EPT[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 37
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ShindyK2
Korea (South)19 Posts
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CptnObvious
United States54 Posts
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RoboSnail
United States59 Posts
Lol This is so true look at all the protoss desperately trying to deal with a simple all in, when we zergs deal with these types of allins from T and P 4 out of 5 matches. Try not being so greedy along with scoutting and cutting some probes like everyone else when faced with an allin. | ||
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ShindyK2
Korea (South)19 Posts
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
It was cross-positions LT - cant think of many longer ground distances too... Still got completely rimmed when I tried to transition from a 13gate->14gas->15core into flat out defence. I dropped 2 additional gates after the first zealot, cut all probes, and chrono'd out stalkers and zealots. It didnt go well. Although the person doing the rush was higher rated than me. Im not really understanding how I could get more units out in a faster time as a response to this, and so I am thinking the only guarenteed way to hold it is cannons? Replay: http://htlr.org/chelios-denvy Second link to same replay: http://www.filefront.com/17894595/RR2.SC2Replay | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Lol This is so true look at all the protoss desperately trying to deal with a simple all in, when we zergs deal with these types of allins from T and P 4 out of 5 matches. Try not being so greedy along with scoutting and cutting some probes like everyone else when faced with an allin. Uhh what? PvP is basically 4gate every game and all the PvTs I've been playing on ladder has been one base allins from Terran. PvZ is the only matchup where we usually don't see allins. Toss has to deal with allins too. Please stop being so arrogant. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
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MorNin
United States443 Posts
 Thanks for the input, ill be trying some of the suggestions | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8913 Posts
On February 02 2011 13:08 travis wrote: this is the 3rd time i've played this guy. i even knew this was coming. yes of course i could get a forge and some cannons but let's be honest, if u have to blindly forge and put cannons on top of ur ramp there is something wrong with the matchup. I have never cried imbalance in pvz before because I never thought the matchup was imbalanced, but.. what the hell, come on. could a player better than myself (3200 master) please tell me what im supposed to do? hell, could any player please tell me what to do to stop this? http://www.2shared.com/file/FXZMev4q/how_do_i_beat_this_pvz.html UPDATE: someone wanted to know how to beat it well, the best way to beat this by far (that i've found, im sure there's other ways but i really think this is the best way to maintain a huge advantage) is to 1.) scout the timing. scout for roach warren just after pool, keep probe scouting zerg base just until lings are coming out 2.) make a 2nd gateway to complete ur wall. ur wall should be 2gateways and a cyber 3.) make a sentry after zealot like normal, but then start chronoboosting stalkers out while getting warpgate tech 4.) use ur forcefield to delay while u get some more stalkers out thanks for everyone's advice! i hope this can add to the solution to this build: for starters, you were working on your economy while he was working on his army - what i mean is, you got a 2nd gas before your 2nd gateway. if you see a zerg isn't expanding early, there's no reason to get a 2nd gas..to deal with zerglings, a wall of zealots at the top of the ramp work just fine. to make that many zealots, you needed to spend that money (75 for the gas, 150 for the probes = 225 minerals for gas you can't spend) on at least another gateway after your cyber. in general, it was a pretty early 2nd gas depending on what your plan was, but against a 1-base zerg, teching usually isn't the best choice. i'd even be willing to say that if you scout the early roach warren, to pull probes from gas once warpgate starts and make zealots + cannons behind your wall in. focus down the roaches with the cannons, use the zealots to slice up the lings. the DPS for stalkers simply isn't worth spending your production time, gas, and minerals to stop a rush like this. cannons on the other hand are slightly more expensive, AND they don't eat up the production time/cooldown of your gateways. finally, if the zerg was committing to this sort of rush, you can bet there will be plenty more units to follow up the initial push..2 sentries isn't gonna delay it long enough because the zerg will simply overwhelm you just like it did in the replay you linked. | ||
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imbs
United Kingdom320 Posts
Uhh what? PvP is basically 4gate every game and all the PvTs I've been playing on ladder has been one base allins from Terran. PvZ is the only matchup where we usually don't see allins. Toss has to deal with allins too. Please stop being so arrogant. not nearly as many as zerg. as protoss you can be pretty confident about the type of cheese if you will see any. if its zerg itll be 6pool or some kind of roach (sometimes with speed lings) all in. if its toss itll probly be 4gate. terran usually bio all in or sometimes a raven/banshee all in. as zerg there are a ridiculous amount of things that you need to be able to recognise and know the counter to. | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
