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[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 29

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Crankenstein
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia150 Posts
December 22 2010 20:47 GMT
#561
Loved the replays. Very impressive. I think I have to work on my marine micro more before I could try something like this out myself.

I really like your building placement. Especially on Metalopolis and Xel Naga Caverns. Extending the ramp with your rax and CC, very cool

I also like how you make the turrets at an expo and then move the CC there. So many people do it in the reverse order and get rolled...

In some of the later games you transitioned into mass raven towards the end. Do you think it is worth getting a single raven earlier so that you can save tumour scans for extra mules?
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
December 22 2010 21:12 GMT
#562
On December 23 2010 05:21 ReachTheSky wrote:
So i've been thinking about this build. Are there any replays vs actual good zergs? I'm talking 2800+. No offense but anything below just isn't 'good'. The zergs i play utilize infestor turtle remax. Which seems like it would rape the hell out of this strat. 2 spines will shut down ur opening harass easily. I feel like this would only work vs newbs or people that haven't seen this before. Seems like a one trick pony tbh. can we get some real replays please?


by the time he has infestors out you will have tanks. pure MM(+M) versus infestors is just impossible. There is a replay against a ~3000 level zerg (EGStrifeCro). You usually can't put down two spines before the 5 marine push on most maps. In fact, marines will typically arrive BEFORe spine crawlers are even half way finished.
griffith.583 (NA)
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
December 22 2010 21:31 GMT
#563
On December 23 2010 06:12 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 05:21 ReachTheSky wrote:
So i've been thinking about this build. Are there any replays vs actual good zergs? I'm talking 2800+. No offense but anything below just isn't 'good'. The zergs i play utilize infestor turtle remax. Which seems like it would rape the hell out of this strat. 2 spines will shut down ur opening harass easily. I feel like this would only work vs newbs or people that haven't seen this before. Seems like a one trick pony tbh. can we get some real replays please?


by the time he has infestors out you will have tanks. pure MM(+M) versus infestors is just impossible. There is a replay against a ~3000 level zerg (EGStrifeCro). You usually can't put down two spines before the 5 marine push on most maps. In fact, marines will typically arrive BEFORe spine crawlers are even half way finished.


Yeah, I've been finding that against 2 Rax Openings, its safer to get out 10 Lings as soon as I scout it and move them out of the way on the other side of the Natural ramp while further produced lings stick around the nat in order to circumvent stutter stepping.
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 20:07:01
December 23 2010 20:00 GMT
#564
Okay, fun thing about this build in 3v3 and 4v4 is that when a Protoss Ally is prepairing to push with a writhing mass of VRs, if I stop throwing down MULEs for economy then the VRs will annihilate just about any composition after setting the MULES I land near them on follow + Auto repair. Also allows Collosi to survive Viking and Corruptor sniping attempts for a while longer. Not as impressive in conjunction with other Protoss tech.

The funniest thing I've done with them though was Mules repairing a 30 Thor Ball + supporting Mothership that would get focused as soon as the Thors in the back sniped the enemy observers.
pwadoc
Profile Joined August 2010
271 Posts
December 23 2010 21:38 GMT
#565
This build seems like it relies on something that I would consider a bug. You should be reporting it and getting it fixed, not constructing a BO around it.
Bixs
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark66 Posts
December 23 2010 22:09 GMT
#566
On December 24 2010 06:38 pwadoc wrote:
This build seems like it relies on something that I would consider a bug. You should be reporting it and getting it fixed, not constructing a BO around it.


Sigh.. the TL forums
pwadoc
Profile Joined August 2010
271 Posts
December 23 2010 22:43 GMT
#567
On December 24 2010 07:09 Bixs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2010 06:38 pwadoc wrote:
This build seems like it relies on something that I would consider a bug. You should be reporting it and getting it fixed, not constructing a BO around it.


Sigh.. the TL forums


If you don't think this use of mules is broken, I don't know what to say. This is like the ultralisk bug when they killed everything repairing a structure.

