EPTOn May 20 2010 19:26 a176 wrote:
I thought everyone used nydus
I thought everyone used nydus
same...
im a bad player and I think their value is completely obvious....
Nydus Worms, Use them - Page 5
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OhGee
United States46 Posts
same... im a bad player and I think their value is completely obvious.... | ||
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OhGee
United States46 Posts
On June 06 2010 14:08 Jayme wrote: Eh they cost a good chunk of gas and are only really good when the other player isn't... I have found much better luck with overlord drops. wait, 100 gas is a lot? sure its 200 for the original canal, but....I don't think 100 is a lot, especially mid/late game.... It is just flat out UNTRUE that only a bad player will fall for them. | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On June 06 2010 21:28 Antisocialmunky wrote: Why don't you combine Nydus with Ovie drop so you land units to secure a beach head and just throw all your larva into follow-up units. Also, why don't more people just use them like Nydus canal and Nydus all their bases together? Because 100 gas for every base is just not practical when creep means my movement speed will be respectable anyway. It works for certain circumstances, but definitely not something I can see myself wanting to do often. As for combining the two, well, that's not a bad idea, though just elevator dropping sounds just as effective. On June 06 2010 21:55 OhGee wrote: wait, 100 gas is a lot? sure its 200 for the original canal, but....I don't think 100 is a lot, especially mid/late game.... It is just flat out UNTRUE that only a bad player will fall for them. Yeah, 100 gas is a lot, since it won't be just 100, it'll be 100 * x where x increases exponentially as your opponent's skill gets better. | ||
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Cheebah
210 Posts
But they're also very useful to obtain tremendous army surrounds. Let's say on LT, you can build one behind the gold minerals (very slim chance of it being scouted if you don't destroy the rocks) and turn your natural choke into a deadly trap when he moves in. And obviously you can build some at your late expansions to shorten the distance. Plus it's kind of a psychological oppression : if you try to sneak a worm once, most of the time your opponent will get paranoid and start scouting around his base(s) like crazy, which might reduce his focus on macro. But still I see it as an additional tool or a coincidental game decider, it's not like you can think ' I'm gonna go for nydus networks every game cause they're so cool ' even if they actually are very cool ^^ | ||
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n3mo
United States298 Posts
here's an example of baller use of nydus canals. im terran, and this gives me nightmares. | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
I also found that once a second nydus entrance pops up and units stream from it, the player forgets that the first worm even exists. It is as if it overwhelms their management and then don't think to kill the first entrance. | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3695732/ http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3695779/ | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
If so, Zergs should just use Nydus Worms to link Expoes together. It would make navigating around so much easier. edit: Course you'd have to deal with your nydus getting killed when you're in transit. | ||
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codewarrior
United States52 Posts
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DubPoker
United States21 Posts
I do feel Nydus use is pretty incredible late game, especially if both players are able to hold a few expos. It gives you very good map control. I have never used them in a non cheesy way though lol, but haven't used them in many patches, I would like to incorporate them into my game. I do feel they have their use, but like most strategies it depends on what your opponent is doing. I dislike the people who pass it off as never having a use, that is just suborn... unless you talk about Carriers most units are useful in some situations. | ||
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latx
1 Post
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Zerker
Canada201 Posts
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
On May 20 2010 19:50 Madkipz wrote: Just like rushing voidrays is another tool in protoss arsenal ;? I agree with the fact that there is a fine line between utterly cheap and simply being more mobile, however rather than paying 300 gas for two nydus worms i would invest in either spire or hydra den and perhaps even get a few upgrades for the same price as two - three worms. As day9 says. It is important to have the basics down and to understand all 3 matchups before you begin experimenting with terrain advantage, overlord drops and nydus worms. Because if you can win without these cute things then when you finally start experimenting with them these cute things will become that much more deadly. I agree that it is great and it can win you games but even in lower platinum, I just think that there are other ways to improve rather than corporate nydus worm and doom drops into your overall strategy. wtf lol>? | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
