|
Hi, I'm protoss!
Just played a decent set of games with a zerg player.
Tried out 15 nexus and I like it a bunch. Just got a question or two?
If I delay the gas for quite a while, cannon up as needed, then triple gas and get my way to a 6 gate +1 weapons push, what is the best zerg response? Still the double expand? I wouldn't be able to shut down said third on almost every map? I won these games with room for a lot of improvement and curious what I need to worry about if I go 15 nexus into 6 gate with +1 weapons.
Thanks for the reply.
|
nice build and basically relies heavily on your instincts
|
Well i posted this in a different thread, but i don't feel like re righting it but here are some tips? i guess for pvz fe builds.
I never expand on 15 though, 16 fore me. Mainly cause i have a final crono that can boost 15 and 16 out (and im scouting at 9, which means nex at 15 isn't perfect timing)
Below is some information on how to deal with early pressure from speed lings and banelings
+ Show Spoiler +Proper building placement can go a long way. I do nexus/forge fist half my games on ladder even on maps that are not nice for fe builds.
Just like in bw you have to be constantly scouting, as long as he doesn't have speed you should be able to get into his base to see tech, if not play it safe throw up another cannon or two.
If you see early speedlings just wall your ramp. (lower ground) He tries to run by they die, and lings suck vs cannons so they will all die easy. You can kill pylon latter to move out.
Vs banelings make sure to not have any exposed pylons (you should also be able to have a zealot out to help tank) Throwing up extra buildings to help block is great.
ALways remember to scout your back area for nydus, be sure to see if he is going 1 base lair, you should be able to pull probes on time to kill nydus if you scout it asap, and you usually can have a zealot out as well.
Lastly just remember, you defend this and your way a head economically.
If its a early pool just pylon his ramp to delay lings and you can still get a forge cannon in your nat easy. If not, pull all probes (maybe leave a few mining) Goal is to delay lings till cannon is up, try not to engage if you don't have to.
If anyone wants replays of fe builds on almost any of the ladder maps let me know(im 1800 playing 2k+ zergs)
|
I'm looking into starting with a Forge FE against Zerg. Played with it twice last night and did extremely well on Jungle Basin, which is an ideal map for this type of thing. The thing is that right away I'm highly vulnerable to run-bys, and I know that's what the cannon and forge is there to prevent.
Where I'd highly recommend doing a 15 nexus is in a 2v2 or 3v3 matchup. Early rushes will likely ruin it, but at least in this case you have your allies for defense. Once your expo is up you'll be an economic powerhouse for the whole game. Just to see I tried it a couple of times in my standard warm-up / BO testing arena - Cooperative Multiplayer. Twice I was able to get massive mid-game armies at around 120 food by 14mins, and be at 200 food by 18 minutes. It's astonishing. I could not make pylons faster if I tried I was producing units so fast.
|
Check this game, GSL season 3, GuineaPig goes 18 nex succesfully. Game 2 is Forge FE, but also nice to watch (need to buy ticket tough).
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1370
He also shows cool Phoenix harass in combo with void rays. I've never seen this strat used on the GSL before.
|
Happy holidays!!
Okay so quick question;
Map: LT 1v1 PvZ
If I was to 15 nexus- and the Zerg double expos what should be the proper response of the Protoss player? Cronoboosting a couple of void to kill his 3rd or going for 3rd also? Iv been playing around with this build it seems that if the Zerg stays on 2 base, the build kills him very easily but if he takes the 3rd the Protoss is behind. If this question is not clear I apologize for my poor English.. Thank you in advance for replying!
-Cheers.
|
On November 20 2010 03:41 StorrZerg wrote:Well i posted this in a different thread, but i don't feel like re righting it but here are some tips? i guess for pvz fe builds. I never expand on 15 though, 16 fore me. Mainly cause i have a final crono that can boost 15 and 16 out (and im scouting at 9, which means nex at 15 isn't perfect timing) Below is some information on how to deal with early pressure from speed lings and banelings + Show Spoiler +Proper building placement can go a long way. I do nexus/forge fist half my games on ladder even on maps that are not nice for fe builds.
