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On May 28 2011 18:39 Tristan107 wrote:
A few stats about the so called "easy" zerg AI :
* At 9 minutes, it has 50 drones,
* a few minutes later, it has 4 bases, including gold (which looks a better situation than the demo game, where the "very hard" AI had only a 4th distant hatch).
* It does muta harass on main, and simultaneously attacks the natural with speedlings/banelings/roaches
* It has "diamond" level in the final panel.
* It goes up to more than 200 APM (in the end of the game).
Conclusion : for a silver player, it's quite too much, even in "normal" mode... Even with a fine macro with no nuke, it requires a very high micro, it's too bad for a macro training map.
Agree with this post. I find my 1v1 games worse off build order wise even though I've learned to spend money easier. The AI has insane micro that a gold toss like me struggles to work against, let alone care about my macro =/
Nice training map though.
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On May 29 2011 15:28 Tristan107 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:58 Dreyven wrote:
That's strange, i played against medium right now... and it's kinda stupid
PvZ
i fast expanded at 16 or so, he took his expo at 25ish
pretty standart game, zerg takes 3rd before me and goes roach hydra
but! the AI never took the 4th, we had a lot of army trade offs and once i had the gold as my 4th it got easier and easier and easier, because he stoped expanding and run dry
btw i went pure zealot archon just to test and it was really easy for me... maybe it's the ai's fault?
It would be really helpful for me if you could upload a replay (http://drop.sc/, http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php, http://www.sc2replayed.com/ or http://replays.wgpower.net/)And also a replay versus the "easy" AI (which is maybe harder than the "medium" one...).
here you go, messing around, playing bad and crushing the medium AI still with ease
i am gold league btw
http://drop.sc/11576
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Please upload on SEA Mate?
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On May 29 2011 20:57 Dreyven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 15:28 Tristan107 wrote:On May 29 2011 07:58 Dreyven wrote:
That's strange, i played against medium right now... and it's kinda stupid
PvZ
i fast expanded at 16 or so, he took his expo at 25ish
pretty standart game, zerg takes 3rd before me and goes roach hydra
but! the AI never took the 4th, we had a lot of army trade offs and once i had the gold as my 4th it got easier and easier and easier, because he stoped expanding and run dry
btw i went pure zealot archon just to test and it was really easy for me... maybe it's the ai's fault?
It would be really helpful for me if you could upload a replay (http://drop.sc/, http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php, http://www.sc2replayed.com/ or http://replays.wgpower.net/)And also a replay versus the "easy" AI (which is maybe harder than the "medium" one...). here you go, messing around, playing bad and crushing the medium AI still with ease i am gold league btw http://drop.sc/11576
Ok, thanks for trying this. Zealot/Archon is a nice fun mix 
Now you can see the "medium" AI has only 24 drones at 9:00. Could you try to do the same FFE against an "easy" AI (which has 50 drones at 9:00) ? Or better, a 3-gate sentry expand ? (which is the standard BO I would like to train to)
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Hello, I've been playing MoD on EU, since it was added by Vusi. I have noticed a couple of things that just don't seem to feel right. So, my first attempt on the map, was on medium (My mistake) I usualy play on medium/hard. I am not a great player. So I got slaughtered..
So, I changed to Very Easy, I've won a couple of games. My macro has improved, But for the most part, if I go against Zerg or Terran I usualy get 7 roached or 3 rax'd. I haven't played much. And my friend is teaching me the basics.
To be honest, the difficulty / Artificial player level is.. Temperamental, I mean my last game - Look below...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UvRGH.jpg) - Hard to see but that says Grandmaster x6.
Now I don't know how the system works, and won't pretend to understand. But at the lowest level of difficulty, suffering mass Archon / HT armies, with carrier back up, definitely isn't the easiest I could imagine.
I know it's getting better the hard way. And my Macro has improved. But at any point in the game I can be annihilated. It might just be me, but slightly fairer odds, at a low level of play, for people like me who like the macro nuke to keep us in check but want to expand into mid-late game play, as in bronze league it's just cheese..
I guess my wall of text is just asking, if you could have one level, that doesn't have a learning curve that'd give you vertigo. So people like me who know the basics, and that's about it.. Can use this tool more efficiently.
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the thing is, his macro is grandmaster
BUT like i said before, it just tracks if you spend the ressources and if you get supplyblocked
it however doesn't track if you're constantly making workers and expanding at the right times
that means i, myself, would be able to get grandmaster x1 macro by just staying on 6 probes
imagine how easy it would be for me to follow the rules
the better your income gets, the harder it will be to get a good rank in this map
post the replay, it would be interesting to see how good the macro of the ai really is so i can compare it to medium, easy, and the other ones
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The only problem is that you can't survive the AI until x1 with 6 probes, so I'm thinking that if you're winning with 4 bases, ~75 probes and it still rates you in GM you must be doing smth right...
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It's the way it works. If you have below x amount of resources times y amount of supply. You go up it's simple, in that respect.
http://replayfu.com/r/S6fKJq - As I said I'm not very good. And someone who knows how to play better could probably counter. I'm still learning the game, so I just die. - But then someone who knows the game, probably won't be playing on Very Easy. It's just a question to Major, that can it be less aggressive, smart and well.. Hard on Very Easy.
Bronze 19 x is resource below 19 * supply count (made) - Or something, for those who didn't use the tool tips.
