EPTPower Rank 04/02/2011 - Page 25
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friendbg
Bulgaria576 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
 And ya, still being in a Starleague helps a lot too. Also, it's important that you actually watch the games and not just cite stats. Jaedong's game vs Baby for instance was an absolutely sickening display of skill. Made me go :OOOOOOO. | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On May 04 2011 00:21 hacklebeast wrote: I don't understand why JD is a lock for number 1. The best people that JD beat (flash flash sea) are similar to the best people bisu beat (flash, JD, sea). Same number of losses, but bisu lost to good people (well person) and JD lost to great. Bisu won a playoff match for his team. Bisu won WL finals for his team, so his wins are on bigger stages that JD's Ro32. Bisu's team is doing better in proleauge (which matters very little I know, but it is something). Bisu won the head to head MU. The only thing JD has going for him over bisu is one extra win (10-2 compared to 9-2). He will also probably have a 2-0 vs reality, but its reality so not that inportant. I don't know why that is so much more impressive than bisu. You could make the argument that JD is a better player than Bisu, independent of records. I find that a difficult position to take considering he lost to bisu, but its possible. It is however certainly no "lock" I would add BaBy to the list of really good people JD beat, since arguably he is quite a bit better than Sea right now (especially if you consider the game in itself), and Fantasy too now that I think about it. So Jaedong definitely has a better "win" list. And he's in the MSL (as a result of beating the guy Bisu lost to). And he has a better record to stand on from last month. Bisu is great right now, and should definitely be high on the rank, #2 or #3 for sure, but I think something pretty extraordinary would have to happen in the next few days for him to be over JD. | ||
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Tempest[OEC]
United States417 Posts
On May 04 2011 00:34 friendbg wrote: the only reason bisu beat flash in the finals is because of the map. It was heavily P favoured. Remember he played flash twice after that on normal maps and what happened? He got crushed Theres no question that Aztec is a P-favored map but in no way were the maps they played on "normal". One map had only 2-3 games on it when they played including only the 2nd PvT and the other was 0-4 for Protoss in the MSL. Sure Bisu still lost those games and got outplayed but dont call those maps "normal". | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
I forgot about fantasy. so JD does have a little better wins, but that loss to great is too important to overlook. Shouldn't the best player only lose to other S classes? I don't think the win over fantasy is enough to propel him past bisu by leaps and bounds (because that win is the only think that JD has over Bisu). And bisu lost badly to flash twice, but he beat JD and flash badly as well. There wasn't a TBLS game that was close this month (admittedly I haven't seen the most recent one, but the LR seems to indicate a one sided affair). | ||
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
On May 04 2011 03:41 hacklebeast wrote: If the Ro32 is really worth that much, I hope to see grape on the list because he 2-0ed as well. Yes JD won the group that had Bisu in it, but Bisu won the WL playoffs that had JD in it. Not only is that one more important, but in only that one did Bisu and JD actually play. So when I said that JD only had a record over bisu, I was counting the fact that WL playoffs/finals carries more weight than the Ro32. I forgot about fantasy. so JD does have a little better wins, but that loss to great is too important to overlook. Shouldn't the best player only lose to other S classes? I don't think the win over fantasy is enough to propel him past bisu by leaps and bounds (because that win is the only think that JD has over Bisu). And bisu lost badly to flash twice, but he beat JD and flash badly as well. There wasn't a TBLS game that was close this month (admittedly I haven't seen the most recent one, but the LR seems to indicate a one sided affair). Bisu built FlaSh with a prepared strategy on quite an imbalanced map, then proceeded to lose 0-2 to him stupidly in MSL group stages. Oh, Bisu beat Jaedong in his best matchup, they trade wins quite often if you haven't noticed. The only difference though is that Jaedong is much more well rounded, is actually in the Starleagues still, and is up 2-0 against one of the greatest players ever this month. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On May 03 2011 22:17 Harem wrote: I hope that you enjoy Disneyland for this travesty then. You were much cuter as a Zergling. | ||