I don't really understand the rush to abuse broken mechanics.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 23:22:42
December 23 2010 22:56 GMT
#568
Seriously go read the strategy forum guidelines, there isn't room for QQing about mule balance here, there are already 100+ threads dedicated to that. TvZ is already quite difficult for Terran in the late-game, I don't think any high level 2k+ players can argue against this. Numerous pros themselves have already admitted to this. This is one of the very few threads/builds that can actually put Terran on even footing in macro/econ with Zerg in mid-late game.
griffith.583 (NA)
Crankenstein
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia150 Posts
December 23 2010 23:20 GMT
#569
Agreed. Mules might be "imba" but having maphacks creep spread and 100 stockpiled lava is eaqualy hard to deal with.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 23 2010 23:22 GMT
#570
On December 23 2010 05:21 ReachTheSky wrote:
So i've been thinking about this build. Are there any replays vs actual good zergs? I'm talking 2800+. No offense but anything below just isn't 'good'. The zergs i play utilize infestor turtle remax. Which seems like it would rape the hell out of this strat. 2 spines will shut down ur opening harass easily. I feel like this would only work vs newbs or people that haven't seen this before. Seems like a one trick pony tbh. can we get some real replays please?


if you look at the replays strifecro is 3k. Dunno if theirs others but was used against him and beat him.
When I think of something else, something will go here
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
December 24 2010 00:26 GMT
#571
Basically, its just a way for terran to get the same bonus as if he triple early expanded against zerg, but without actually being vulnerable to early aggression from zerg in any way, and while starting off with 2rax pressure/abuse.
Great find.

Now zerg just needs to find a way to triple expand in the face of a 2rax build, and saturate everything within 3 minutes of the expansions going down, while still producing enough defenses to hold off aggression from 2 barracks, and then everyone can go into the midgame on an even footing.


Ah, how I wish zerg also had the option to "just go and kill him" when faced with something like that.
Why does this work vs zerg, and not other races? Other race can actually punish someone for investing over a thousand minerals into something else than army or defenses.
ChineseWife
Profile Joined August 2010
United States373 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-24 00:45:38
December 24 2010 00:44 GMT
#572
scouted some guy trying to do this to me so i just killed him

edit: colossus >>>>>>>>>>>>> X marines
Oops I made no units
itsben
Profile Joined July 2010
435 Posts
December 24 2010 00:55 GMT
#573
On December 24 2010 09:44 onbaton wrote:
scouted some guy trying to do this to me so i just killed him

edit: colossus >>>>>>>>>>>>> X marines


Maybe because its a TvZ build.
ChineseWife
Profile Joined August 2010
United States373 Posts
December 24 2010 02:41 GMT
#574
lol that explains it. with my first obs i saw 2 cc's going down in the guy's main and i was like wtf?!?!
Oops I made no units
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
December 24 2010 19:03 GMT
#575
Yep - its a TvZ strat, mainly because baneling busts can actually be defended against with good simcity, where as timed tank/3-gate robo pushes/etc makes it impossible to defend against.
griffith.583 (NA)
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-24 19:19:16
December 24 2010 19:18 GMT
#576
In TvT and TvP, it could probably work as addition to a Siege Tank FE build... Or after your siege tanks allow you to secure your natural.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-26 18:30:52
December 26 2010 17:20 GMT
#577
the build is being migrated to the wiki - formatting. It has been re-organized and adapted to different zerg scenarios.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Griffith_4OC_(vs._Zerg)

This thread will still serve as the main place for discussions.
griffith.583 (NA)
grannock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States81 Posts
December 26 2010 22:01 GMT
#578
This build is easily crushed by a decent player. Someone tried this against me for the first time the other day and it was a joke. Basically take 3-4 base and tech up and when they push out with their large army you already have broodlords. Player I beat was ~2600 with over 1500 terran wins.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-26 22:39:04
December 26 2010 22:30 GMT
#579
Replay? I'd be interested in the timing of his pushes. If you fast expand (ie pre 10 minute mark) he can just take a large ball of MM with stim and combat shields and deny any expansions.
griffith.583 (NA)
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
December 26 2010 23:08 GMT
#580
On December 27 2010 07:01 grannock wrote:
This build is easily crushed by a decent player. Someone tried this against me for the first time the other day and it was a joke. Basically take 3-4 base and tech up and when they push out with their large army you already have broodlords. Player I beat was ~2600 with over 1500 terran wins.

Just because you beat someone once doesn't mean the build is flawed. I don't have experience using it yet, but without posting the replay, nobody here can be certain your opponent used it right, kept pressure up properly etc.
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