EPTif u wanna beat a master protoss with this build u dont need way more advice than the opening BO, took me a while to undestand what i was really doing there. it seems easy but keep in mind that if u get to the other player 5 seconds later you are gone, i wouldnt recoment trying this in ladder unless you know the step by step
[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 36
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wzp
Mexico9 Posts
if u wanna beat a master protoss with this build u dont need way more advice than the opening BO, took me a while to undestand what i was really doing there. it seems easy but keep in mind that if u get to the other player 5 seconds later you are gone, i wouldnt recoment trying this in ladder unless you know the step by step | ||
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JeanLuc
Canada377 Posts
On February 04 2011 14:41 wzp wrote: should i open a thread about how to do this build? if u wanna beat a master protoss with this build u dont need way more advice than the opening BO, took me a while to undestand what i was really doing there. it seems easy but keep in mind that if u get to the other player 5 seconds later you are gone, i wouldnt recoment trying this in ladder unless you know the step by step if it would give extra information not apparent from a viewing of OP's replay, then sureeee | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
9 pylon sent to scout- 13 gateway- at this time my scout got to his base and saw the spawning pool go down so at 15 i built a second gateway 16 pylon and at 18 built a zealot chrono boosting it out and then my other gateway completed so i began building a second zealot from it and a third zealot from my first gateway and chronoboosted it out as well- when the 3 zealots were done i sent them to attack- during this time i was running my probe around trying to scout as much as i could and never scouted the roach warren but did notice he had no expansion up- so i dropped a forge and cyber core and assimilator (don't remember the timings on that)- but the key thing i think is the 3 zealots take just enough time to kill off with the roaches with proper micro that it allows you to get a sentry out and 2-3 cannons +2-4 gateways depending on how you do it | ||
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takajoebacca
United States35 Posts
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asmo.0
Norway318 Posts
On February 04 2011 14:41 wzp wrote: should i open a thread about how to do this build? if u wanna beat a master protoss with this build u dont need way more advice than the opening BO, took me a while to undestand what i was really doing there. it seems easy but keep in mind that if u get to the other player 5 seconds later you are gone, i wouldnt recoment trying this in ladder unless you know the step by step I'm not sure if its that necessary, as I believe this is the easiest rush to pull off I've ever seen... To check travis' claim, I watched the replay once and tested ladder (low masters division). Still 8-0 and no one has held the initial rush, regardless of map (shakuras it gets there at least 5sek later than close pos metalopolis, and yet still as effective.). | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On February 04 2011 07:50 PJA wrote: Seems excessive to send 2 probes just to scout for an uncommon roach all-in. You'd probably lose less econ by placing the 2nd+3rd gates before the 3rd pylon, and even if they bust up the ramp initially, you'll be able to reinforce more quickly and with more units than the zerg. Lol are you fucking kidding me? Have you read my other posts? Of course you only send a second drone if you notice that he delays his third overlord. Its probably still possible to hold this without cannons, but i was just pointing out that even if IT ISNT its still possible to hold this without blindly investing into 2 cannons or whatever amount you need. anyway im done with this, this thread really shows how terrible the strategy forum is right now. | ||
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FastApologies
Brazil12 Posts
The basic(as seen on broodwar) 2 gate build (on the main without proxy), would not break this? | ||
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FastApologies
Brazil12 Posts
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badday
6 Posts
when you see the roach warren just throw down a 2nd gate in your opening and leave your zealot outside and you will be fine. chrono boost 1 stalker out and then sentry or even a 2nd stalker. I tried this a few times with success. forge would also work. (2,7 master league) edit: I will try to get a replay up soon | ||
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
On February 04 2011 22:18 FastApologies wrote: Still waiting for counters... It's been mentioned a few times, I've tried it, and it works: 1) Keep your probe in their base as long as you can, if you see them drop a roach warren, drop your own forge. (If they wait for a ling to chase you out the rush is 24 seconds later and totally worthless) -Also you can see whether or not they're getting ling speed (an important part of the build). 2) Chronoboost your gateway to squeeze everything out (I go zealot, 2 sentries, then stalkers (instead of the 3rd sentry) and try to see zerg moving out, if he does, drop 1 cannon and keep chronoboosting your gateway, you're miles ahead if you survive. 3) If he pulls back research +1 at the forge, and go for a 4-gate +1 timing attack and win the game. - If he attacks into you just make sure gateways 2 and 3 are on the way and delay as much as possible and warp in stalkers and/or zealots and win the game. | ||
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