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dani_caliKorea
730 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On May 03 2011 22:17 Harem wrote: I hope that you enjoy Disneyland for this travesty then. Seconded. Killer for #1! | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
On May 04 2011 03:41 hacklebeast wrote: If the Ro32 is really worth that much, I hope to see grape on the list because he 2-0ed as well. Yes JD won the group that had Bisu in it, but Bisu won the WL playoffs that had JD in it. Not only is that one more important, but in only that one did Bisu and JD actually play. So when I said that JD only had a record over bisu, I was counting the fact that WL playoffs/finals carries more weight than the Ro32. I forgot about fantasy. so JD does have a little better wins, but that loss to great is too important to overlook. Shouldn't the best player only lose to other S classes? I don't think the win over fantasy is enough to propel him past bisu by leaps and bounds (because that win is the only think that JD has over Bisu). And bisu lost badly to flash twice, but he beat JD and flash badly as well. There wasn't a TBLS game that was close this month (admittedly I haven't seen the most recent one, but the LR seems to indicate a one sided affair). Ugh... I knew that loss to great would come back to haunt JD on this power rank lol That game came down to poor scouting. That's it. JD's ling micro is still superb and his ZvZ seems pretty intact to me. The loss to great came down to great sending his overlord in an uncommon scouting patter. It wasn't like JD was just outplayed. I can see your argument, but honestly, I think the big reason JD is ahead of Bisu now, is because JD did what Bisu couldn't, and that was beat Flash twice. Moreover, Jaedong's loss to Bisu was an exceptional display of skill by both players, with Bisu just being better in that match-up. I think the general consensus is that JD lost that game because Bisu's corsairs > Jaedong's scourge. (Correct me if I'm wrong )Finally, you're right, the MSL ro32 isn't a big stage. But I think this was an exception given that the 3 best players were placed in a single group. Further, I think Bisu was in a position to win his first game, but didn't adjust his build after the failed proxy rax. Also I would argue that s2 played a greater role than Bisu in SKT WL finals victory. (Of course, they only got there because Bisu beat JD the week before, so take that argument how u want.) I can see your arguments, I really can, but I just can't see Jaedong being marked down for one loss to great. | ||
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VGhost
United States3621 Posts
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Gara
Canada435 Posts
1.  JaedongJaedong has simply been a beast, reaching the 200 PL wins mark, beating Flash twice in a convincing fashion in both PL and the MSL, and sweeping his MSL group. KESPA agrees, rewarding Jaedong with a #1 KESPA ranking, which he last occupied in January 2010. In light of Flash's lukewarm performance in April and Bisu's elimination from the MSL, it is clear that 2.  BisuBisu may have been knocked out of the MSL, but his amazing PL performance recently combined with the SWL wins over Flash and Jaedong should earn him second. In fact, Flash is the only player that Bisu has lost to since the beginning of April. Bisu's strong multi-tasking could not overcome the Terminator, but he is still comfortably dominating everyone else. 3.  FlashFlash is still Flash. While his record in April/May isn't fantastic (6-4), his only losses are to Bisu, Jaedong, and a surprisingly resurgent BeSt. Added to that, he is still in the MSL. Part of the problem is KT's mediocre performance in PL, which has prevented Flash from showing his potential in commanding ace game wins. 4. HydraHydra has been doing well, although not amazing. Losing both games against SKT hurts him, although he is still in the MSL and doing well against Stork. Definitely one of the strongest players for Hite, although his ace performance leaves a bit to be desired. (5-2) 5. Neo.G SoulkeySoulkey has been slowly and steadily rising through the ranks of Woongjin over the last few months, but April has really been his breakout month. Going 5-2 and handily eliminating Fantasy from the MSL are both notable achievements, and he shows no sign of slowing down. 6. firebatheroFirebathero has continued to perform for ACE, now that WL is over and ACE once again has a fighting chance - and what a fight they have put up! Firebathero's vP, historically his weakest matchup, has suddenly become his best at 5-2 since the end of March, with his only losses coming from his elimination from the MSL at the hands of former teammate Stork. 