Just like in bw you have to be constantly scouting, as long as he doesn't have speed you should be able to get into his base to see tech, if not play it safe throw up another cannon or two.
If you see early speedlings just wall your ramp. (lower ground) He tries to run by they die, and lings suck vs cannons so they will all die easy. You can kill pylon latter to move out.
Vs banelings make sure to not have any exposed pylons (you should also be able to have a zealot out to help tank) Throwing up extra buildings to help block is great.
ALways remember to scout your back area for nydus, be sure to see if he is going 1 base lair, you should be able to pull probes on time to kill nydus if you scout it asap, and you usually can have a zealot out as well.
Lastly just remember, you defend this and your way a head economically.
If its a early pool just pylon his ramp to delay lings and you can still get a forge cannon in your nat easy. If not, pull all probes (maybe leave a few mining) Goal is to delay lings till cannon is up, try not to engage if you don't have to.
If anyone wants replays of fe builds on almost any of the ladder maps let me know(im 1800 playing 2k+ zergs)
Any and all replays would be hugely appreciated! Thanks!
|
On November 27 2010 11:25 DeltaG wrote:
Happy holidays!!
Okay so quick question;
Map: LT 1v1 PvZ
If I was to 15 nexus- and the Zerg double expos what should be the proper response of the Protoss player? Cronoboosting a couple of void to kill his 3rd or going for 3rd also? Iv been playing around with this build it seems that if the Zerg stays on 2 base, the build kills him very easily but if he takes the 3rd the Protoss is behind. If this question is not clear I apologize for my poor English.. Thank you in advance for replying!
-Cheers.
Depends on where his 3rd is. If it's the gold then it'd be a bit harder to take down with void/phoenix since he can reinforce from his main/natural faster. If it's not then it's very probable you can take it down with air.
If it's the gold personally I like to 6+ gateway push or blink stalker him. You want to prevent them getting a foothold around that watchtower area which will give them access to a lot of potential expos.
Personally I don't like going early air on LT since having a strong ground force to control that watchtower area is so critical on this map. Save the air play for maps like JB and Scrap.
|
Does anyone have any recent replays of this strat?
|
On November 25 2010 10:27 jikuri wrote:Check this game, GSL season 3, GuineaPig goes 18 nex succesfully. Game 2 is Forge FE, but also nice to watch (need to buy ticket tough). http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1370He also shows cool Phoenix harass in combo with void rays. I've never seen this strat used on the GSL before.
So with the 18 Nex does the throw down a gateway? or a forge? I feel like 18 seems like a weird timing with probes and forge timing and such wondering what the benifit is
|
On December 27 2010 11:51 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 10:27 jikuri wrote:Check this game, GSL season 3, GuineaPig goes 18 nex succesfully. Game 2 is Forge FE, but also nice to watch (need to buy ticket tough). http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1370He also shows cool Phoenix harass in combo with void rays. I've never seen this strat used on the GSL before. So with the 18 Nex does the throw down a gateway? or a forge? I feel like 18 seems like a weird timing with probes and forge timing and such wondering what the benifit is
19 nexus is what you get if you spend every chrono on your nexus while constantly making probes, then nexus first, so it's the most economical opener you can possibly do. Of course it dies to most things on most maps, but if you scout hatch first on shakuras you can do it for sure.
|
|
|
Is really nice to see an update on this post, personally this is one of the best P strategy threads. Encourages P players to go for nice and deep macro play. I'll love to see some new replays tho : )
|
Yes, thanks for the update, any chance of newer replays? I'm trying to learn this build but struggling mightily
|
This seems like a great strat, and I'm having a nice time with it, but I'm usually having problems with building placement. Can anyone provide some screenshots of typical placements for protecting the natural and ramp on some of suitable maps?
|
Fuck knowing what this build is good against. Tell me what I can die to 1st because honestly unless you litter your nat with cannons you can't stop a 7rr
|
On December 31 2010 03:27 OriginalBeast wrote:
Fuck knowing what this build is good against. Tell me what I can die to 1st because honestly unless you litter your nat with cannons you can't stop a 7rr
You will most likely scout a 7rr before you toss down nexus.
|
That's some nice archon usage  . I dont know if he would had been better of using broods instead of ultras.But without roach support,u could had just walked to the broods and killed them.
