EPTTvP 3-1-2 build. - Page 10
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
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kh4n
United States14 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4899/screenshot2010090218491.jpg) | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 03 2010 08:58 kh4n wrote: build in action! easiest 1100 victory I ever took - sweet sweet protoss tears: Hahaha glad you like it =] | ||
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LegionSC2
9 Posts
 I don't claim to be amazing-- just trying to understand how I would counter this.Just some numbers: I compared one of my anti-terran 3-gate-to-either-4gate-or-tech pressure builds as protoss vs your replays. I would send my first stalker and possibly 2nd stalker to shoot + run away repeatedly to cut down some of the troops on your ramp/buildings... to also scout and be annoying. I would keep harassing abusing shield regen if there's no concussive going up for sure. 1) by the time of your poke, you had 3 marauders/2marines1 hellion. (6:30ish?) I had 6 stalkers, 2 zealots. 500/75 resources vs my 950/300. (but you had to make fact + lab and other buildings going up) I'm pretty sure I would stomp that at that point though. 2) By the time of your typical winning attack (10m ish) You had: 3 marauders, 3 hellions, 14 marines, 1 raven, 2 banshee. ( 1700/475ish resources) I had 12 stalkers, 8 zealots, 2 sentries (2400/800ish resources) Throw in the infrastructure you build and we're semi equal in resources. (chrono boost on probes makes up the rest) Without PDD I'm certain my forces would smash that. I'm not sure how it'd go with PDD. I'd have to experiment with someone. In my area of diamond almost every terran favors MMM spam or early marine pressure. (hence my pressure build to survive until I either go robo/colo or charge/psi depending on what they're doing )It's true-- I don't have observers--- as I've been relying on harassment for recon. So far I can usually tell if someone is massing infantry or going 1:1:1 with this harassment recon. I could drop 2 stalkers and a sentry for an observer and still, I think, stand up to that assault. Then again I'm probably not as good as you are-- I'm just trying to think/calculate it out in my head to come up with a counter should I come across someone doing this. What would you do vs a protoss that just harasses the hell out of you abusing shield regen doing your strat? | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 03 2010 11:59 LegionSC2 wrote: Protoss here--- low/mid diamond (650ish whatever)--- I need to play 1s more often. I don't claim to be amazing-- just trying to understand how I would counter this.Just some numbers: I compared one of my anti-terran 3-gate-to-either-4gate-or-tech pressure builds as protoss vs your replays. I would send my first stalker and possibly 2nd stalker to shoot + run away repeatedly to cut down some of the troops on your ramp/buildings... to also scout and be annoying. I would keep harassing abusing shield regen if there's no concussive going up for sure. 1) by the time of your poke, you had 3 marauders/2marines1 hellion. (6:30ish?) I had 6 stalkers, 2 zealots. 500/75 resources vs my 950/300. (but you had to make fact + lab and other buildings going up) I'm pretty sure I would stomp that at that point though. 2) By the time of your typical winning attack (10m ish) You had: 3 marauders, 3 hellions, 14 marines, 1 raven, 2 banshee. ( 1700/475ish resources) I had 12 stalkers, 8 zealots, 2 sentries (2400/800ish resources) Throw in the infrastructure you build and we're semi equal in resources. (chrono boost on probes makes up the rest) Without PDD I'm certain my forces would smash that. I'm not sure how it'd go with PDD. I'd have to experiment with someone. In my area of diamond almost every terran favors MMM spam or early marine pressure. (hence my pressure build to survive until I either go robo/colo or charge/psi depending on what they're doing )It's true-- I don't have observers--- as I've been relying on harassment for recon. So far I can usually tell if someone is massing infantry or going 1:1:1 with this harassment recon. I could drop 2 stalkers and a sentry for an observer and still, I think, stand up to that assault. Then again I'm probably not as good as you are-- I'm just trying to think/calculate it out in my head to come up with a counter should I come across someone doing this. What would you do vs a protoss that just harasses the hell out of you abusing shield regen doing your strat? 6 Stalkers and two zealots vs my first poke? That would almost certainly mean you are going two gate really fast and my first SCV will obviously see that so I would have no intention of poking in. And yeah I do get my concussive upgrade in most of the replays. My replays vs the much more standard one gate robo into 3 gate robo has a good poke that will let me kill off a few units and scout out what's up. It seems what you are trying to do is go mass gateway no robotics, and you are calculating army strength off resources which is the wrong way to go about things. Instead of thinking about these funky situational timings/counters you really just have to find someone to practice with. I have no clue what you are talking about as to abusing shield regen. After my 5 unit force there is a small timing window to do so which includes remaking a good amount of stalkers, sending them down to my base, moving up the ramp only to be forced back down, and then two banshees pop out. | ||
abominare
United States1216 Posts