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Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:09 immortlone wrote: + Show Spoiler + i hope this can add to the solution to this build: for starters, you were working on your economy while he was working on his army - what i mean is, you got a 2nd gas before your 2nd gateway. if you see a zerg isn't expanding early, there's no reason to get a 2nd gas..to deal with zerglings, a wall of zealots at the top of the ramp work just fine. to make that many zealots, you needed to spend that money (75 for the gas, 150 for the probes = 225 minerals for gas you can't spend) on at least another gateway after your cyber. in general, it was a pretty early 2nd gas depending on what your plan was, but against a 1-base zerg, teching usually isn't the best choice. i'd even be willing to say that if you scout the early roach warren, to pull probes from gas once warpgate starts and make zealots + cannons behind your wall in. focus down the roaches with the cannons, use the zealots to slice up the lings. the DPS for stalkers simply isn't worth spending your production time, gas, and minerals to stop a rush like this. cannons on the other hand are slightly more expensive, AND they don't eat up the production time/cooldown of your gateways. finally, if the zerg was committing to this sort of rush, you can bet there will be plenty more units to follow up the initial push..2 sentries isn't gonna delay it long enough because the zerg will simply overwhelm you just like it did in the replay you linked. This is terrible advice, making only zealots and cannons behind the wallin? Doing that will cripple your ability to do anything and the zerg can just drone up and expand. You will need the second gas since sentries are obviously the ultimate defensive unit early game. You pretty much suggested the worst possible way to deal with this. I just played a 2700 Master's zerg doing this build on the ladder and the method that Travis suggested worked just fine. I walled in my ramp completely with my second gateway and chronoed out some stalkers and sentries to hold it off. The zerg then transitioned into a baneling allin which I killed with my sentries. If his first push doesn't work he's pretty much screwed, so just use your initial scouting probe wisely and you'll be superduper fine. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:20 imbs wrote: not nearly as many as zerg. as protoss you can be pretty confident about the type of cheese if you will see any. if its zerg itll be 6pool or some kind of roach (sometimes with speed lings) all in. if its toss itll probly be 4gate. terran usually bio all in or sometimes a raven/banshee all in. as zerg there are a ridiculous amount of things that you need to be able to recognise and know the counter to. If we're dealing with one simple all-in, and you're dealing with "those" simple all-in's as well, shouldn't it be easy to recognize "simple" all-ins and be able to counter those "simple" all-ins? | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 05 2011 04:03 RoboSnail wrote: We scout for cannon rushes and we throw down cannons via 3 Gate Expo into forge. We don't have to patrol our drone, but we have to scout for proxies just like zergs against terran or protoss because they're so strong. We have to invest in early ling speed + robotics/hallucination to scout you just like you use early ling speed to deny and scout as well. Please don't try to make any race sound worse than the other, all has their own strengths and weaknesses. Everything's fair imo excluding a few recognizable things such as colossi + chokes. Lol This is so true look at all the protoss desperately trying to deal with a simple all in, when we zergs deal with these types of allins from T and P 4 out of 5 matches. Try not being so greedy along with scoutting and cutting some probes like everyone else when faced with an allin. | ||
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x6.Chouji
United States84 Posts
This push was used against my friend last night and he successfully blocked it many times with this without a sweat. A few smirks. Props to him for figuring it out. This also works vs 5RR 7RR etc. A pylon won't cut it. Don't try. | ||
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Fierco
United States31 Posts
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eZ[]rashin.sama
United States16 Posts
Ahh it's so nice. This is how zerg feels 90% of all ladder games. Stop QQing. | ||
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WoolySheep
Canada82 Posts
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On February 05 2011 12:25 eZ[]rashin.sama wrote: I GET TO FINALLY ENJOY THESE EZtoss players cry. Ahh it's so nice. This is how zerg feels 90% of all ladder games. Stop QQing. No one is crying, zergs basically found a more effective cheese than 6 pool and are using it constantly, and it's already been figured out. Now it's an instant loss if you do this to anyone who knows how to defend it, same as 6pool. If you want to go all-in to win instead of playing standard where protoss or terran have to stop the zerg from just droning up, maybe you should learn to play another race. | ||
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DuncanIdaho
United States465 Posts
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