7. MindMind has been excelling in the PvT matchup, going 4-0, but 0-2 in TvT. He is definitely playing some of the best Starcraft of his life, and may soon break the 2200 ELO mark and his current peak of 2199. 8. LightLight is doing well since the beginning of April (5-2) with his only losses from Hydra. Another one of Woongjin's solid but unremarkable players who has been playing very well recently. 9. IrisIris is on an incredible roll in PL, going 4-0 with an ace win over great, but it remains to be seen whether he can maintain the momentum that he has built up. Worth keeping an eye on. 10. StorkMaybe this is just fanboyism, but I think Stork still deserves a Power Rank. Going 5-3 isn't terrible, with his losses coming from Mind, whose TvP has been very good, Hydra, and Alone. He hasn't had a chance to really prove himself in Proleague as January has been mad trolling again recently. CBNC: ZerO - Performing well, but nothing impressive. Wins against mostly A-Class players.Fantasy - How far you have fallen since your KESPA #1 ranking...great - Being eliminated from the MSL at the hands of Hyuk hurts, although winning the ace against STX certainly helps. Maybe January isn't entirely crazy?Leta - Leta is looking somewhat back in form and doing well in the MSL, although his PL performance leaves much to be desired. | ||
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
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Musou
1375 Posts
On May 04 2011 04:36 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: Also I gotta say everyone in the Live Thread was saying FlaSh was unlucky etc, but would that one irridiate really saved him? Jaedong isn't some scrub, he'd split the mutas quickly and still be able to have won with his current units. Isn't that just speculation? According to JD himself, he didn't even know Flash irradiated his mutas: + Show Spoiler + The game was an unexpectedly easy win. Some games will end quickly, but others are drawn-out struggles. I don't know why, but this game just happened to be short and sweet. I didn't even see the first muta get irradiated, so I didn't know about it until I watched the replay afterward. I saw the second irradiate, but I really didn't even catch the first one. That kind of makes me think if Flash had gotten a full-hp muta that it would have done more damage. Yes, JD is known for beastly splits. I've seen him split 6 ways in under a second before. However, he also isn't always watching his muta while microing them, which is likely why he didn't even know about the irradiate. We don't know how the game would have turned out had Flash gotten a full hp irradiate off, but it could have changed the game greatly. | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On May 04 2011 03:56 dani_caliKorea wrote: lol at Hacklebeast. Please stop your campaign for Bisu #1. Not even SKT fans agree with you. /agreed swl playoffs actually carries as much weight as WCG korea finals (ie nothing), its the SPL finals that actually mean anything knowing who you are playing against to snipe isn't hard (bisu only had to practice against jaedong and flash in ace), moreover since bisu can rely on his team. jaedong and flash had to practice all 3 respective matchups since they couldn't rely on their teams campaign for bisu having the easiest month, #5 power rank | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5606 Posts
On May 04 2011 05:11 Musou wrote: However, he also isn't always watching his muta while microing them I somehow doubt that! No, of course you've got a good point. Flash was very unlucky. Jaedong still played like the beast he is though. | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On May 04 2011 05:11 Musou wrote: Isn't that just speculation? According to JD himself, he didn't even know Flash irradiated his mutas: + Show Spoiler + The game was an unexpectedly easy win. Some games will end quickly, but others are drawn-out struggles. I don't know why, but this game just happened to be short and sweet. I didn't even see the first muta get irradiated, so I didn't know about it until I watched the replay afterward. I saw the second irradiate, but I really didn't even catch the first one. That kind of makes me think if Flash had gotten a full-hp muta that it would have done more damage. Yes, JD is known for beastly splits. I've seen him split 6 ways in under a second before. However, he also isn't always watching his muta while microing them, which is likely why he didn't even know about the irradiate. We don't know how the game would have turned out had Flash gotten a full hp irradiate off, but it could have changed the game greatly. I just rewatched that scene, Flash had 8 Marines left when the first Irradiate went off, only 5 of those marines in firing range. Maybe JD didn't watch at that second, but if you ever watched a first person VOD, you know that he doesn't spend more than 1-2 seconds away from muta microing. I doubt that it would have changed anything, JD had 6 or 7 mutas there, and 10 zerglings ran into Flashs base 5 seconds after that irradiate, while Flash had only 2 Rax pumping Marines. Imo, there is no way that Flash could have held that, he simply choose the wrong build and executed it poorly. | ||