People forget how good archons are (altought slightly nerfed compared to the BW version).
Your composition seemed more like an giant version of zealot/archon with some stalker support :D.But i dont understand why not build 1-2 cannons per mineral line to push early instead of defending against mutas? That would had allowed u to push earlier.
Also why didn't u scouted for any third expo? Using those 2 early zeals to pressure would had forced him to make lings.And on Meta it's kind of logical for the zerg to take the gold (i dont have any exact data,but taking a regular third expo means he is just equal to u no ?) because it allows him to continue having a economical advantage.
Your replays coupled with others from this thread changed my vision on the matchup.
The only maps which u can't do 15 nexus or FFE are ones with backdoor (Shakuras Plateau or Blistering).Yes,u might get a cannon in time,but if he breaks the rocks and runs past ur cannon,u'r dead.
I'm not saying u should 15 Nexus on every map except those 2 above,but doing that puts pressure on the zerg.For the first time we are not the ones obligated to put pressure and catch up economically,the zerg has to do that now.
And if u manage to scout and find the zerg's third and get some zeals to attempt to snipe it or force early lings,u'r in top shape.
Maybe we're returning to the Path of Nal_Ra once again ? (altought he used FE mostly,but the ideea is similar)
|
I alternate between 15Nex and 3gate expand (variations on it) every PvZ. I have to say, the challenge in economic macro that you put to the Zerg with this build is so much fun. There's an unspoken conversation in my head going on about the Zerg's followup:
[Drops 16 Nex vs Hatch First] You want a phat economy? Bring it!
[Scout Roach Warren, no Third] Oh, so you think you can crack my fast expand with roaches and lings, eh? We'll just see about that! My sentries, cannons, and stalkers will take you out!
[Banelings] I hope you know how to use those, son! Because I aint making it easy on you to kill cannons OR probes!
Thanks for maintaining the post!
|
On January 09 2011 21:41 Akash wrote:That's some nice archon usage . I dont know if he would had been better of using broods instead of ultras.But without roach support,u could had just walked to the broods and killed them. People forget how good archons are (altought slightly nerfed compared to the BW version). Your composition seemed more like an giant version of zealot/archon with some stalker support :D.But i dont understand why not build 1-2 cannons per mineral line to push early instead of defending against mutas? That would had allowed u to push earlier. Also why didn't u scouted for any third expo? Using those 2 early zeals to pressure would had forced him to make lings.And on Meta it's kind of logical for the zerg to take the gold (i dont have any exact data,but taking a regular third expo means he is just equal to u no ?) because it allows him to continue having a economical advantage. Your replays coupled with others from this thread changed my vision on the matchup. The only maps which u can't do 15 nexus or FFE are ones with backdoor (Shakuras Plateau or Blistering).Yes,u might get a cannon in time,but if he breaks the rocks and runs past ur cannon,u'r dead. I'm not saying u should 15 Nexus on every map except those 2 above,but doing that puts pressure on the zerg.For the first time we are not the ones obligated to put pressure and catch up economically,the zerg has to do that now. And if u manage to scout and find the zerg's third and get some zeals to attempt to snipe it or force early lings,u'r in top shape. Maybe we're returning to the Path of Nal_Ra once again ? (altought he used FE mostly,but the ideea is similar)
Dude, my post was 3 months ago. Since then, the archon build, as well as my blink stalker build, stopped working due to the range buff on the roach and increased viability of infestors. Nowadays I use a mass void ray style to follow up an early nexus.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-154497.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-154498.jpg)
