some testing today with a mate.
I held the push 1 out of 10 tries or so testing on steppes and caverns.
Tried the following builds:
A:12gate chronoboost on gateway to put zealot preasure. adding a second gate before cyber.
No success, i get free lings. But after that his army can take out my zealots i manage to get 3 down there 1 first then 2 together. his roach ling finish me off and my best ben from here is to forcefield to buy time enough to get the 4 gate up, timing seems to not work though, he's in my base before it finishes.
B:standart 4 gate
I get utterly crushed with 2 zealots out 4 gate finishes but by then he's through my wall and its a micro battle with me on the loosing side as im constantly overpowered in numbers.
C: no wall 4 gate
I get crushed. same as above.
D: 3gate expand build with zealot sentries. Same as above, i end up panic throwing down a fourth gate late, because i cant hold it off.
Things i want to test, total wall off with extra gateway or forge, that is thrown down by the time the attack hits.. The idea is to emulate a real game, since even if you scout the roach warren your not sure this is the attack thats comming. See if this can buy me enough time to get enough to defend, or posibly get a cannon down without rushing to the cannon blind.
/Krev
EDIT: when i held he missed a queen spit.
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UPDATE:
someone wanted to know how to beat it
well, the best way to beat this by far (that i've found, im sure there's other ways but i really think this is the best way to maintain a huge advantage) is to
1.) scout the timing. scout for roach warren just after pool, keep probe scouting zerg base just until lings are coming out
2.) make a 2nd gateway to complete ur wall. ur wall should be 2gateways and a cyber
3.) make a sentry after zealot like normal, but then start chronoboosting stalkers out while getting warpgate tech
4.) use ur forcefield to delay while u get some more stalkers out
thanks for everyone's advice!
I definitely agree that this is one of the best responses to this rush but I prefer finishing my wall off with a pylon. Using a Gateway is very safe but depending on the rush distances I think you can get away with a pylon. I've found that the pylon will fall right around the time I have enough units to defend. If it goes down early, I'll have another force field to seal the gap a delay for my warp in.
This rush is scary! If you make a blunder (supply block yourself or what not), your are 100% screwed. The timings are narrow, but you can hold it.
Edit: Glad to see you edited the post title.
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On February 02 2011 13:08 travis wrote:this is the 3rd time i've played this guy. i even knew this was coming. yes of course i could get a forge and some cannons but let's be honest, if u have to blindly forge and put cannons on top of ur ramp there is something wrong with the matchup. I have never cried imbalance in pvz before because I never thought the matchup was imbalanced, but.. what the hell, come on. could a player better than myself (3200 master) please tell me what im supposed to do? hell, could any player please tell me what to do to stop this? http://www.2shared.com/file/FXZMev4q/how_do_i_beat_this_pvz.htmlUPDATE: someone wanted to know how to beat it well, the best way to beat this by far (that i've found, im sure there's other ways but i really think this is the best way to maintain a huge advantage) is to 1.) scout the timing. scout for roach warren just after pool, keep probe scouting zerg base just until lings are coming out 2.) make a 2nd gateway to complete ur wall. ur wall should be 2gateways and a cyber 3.) make a sentry after zealot like normal, but then start chronoboosting stalkers out while getting warpgate tech 4.) use ur forcefield to delay while u get some more stalkers out thanks for everyone's advice!
I'm just curious...you see that he's going all in, he's cut drones severely and he isn't expanding....but you stick with the one gateway and continue to pump probes.
I get your idea behind the sentries....you clearly can't do it in time but you try anyways.
For starters, build your pilon in the middle of your upper ramp so if you see this all in you can do a wall in. Its a small change you can make that greatly improves your odds of survival.
If you do a gateway gas gateway core, save 2 or 3 chrono's yada yada yada..... I can have 4 stalkers out behind a wall by 4:58 game time. All this while having 19 probes vs his 14 drones.
This attack hit you at 5:15.
The roaches are what will eat your pilon, so if you target fire them down with the stalkers you very well could hold it off without him being able to get the pylon down.
If he does get it to the point where its almost down, this wall configuration should allow you to place an emergency blocking pilon behind the first pylon. I was able to do it on metal 5'oclock position, but haven't tried on the other sides.
Did this over 3 practice games so I'm sure it could be refined more. You'd obviously need to scout early, or do the 2 stalker opener blind (which isn't a total fail). You could also reasonably delay the 2nd gateway until later when you would of scouted it for sure...in that case you're likely to only have 3 stalks out by the time the attack hits, with the 4th on the way.
Would love for better players than me to test this out, as I don't have a solid zerg partner to try it with.
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This build doesn't work well against a good Toss, my friend got the hang of how to hold it off on his second game, and it wasn't even close in my second game at that and i had the timing even better second time and positions were close on metalopolis.
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Hey guys, i just got owned today by the noob 5 minute zerg rush.
metalopolis
In this replay i messed up my force fields, but i this is my build order when i found out what build this guy is doing..
Xel'naga
Here is another replay i lost today... I lost 3 games today to this build and i like to know how to adjust my build after scouting it.
Thnx for input!
(2.5k point diamond protoss)
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Friend of mine just figured out kinda how to stop this build:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/136011-1v1-protoss-zerg-steppes-of-war
Try using a pylon to wall yourself in. Lings won't be able to break it and neither will roaches. Just pop out a few stalkers and it's GG for zerg as they will only have 14-15 drones to try and survive with.
He scouted the early roaches so skipped the zealot and dropped right into stalker first and 2 gate stalker squished this build.
This is not a perfect solution just giving some food for thought
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The counter to this is getting 1 or 2 early sentries and slamming down 2 gates, and using a pylon to completely wall of to buy time. If played correctly, your warp gate should finish in time and save you. This happened to me 4 times today, I held it off 3 times. After you fend it off, some will try to catch up by expoing and some by just making roaches and doing damage. Follow up with a 4 gate push and gg.
Also Make sure to have a probe by the natural, if by 20~ food there is no expo, you should brace yourself.
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This build just happened to me today. SO ANNOYING X_X
PvZ just got even worst. -_-
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This Build is AMAZING and it fits in so perfectly, but there is a easy ways to scout this as a protoss player
Stopped Drone production at 15 (major giveaway of an all in) you dont even have to wait for roach warren to go down to realize this, but you should still hang around to make sure.
So do what you need to do since i only play zerg i cant help you in defending it, but if you know this all in is coming then good luck.
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EPT