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Thank you so much for publishing it on EU.
After 3-4 times playing it vs AI my macro noticeably improved already (I'm Bronze so there's lotsa space for growth, but it's nice feeling it tapped)
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i dont know if somebody mentioned this but the (Macro or die) Xel naga
is on Fast not on faster and you can not change it
or is it just a display feature and the game is on faster
Thank you for publishing this on the EU Server.
Just some wishes or thoughts from me.
I would wish that i can tell the ai to
4gate,dt rush,void rush,1/2base colossus,6pool,1/2base roach rush,1/2base baneling bust,cloak banshee,hellion drop,2rax,3rax,6rax,thor rush me ^^
macro without pressure is easy 
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the feedback.
First things first...I'm so close to having a rematch option in I can taste it. I had to reach out to some other mapmakers for help. My solution currently works for everyone but Zerg - the stupid creep keeps messing up the mineral resets (if you know how to solve this pm me).
Thanks for finding the game speed bug. I had set the game to be on slowest before everyone pressed the ready button and then hardcoded it to go back to fastest instead of the chosen game speed. I will fix this.
As far as difficulty goes...the Easy AI is aggressive; it's not really hard. Once it starts cheating (@ medium) it becomes hard. The Very Easy is Blizzard's Very Hard AI. It cheats, it doesn't change up it's strategy, and it's broken. I don't recommend using this; jump straight to easy.
I think some of the hurdles that are causing trouble with the easy AI can't be covered in this trainer. I'll try to address the most important:
1) Macro means attending to all of the mechanics that allow you to produce and increase your army's size and value (on paper). Do not mistake this for Economy above all else, which is just a means to an end when suitable.
2) If you don't scout or pressure your opponent they will make you pay for those blunders as they should. This is how the ladder works; it's also the reason I chose to use Green Tea. The objective of the trainer is not to learn how to sit back and become a macro god and hope the other guy isn't; it's to help you become aware of when your macro is slipping, why it's slipping, and to understand when you have the economic advantage or don't have it.
2a) Frank Lopez once said, "Never underestimate the other guy's greed"; take his advice. Zerg can be the greediest race in the game. [We] can stop all army production and just devote all larvae to harvesters, if you let us -- that's 12 drones and 2 overlords every 45 seconds (2hatch/2queen).
3) The AI is just a substitute; play against a real player whenever you can. I put a lot of work into making this a multiplayer map for that reason. The AI will always be handicapped by what Blizzard exposes to scripters and our ability to program it.
Finally, I humbly post my Toss vs Easy AI 3 gate expand as proof that you don't need to be amazing or cheese to beat the AI.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ACWfF.png)
Yes, I know it's pitiful. I'm still learning to play Protoss. The AI falls because I make the proper strategic decisions based off of seeing their opening, seeing what they sent to kill me, and applying some pressure so that they have to work really hard if they want to try and get that 3rd base up. Make them fight and you'll see that their Macro level doesn't stay that high either.
http://drop.sc/11623
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Damn i typed "gg" when he said that he have me on black list and it counted as loss for me lol
diamond x12 after first game vs medium
nice map i gonna play some more
@edit
oh and it didnt check the dont get supply blocked for more than 12s when I was 10/10 and pylon was ending(it was like 1-2s supply block) what kind of bug is this!
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I use this map to warm up and try things, i just love it, the green tea AI and low queu for terran production is awesome. plz do publish more maps in EU, this is getting great.
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Thank's for that Major. This is a great tool! I shall try easy, as I said I'm only just learning, and having the minerals and supply is basically the building blocks to move up in the SC2 world, as far as I see.
I've been taking what I've learned, on how to stop being nuked into normal AI and 1v1 Bronze. I can now beat hard AI every time, and won 4 out of 5 games online last night, got a little achievement for 3 in a row.
I didn't say thank you in my other posts, this made me feel a little ungrateful, I asked a lot with out saying how great this is. I really do love it. I'll try on easy
Thank's again!
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Once it starts cheating (@ medium) it becomes hard.
And here I was wondering why Easy felt too easy and Medium felt bloody impossible.
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Hi,is there an option to have alerts (Larva inject/ChronoBoost expired/Mule) on this map?As zerg its pretty hard for me to have perfect timing on injects without this .
Anyway,this map is pretty nice against a player,but i think the AI is not that great (Attacking almost everytime,with small pack of units).playing Zerg on this map is pretty much harder than the other races (Vs AI) because of that.
But great job anyway .
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On May 31 2011 02:08 Maeh wrote:Hi,is there an option to have alerts (Larva inject/ChronoBoost expired/Mule) on this map?As zerg its pretty hard for me to have perfect timing on injects without this . Anyway,this map is pretty nice against a player,but i think the AI is not that great (Attacking almost everytime,with small pack of units).playing Zerg on this map is pretty much harder than the other races (Vs AI) because of that. But great job anyway .
if u select medium AI, thats very hard blizzard AI maphacking. which means if it thinks it can kill u, it will attack. in any case its supposed to play like a real quickmatch
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Great map! Can you please update the Green Tea AI version on them, since 0.84 is already out?
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This is a great tool. I keep losing to the Easy AI, but at least I can see progress in my ability to macro while doing other things.
My main issue is that the GT Terran AI likes to blow up the rocks at my gold expo. Not a big deal, more of a GT issue.
Again great job _Major!
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EPT