You go heavy zealot and tech to charge while adding more gateways having 4-5 stalkers the rest zealots. You can't kite or chew through that many zealots and when charge is done the marines are pretty useless. Even if you take out the first set of stalkers he can warp them in fast enough to counter your banshee production. 150 health per zealot is a lot to chew through and the hellions just don't do enough dps to clear through a large pool of them with an sort of good unit spread.Maruader slow is a nice touch but three wont be able to keep a good pool of zealots slow. Youre forced to move away from your pdd either choosing to let the banshees stay and try to duke it out with ever warping in stalker menace or move back with your army trying to pick off zealots while retreating. This buys the protoss time to further cement his answer to your squishy but high dps force. Also a beeline to void rush on this build throws it off since youre sacrificing banshees for the viking since maraine count is so low from the initial marauders. edit: you can technically skip the robo but its nice to see what you have coming you just need sentries to ff ramp. This build handles a lot of openings but unfortunately its hard to move out of and cedes a lot of mid-game control if answered properly. edit 2: tried to clean it up sorry been drinking more than usual tonight | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 03 2010 12:49 abominare wrote: 1 gateway into robo into 3-4 more gateways is a little rough on this. You stop the poke with forcefield on ramp. You go heavy zealot and tech to chrage while adding more gateways havie 4-5 stalkers the rest zealots. You can't kite or chew through that many zealots and when charge is dun the marines are pretty uesless. Even if you take out the first set of stalkers he can warp tem in fast enough to counter your banshee production. 150 health per zealot and the hellions just dont do enough dps, with assuming 3 surviving marauders from the poke not enough slow to kite a heavy zealot force. edit: you can technically skip the robo but its nice to see what you have coming you just need sentries to ff ramp. This build handles a lot of openings but unfortunately its hard to move out of and cedes a lot of midgame control if answered properly. I'm normally not a grammar nazi but, what the fuck is this shit? | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 03 2010 13:07 kaisr wrote: Toss here played against this today got owned pretty hard. Owned first push with forcefield, opponent being careless so i caught some of his guys on the way back. Expanded, macroed up had chargelots, stalkers and like 2 immortals. Got raped by 2 ravens like 6 banshees and like some marines? Anyways question is should I just treat PDD like darkswarm and retreat? Dance with stalkers since terran won't want to get out of PDD range. Just poke in, shoot, poke out, to kill off some energy. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On September 03 2010 13:07 kaisr wrote: Toss here played against this today got owned pretty hard. Owned first push with forcefield, opponent being careless so i caught some of his guys on the way back. Expanded, macroed up had chargelots, stalkers and like 2 immortals. Got raped by 2 ravens like 6 banshees and like some marines? Anyways question is should I just treat PDD like darkswarm and retreat? Depends on stalker count, this is once of those situations where having your army a little ahead of your expo is nice. If he blows all his pdd up front you move back if he launches 1 then you should be able to overwhelm the second one when he pushes further and gets to your nat. | ||
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LegionSC2
9 Posts
On September 03 2010 12:10 superbabosheki wrote: 6 Stalkers and two zealots vs my first poke? That would almost certainly mean you are going two gate really fast and my first SCV will obviously see that so I would have no intention of poking in. And yeah I do get my concussive upgrade in most of the replays. My replays vs the much more standard one gate robo into 3 gate robo has a good poke that will let me kill off a few units and scout out what's up. It seems what you are trying to do is go mass gateway no robotics, and you are calculating army strength off resources which is the wrong way to go about things. Instead of thinking about these funky situational timings/counters you really just have to find someone to practice with. I have no clue what you are talking about as to abusing shield regen. After my 5 unit force there is a small timing window to do so which includes remaking a good amount of stalkers, sending them down to my base, moving up the ramp only to be forced back down, and then two banshees pop out. Like I said-- you probably understand the dynamics better--- I do need to find someone to practice with vs that. And yeah gate way pressure--- vs someone teching like that. It's worked for me oddly enough vs some 111 people. Your build techs a bit more with two starports and doesn't have tanks so I was hoping to be able to pressure it hmmm So you don't think gateway pressure would be a valid counter at all? (thanks for posting the loss vs that protoss w/templar too.. giving me other ideas ) As for regen harass... I meant non stop shooting terran on their ramp with my first few stalkers and running away.. then shooting... then running away etc.... concussive puts a stop to it though.  | ||
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Relapse916
United States8 Posts
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 03 2010 16:43 Relapse916 wrote: I used this strat a few times in low level leagues Mid Platinum and I cant get past a simple 4 gate push. Seems like I'm talking about the same thing as Legion, at 6 minutes when I go to move out he already has way too many stalkers and just pushes right into my base before the Raven comes out, how would you react to this or change anything up if u think ur opponent is just going to 4 gate and mass stalkers You're probably not doing this build right at all then, and I do admit it does require a decent amount of multitasking, timing of the buildings/depots, and micro. 4 gate is more all-in than this in terms of economy, tech, and unit count. If you do think it is a 4 gate all you have to do is research cloak, build a bunker and autowin. In fact, 4 gate is probably one of the worst responses to this build. People seem to forget about the fact that with this build terran pretty much has access to the entire tech tree and can go almost any route. | ||
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Relapse916
United States8 Posts
I uploaded this replay if you have time to skim through it and point out anything I might need to work on im sure theres a bunch of things, I microed terrible in the poke and just got demolished with stalkers. maybe some of my timings are off with the build? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/70999-1v1-terran-protoss-delta-quadrant thanks | ||
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CuChullain
Switzerland85 Posts
which unit should I attack first? Which is the best counter to this build? | ||
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pak150
United States531 Posts
Your replays have been very educational — thanks for sharing! | ||
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.ImpacT.