But seriously, if you have to run your drones, its likely your hatch will go down instead. And after giving it some thought its not better than a drop in anyway, if it is, give me a circumstance?... Lastly another reason that its useless is the fact that if hes attacking your base, why not attack his... base trading favors zerg afterall. Overall I just see it a D- iCCup strategy equivelent of a hidden expo. Honestly, by the time they get NW how can you not have full vision of your main base? | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On June 07 2010 00:05 Zergneedsfood wrote: Yes, and please keep in mind that if at some moment all of your nydus networks/worms get killed, the units inside them are gone forever, even if you rebuild the NN.edit: Course you'd have to deal with your nydus getting killed when you're in transit. This can also be abused vs Zerg - if you notice the Zerg uses Nydus, try to kill the worms and networks while he is transitioning. It could be instant loss of a very huge army. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On June 06 2010 21:55 OhGee wrote: wait, 100 gas is a lot? sure its 200 for the original canal, but....I don't think 100 is a lot, especially mid/late game.... It is just flat out UNTRUE that only a bad player will fall for them. On June 06 2010 21:53 OhGee wrote: same... im a bad player and I think their value is completely obvious.... Rofl... It's been said so many times here. The gas cost is too high comparatively. Drop is better in so many ways, the ONLY advantage it has is that it is instant transport (sortof). In attacking, drops are so much better because there is no alert that you are about to be attacked until your units have taken damage. Another under recognised // under appreciated fact is that drops will get your units out faster, an opposed drop as compared to an opposed offensive nydus will do much more damage and your units will be much more efficient. Drops are a single 200/200 (300/300? with speed)cost, and can be used at any time you wish. Offensive nydus can be stopped, and you will lose 100/100. Drops can be pulled back such that the user will not lose anything. Drops seen over your base on the minimap will do damage. Seeing a nydus in your base means you have 20 seconds to kill it before he can get anything out. And even if you dont kill it, you can just snipe all the units coming out of it single file. Basically, a nydus exit is a 100/100 gamble that guarantees nothing that a drop could not do without taking the same 100/100 risk. Lastly, nydus will not work against a decent player who hasnt made the mistake of leaving his base open to a drop anyways. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
1. Its faster and more flexible in most cases. 2. Units in the NN do not get killed if the Worm gets killed. 3. If scouted and repelled, then you only lose 1 Worm (100/100), while a repelled Drop can be desastrous. 4. In long macro games it can be used defensively to connect hatcheries. 5. with nicely spread tumors you have sight over a huge area on the map and can possibly use the Network very tactically. On June 18 2010 16:58 Skillz_Man wrote: You know, I learnt something a while back; if a strategy is good people will use it, but Id like to clear a few things up. Making NW doesnt have a guaranteed profit unlike a hydralisk or roach, you depend on micro and sometimes luck for it to pay off, so it cant become standard and will be very situational. Playing against a good player I dont feel the resource investment will be worth it because the NW will get sniped too often. Using them for defence sounds reasonable, you can run your drones but using it to save an expo seems worthless due to mobility of zerg on creep and how slow the units transfer. Right now NW feel like TvZ 2 port wraith... If excecuted perfectly it has a benefit but alot of room for error. But seriously, if you have to run your drones, its likely your hatch will go down instead. And after giving it some thought its not better than a drop in anyway, if it is, give me a circumstance?... Lastly another reason that its useless is the fact that if hes attacking your base, why not attack his... base trading favors zerg afterall. Overall I just see it a D- iCCup strategy equivelent of a hidden expo. Honestly, by the time they get NW how can you not have full vision of your main base? Whether something depends on micro to work or not doesnt a lot of influence on the viability of a tactic/strategy as you might learn from the BW history. Many tactics and strategies that are common in BW need a shitload of micromanagement. I think if you want to use the network offensively then you can achieve that not only by hoping that your opponent doesnt see it... | ||
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Roaming
United States239 Posts
I tried to use it defensively to connect my bases in a couple games but the worm kept getting killed leaving half my army at the other base. Creep tumors are practically free and works nearly as fast but your army stays together. | ||
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Actua
Canada101 Posts
Its not a necessity to make it into someones base with it. It can be used a la SC1 sauce, insta porting your units all accross the map. It literraly is the BEST mobility a ground army can get in the whole game. It works best on larger maps though, because their effect and potential just exponentially rise. Ive used em to great effect on desert oasis, having like 5-6 nyduses in key locations, doing hit and runs, porting back to defend, porting foward to strike/harass. Really, Zerg could be imba on larger maps only due to that mechanic. Nydus in SC1 was crazy good. Withoutthe creep restriction in SC2, its just that much better. | ||
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BlackDraft
United States64 Posts
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