On February 04 2011 18:43 DarKFoRcE wrote: Lol are you fucking kidding me? Have you read my other posts? Of course you only send a second drone if you notice that he delays his third overlord. Its probably still possible to hold this without cannons, but i was just pointing out that even if IT ISNT its still possible to hold this without blindly investing into 2 cannons or whatever amount you need. anyway im done with this, this thread really shows how terrible the strategy forum is right now. Also I think trying this rush while waiting for 2 lings to drop the RW after skipping the OL is not viable, takes 24 seconds for lings to build, that's an eternity to delay any rush build. | ||
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[Nosferatu]
United States9 Posts
On February 04 2011 22:56 MoreFaSho wrote: It's been mentioned a few times, I've tried it, and it works: 1) Keep your probe in their base as long as you can, if you see them drop a roach warren, drop your own forge. (If they wait for a ling to chase you out the rush is 24 seconds later and totally worthless) -Also you can see whether or not they're getting ling speed (an important part of the build). 2) Chronoboost your gateway to squeeze everything out (I go zealot, 2 sentries, then stalkers (instead of the 3rd sentry) and try to see zerg moving out, if he does, drop 1 cannon and keep chronoboosting your gateway, you're miles ahead if you survive. 3) If he pulls back research +1 at the forge, and go for a 4-gate +1 timing attack and win the game. - If he attacks into you just make sure gateways 2 and 3 are on the way and delay as much as possible and warp in stalkers and/or zealots and win the game. If I'm zerg I will just chase your probe out of sight then cancel the warren and build as normal. I think what is great about this rush strat is how easily it can transition to your first natural or any other build you want to do. As zerg I try to force toss to build a certain way and if I can pull off the rush then great but if not then I can still make you think I'm going to rush and force you to contain yourself while i get my first expo. You can try to scout it but I will at the very least have a couple lings at my ramp to prevent that plus a queen in back. I also try to hide my warren as far back as possible. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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FastApologies
Brazil12 Posts
my most mistake were: forget to add larvas asap queen is done. | ||
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dangr
Germany7 Posts
my most mistake were: forget to add larvas asap queen is done. Well... if you don't use your Queen properly early game, you are dead no matter what build!  Guess your not that experienced with Zerg? No offense ... | ||
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Liquorshot_852
Korea (South)72 Posts
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badday
6 Posts
thats how I beat it on steppes. I taught my friend (the zerg) how to do it so he may not execute it optimal. should he wait for more lings before engagement? the only thing I do different than others I've seen is the zealot-stalker-stalker and some sim city. I've found that after walling in it's better to max damage output than to opt for force fields. <edit> I did the one mistake this time to do the 2nd gate before 1st stalker. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
Generally just build units off 3 gates, build an extra gateway to make another 1 whole entrance farther back to keep him from sniping with roaches and just harass with stalkers block with zeals. CB mostly on gateways but I'd spend 1 on warp because it makes your production cycles fit warpgate finishing better imo. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On February 05 2011 01:44 Lobber wrote: Played against it 3 times and won 2, the one time I lost was because I tried to gas first blink rush and basically had no units and my scout was killed by workers early Generally just build units off 3 gates, build an extra gateway to make another 1 whole entrance farther back to keep him from sniping with roaches and just harass with stalkers block with zeals. CB mostly on gateways but I'd spend 1 on warp because it makes your production cycles fit warpgate finishing better imo. The build when executed properly comes about half a minute before a fairly fast warpgate timing. Your warpgates should not be complete if they are doing the proper rush. Im sure this is being done at all levels with varying degrees of execution. Regardless of the level of execution, the OP updated the original post to include the most valuable information from the thread about how to beat the build without a forge. A forge would make things much easier if you are 100% sure they built units and didnt do a fake out. If you can ascertain they decided to drone instead, you can use that forge for a faster upgrade for a timed attack. I think where we're at now is, how does the game play out if they just drone up instead of attacking? How far ahead does it put them if at all? I think that will take time to answer, but like I said, he updated the original post with some band-aid solutions. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On February 04 2011 18:43 DarKFoRcE wrote: Srsly. When a top-notch progamer gives you advice on how to deal with a build on the strat forums, FUCKING LISTEN instead of trying to argue with him.anyway im done with this, this thread really shows how terrible the strategy forum is right now. It's these ignorant theorycrafting arguments in the strat forums that make pros not want to post here and help the rest of us. Why should they if whenever they do post people jump down their throats with purely speculative arguments? /rant | ||
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