United States390 Posts
All I had to do was camp at my ramp and split your first army, which was easily demolished by 2 zealots 1 stalker and 1 sentry...I see no way for this to do ANY damage... The 2 starports get scouted by the 2gate robo observer long before a raven is out, and if I see a terran massing marines I just go lolzealotsentry and 1a2a3f to win... Sentries do FAR better vs air than people give credit for, 1 sentry has just .2 DPS less than a marine, and if I go 2gate robo 3gate charge, I'll have HTs out quickly if I see banshees for feedback (equals almost dead/softened up banshees that lose to my sentry focus fire.) The ground army gets demolished by 1/2 immortals and chargelots as well as archons/storm, and since you tech so hard it allows me to do a 2robo 3gate fast expand completely safely. I'll be on 2 bases before you even start to expo since all my gas goes into tech/hts since I'm massing chargelot. replays coming soon. | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On September 03 2010 23:55 .ImpacT. wrote: Had my friend try this build on me (he's a 1200 D terran...) and against my 2gate robo 3gate charge, this was....horrible... All I had to do was camp at my ramp and split your first army, which was easily demolished by 2 zealots 1 stalker and 1 sentry...I see no way for this to do ANY damage... The 2 starports get scouted by the 2gate robo observer long before a raven is out, and if I see a terran massing marines I just go lolzealotsentry and 1a2a3f to win... Sentries do FAR better vs air than people give credit for, 1 sentry has just .2 DPS less than a marine, and if I go 2gate robo 3gate charge, I'll have HTs out quickly if I see banshees for feedback (equals almost dead/softened up banshees that lose to my sentry focus fire.) The ground army gets demolished by 1/2 immortals and chargelots as well as archons/storm, and since you tech so hard it allows me to do a 2robo 3gate fast expand completely safely. I'll be on 2 bases before you even start to expo since all my gas goes into tech/hts since I'm massing chargelot. replays coming soon. Just want to drop a quick note on sentry "anti-air," it takes 2 banshees 3 seconds to FF down a sentry; in comparison it takes 2 sentries about 9 seconds to kill a banshee. Also, you can't expect to be able to get a perfect split every game. Sounds like your friend sent in the hellion first; maras first can focus down the stalker and sentry, then kite zealots while marine and hellion offer fire support from behind FF. Also, you can bet that most toss players would have fewer zealots and more stalkers vs Terran; obviously you tailored your army to what you knew would walk up the ramp. I'm sure that you realize that the "winning push" comes way before you can go down 2 tech trees; you will either have observers or you will have charge with archives on the way. | ||
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Cynry
810 Posts
I'm mostly a P player, so allow me to theorycraft a soft-counter as I can't play atm... The big issue for P seems to be the first timing attack (not the poke). Because it has high DPS, and the PDD can negates stalkers shots. So, what about mass sentries/zealots ? Guardian shield would be very effective against that army comp of fast shooting units (plus banshees would suffer a 4 damage reduction per shot) and their attack don't get blocked by PDD at all. Mass FF would allow the zealots to wreck the marines. Finally, the overall cost of this army comp is lower than zealot/stalkers, freeing some minerals for whatever please you. Here are some cons to balance that theorycraft... Sentries have low HP, lots of micro needed to take the most out of it, they are outranged by banshees, and much slower than stalkers are, making your whole base more vulnerable to banshee harass. But hey, if that's the price to lol at the PDD, why not give it a try... PS: I KNOW this is pure theory, am just trying to help my toss buddies out there... | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On September 04 2010 01:23 Shaithis wrote: Also, you can't expect to be able to get a perfect split every game. You don't need a perfect one though. Anything from 1-3 will destroy it. Sounds like your friend sent in the hellion first; maras first can focus down the stalker and sentry, then kite zealots while marine and hellion offer fire support from behind FF. Except you aren't getting all your marauders into a toss's base, and the couple that do go in can't kill the stalkers in time. Also, you can bet that most toss players would have fewer zealots and more stalkers vs Terran; obviously you tailored your army to what you knew would walk up the ramp. More stalkers works fine too. Let a couple units up the ramp, kill them from long range with only 1-2 shooting back. Absolute worst case is you need a couple probes to tank for your stalkers after FF drops, if you lose all your zealots. That push is the weakest part of this build (and the rest is just marine/banshee all-in really). You can stop it on Kulas, it's trivial to stop with a ramp and a sentry. | ||
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