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Nydus Worms, Use them - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
June 19 2010 15:18 GMT
#141
I find them best used later in the game when people are on 2 or even 3 bases. They know your army is nowhere near one of their expansions and suddenly you show up where you 'can't be'. I would rather just do drops in someones main than hoping a nydus play works since good players spot it way too easily.

Ragnar4
Profile Joined May 2010
United States64 Posts
June 19 2010 18:55 GMT
#142
Nydus worm, plus highground behind a natural expansion = completely shut down expansion for cheap! Not only that, but you can put down a creep tumor, and a few crawlers.. and life is good.

Khulas Ravine becomes scary to any of the Z opponents because their naturals are just as abuseable as ours.

Also: A lot of times, when Terran go 1:1:1, after their wall in, they have this horrible tendency to stop all unit production until they have tanks available. If you catch an opponent going 1:1:1, you could fast tech with roaches and lings and be in their base just about as quickly as their first tank is producing or finishing.

In fact, if your opponent walls in, if you scream to nydus tech as fast as possible, you'll probably be able to force split in order to take advantage of their lack of units.



If actions speak louder than words: Why is it when the two contradict, everyone comes back to what I said?
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
June 19 2010 19:13 GMT
#143
Worms are best used against a turtle player - you can quickly hit their min line or elsewhere in their base where their army is not. (hops that makes sense :S)
133 221 333 123 111
Challe
Profile Joined June 2010
Afghanistan58 Posts
June 19 2010 20:38 GMT
#144
I hardly ever see anyone use nydus worms.
Pads
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
England3228 Posts
June 19 2010 20:45 GMT
#145
just thought i'd mention, every time I go to the sc2 strat forum, in the op it always says "I was watching day9 and.." every fucking time rofl, the dudes a king amongst men.
#1 Kwanro[saM] fan!
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
June 19 2010 21:33 GMT
#146
On June 20 2010 04:13 GenesisX wrote:
Worms are best used against a turtle player - you can quickly hit their min line or elsewhere in their base where their army is not. (hops that makes sense :S)


Except a turtling player usually have an army in their base.
Thoro
Profile Joined June 2010
United States57 Posts
June 19 2010 23:05 GMT
#147
Anyone remember the Vanilla SC mission where you get introduced to Nydus Canals?

You have 2 different canals, each one on opposite but key ends of the map, each leading to your main, each next to a hatch.

What about worm play like that? Use them near key points on the map, such as high yeilds, choke points, out-of-the-way areas that are hard to reach, or Towers, build a hatch near them, and use them to fast transit between each other, allowing you to control these key areas.
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
June 20 2010 08:31 GMT
#148
On June 20 2010 05:45 Pads wrote:
just thought i'd mention, every time I go to the sc2 strat forum, in the op it always says "I was watching day9 and.." every fucking time rofl, the dudes a king amongst men.


What are you saying exactly? A lot of people can agree and come to an understanding on the topics Sean talks about. It is a good reference point.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
dagene
Profile Joined June 2010
United States75 Posts
June 20 2010 08:50 GMT
#149
you don't necessarily need to put the nydus worm down in your opponent's base. you can place a nydus worm in the same place a protoss player would place a forward pylon for warpgate units. You can rally your hatcheries to the nydus network or a nydus worm and use that to get quick reinforcements. you do need to occasionally go and hit unload on your nydus worm though. and you can rally from the nydus worm as well

also, a good time to throw down a nydus worm against a mech terran might be when he's moving his tanks/thors out towards you. you could potentially hop in with your units and do a lot of damage to his lightly defended/undefended base(s) and then nydus back in time to defend your bases.
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-20 10:42:58
June 20 2010 10:40 GMT
#150
i used them a lot when i first got my beta key and it actually worked out quite well. it's just that, speaking as a pretty bad player, it wouldn't do me much good to only get wins with the nydus worm. so basically i decided to get good at the bulk of the game and come back to nydus worms later when i'm not such a noob.

i've had it used on me by another zerg though, and i have this to say about it - if you don't catch it, it can fuck you up fast. and even if you do catch it, it's extremely stressful. i felt like i had to run around constantly bopping these things down before they spilled an army into my base and made me paranoid in general. i had to focus on a lot more, so if the other zerg had used the later worms as a diversion he could've easily pulled a different strategy off while my attention was focused elsewhere...


and yeah like others have said, it's a very flexible tool, doesn't just have to be for doomdrops, and i've seen a lot of games where i was thinking 'this guy should use a worm like a forward pylon'
payed off security
Tazman
Profile Joined April 2010
Egypt23 Posts
June 20 2010 14:16 GMT
#151
NW can also be used to get a flank on an enemy army, just use the overlord ability to spew creep and pop a worm there.
A well lived life is reflected by the number of memories one has.
Pads
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
England3228 Posts
June 20 2010 19:31 GMT
#152
On June 20 2010 17:31 P00RKID wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2010 05:45 Pads wrote:
just thought i'd mention, every time I go to the sc2 strat forum, in the op it always says "I was watching day9 and.." every fucking time rofl, the dudes a king amongst men.


What are you saying exactly? A lot of people can agree and come to an understanding on the topics Sean talks about. It is a good reference point.


i didn't say it was a bad thing, infact completly the opposite (hence the 'he's a king amongst men'), i just found it interesting how many people DO refer to him when talking sc2 strategy, I see it in streams all the time too.
#1 Kwanro[saM] fan!
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 20 2010 20:14 GMT
#153
I use nyduses to control the map more than backdoor a base, base backdoor is a one trick pony, because if it fails, they protect from it ever happening again. thats why you got to keep popping nyduses everywhere not only for even faster creep spread (keep a queen in your network for creep tumors only) but for rapid movement and attacks from many angles, and to take riskier expansions.
Quornix
Profile Joined June 2010
23 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-20 23:13:52
June 20 2010 23:11 GMT
#154
Nydus usefulness is highly conditional.

It depends heavily on the units you use. Zergling / mutalisk doesn't need it, queens and roaches love it, banelings and ultras don't need it but can benefit from it just for the DPS per second transferred in backdoor attacks. Note that the one set of units that really shine with them are very heavy on the minerals and fairly food-dense for fast transit of significant power.

It depends heavily on the map. Big maps obviously increase the value of the network, but a Nydus network can exploit all sorts of little map quirks. Can you wall off a mid-map choke and use the network to jump past? Are there little nooks and crannies near the enemy base (or in it) where you can hide a close worm? Are there two or three places where you can assault your enemy at the same time?

It depends heavily on how much you use it. When you build your first building, it's totally useless. One route you can take is nearly useless except for getting lucky with a backdoor. But get up a second or third network, and you can attack at multiple points at once. Set up enough worms in your base, and you can basically keep your non-zergling army in the network while "at rest" to show up wherever you want.

It depends heavily on your opponent. The more mobile your opponent is, the less effective it is on offense, and the more likely you are to have to worry about surprise attacks and the speed of the network on defense. At the other end of the spectrum are siege tanks and static defenses that can no longer cover just a forward choke or two, but every path to your base from untaken expansions or open ground.

All of these dependencies are synergistic -- a roach / queen army on a large map will be terrifying with a lot of Nydus networks and lots of worms (and will have the gas to pay for them). They'd be a stupid addition to your fast baneling bust on Steppes of War.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
June 20 2010 23:16 GMT
#155
^^Hydras could also use nydas transportation as they feel slow as *beep* on larger maps.
Sylph
Profile Joined May 2010
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-21 01:37:50
June 21 2010 01:36 GMT
#156
Thing is, if the opponent hits you RIGHT when your troops are in-transit via nydus, you're dead.

More specifically, a Banshee harass would shut down the game for you right there.

And all it takes to prevent nydus is gain vision throughout your base, which isn't that hard. Turrets, creep tumors, structures, etc.

A player would have to be really... bad... to not notice a nydus in their base.
You must stream additional Pylons!
Kratisto
Profile Joined June 2008
United States199 Posts
June 21 2010 02:22 GMT
#157
On June 21 2010 10:36 Sylph wrote:
Thing is, if the opponent hits you RIGHT when your troops are in-transit via nydus, you're dead.

More specifically, a Banshee harass would shut down the game for you right there.

And all it takes to prevent nydus is gain vision throughout your base, which isn't that hard. Turrets, creep tumors, structures, etc.

A player would have to be really... bad... to not notice a nydus in their base.


That's a stupid sentiment. "If he hits you when your troops are in transit" applies to pretty much every army in the game. I'd say proper Nydus placement gives you a more mobile army, meaning you won't be caught out of position nearly as easily.

Also, simply having vision in your base doesn't prevent the Nydus worm from popping up. It takes only twenty game seconds to build and it has a reasonable amount of health. If you get one up inside a Terran's base when he's, say, responding to your front door attack, he'll have a lot of trouble recovering. Short of a game-winning Nydus in the back of your opponent's base, they can be used to faster reinforce an army the way Protoss players tend to leave proxy pylons everywhere for their warp gates, and it makes defending your numerous expansions a lot easier.

That and spread creep everywhere.
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
June 21 2010 02:54 GMT
#158
Also, simply having vision in your base doesn't prevent the Nydus worm from popping up. It takes only twenty game seconds to build and it has a reasonable amount of health


This really isn't true, you have to not be paying attention for a nydus play to work if they have vision on it. It takes time to spit out the entire army and if you get even a few units there you can completely shut the thing down very easily.

Nydus worm is much better used outside of someones base or to attack a base when they fail to build properly than it is to take out someones base with vision. If you build your base properly they are borderline useless against your main base.
Quornix
Profile Joined June 2010
23 Posts
June 21 2010 03:11 GMT
#159
Oh, and the best part about a heavy Nydus build is that if you start out by Nydusing your base, your opponent will either become used to the sound of a Nydus bursting or spend a whole lot of time checking out the bitty corners of their base. When you do come for him, the panic on the sound will be lessened, and you'll have that bit more time to get your army out.
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
June 21 2010 03:11 GMT
#160
Just saying...but I find overlord drops much more effective than nydus. Less of an investment, and harder to stop IMO.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
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