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Musou
1375 Posts
On May 04 2011 06:00 Elroi wrote: I somehow doubt that! No, of course you've got a good point. Flash was very unlucky. Jaedong still played like the beast he is though. Agreed. JD is most definitely a beast. It's actually true that he doesn't watch his muta the entire time he's microing though. During the Hyungjoon becomes a progamer series, when JD was teaching HJ how to muta micro, he mentioned, "Do you only focus on your muta when microing?" It's also pretty evident if you watch his FPVODs that he'll jump to check on other stuff in between volleys. It's only for a split second to a second or so, but that's plenty. On May 04 2011 06:03 Nesto wrote: I just rewatched that scene, Flash had 8 Marines left when the first Irradiate went off, only 5 of those marines in firing range. Maybe JD didn't watch at that second, but if you ever watched a first person VOD, you know that he doesn't spend more than 1-2 seconds away from muta microing. I doubt that it would have changed anything, JD had 6 or 7 mutas there, and 10 zerglings ran into Flashs base 5 seconds after that irradiate, while Flash had only 2 Rax pumping Marines. Imo, there is no way that Flash could have held that, he simply choose the wrong build and executed it poorly. It's very likely that JD would have won regardless, but 1-2 seconds is a lot of damage when you also add in the time that it takes for the muta to fly out of the irradiate radius. It's got a 2 hex splash range, so combine 1-2 sec of not seeing the damage with another second for reaction splitting and a second or two for the muta to fly out of irradiate range and it'll add up to 40-50 damage, which is a pretty significant portion of damage to all of the muta. Also remember that a proper SCV drill can hold lings quite well and block them from ever getting to the marines. It would mean Flash would have to play flawlessly, but it's possible he could have held it. Also, I wouldn't say picking the wrong muta to irradiate is bad execution. It's really just luck when muta are stacked like that. You don't really get to choose which one to hit. | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On May 04 2011 06:15 Musou wrote: Agreed. JD is most definitely a beast. It's actually true that he doesn't watch his muta the entire time he's microing though. During the Hyungjoon becomes a progamer series, when JD was teaching HJ how to muta micro, he mentioned, "Do you only focus on your muta when microing?" It's also pretty evident if you watch his FPVODs that he'll jump to check on other stuff in between volleys. It's only for a split second to a second or so, but that's plenty. It's very likely that JD would have won regardless, but 1-2 seconds is a lot of damage when you also add in the time that it takes for the muta to fly out of the irradiate radius. It's got a 2 hex splash range, so combine 1-2 sec of not seeing the damage with another second for reaction splitting and a second or two for the muta to fly out of irradiate range and it'll add up to 40-50 damage, which is a pretty significant portion of damage to all of the muta. Also remember that a proper SCV drill can hold lings quite well and block them from ever getting to the marines. It would mean Flash would have to play flawlessly, but it's possible he could have held it. Also, I wouldn't say picking the wrong muta to irradiate is bad execution. It's really just luck when muta are stacked like that. You don't really get to choose which one to hit. irradiate does like 7 damage per second? 40-50 damage would be like 6-7 seconds? that seems quite a lot for a progamer like Jaedong... and even if his mutas were idling that long - that just means he would have killed even more of those few marines that were left for Flash. And I didn't say that this irradiate was bad execution, the overstimming and positioning of the marines was bad on Flashs part. | ||
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Keone
United States812 Posts
Guys. Seriously? Irradiate doing damage is the MINOR part. The MAIN part is that it forces the Zerg to retreat and stop attacking by splitting his mutas and leaving the scene. You guys amaze me, do you ever play Terran??? Against a good zerg, NO TERRAN expects Irradiate to do a lot of damage. It has one main purpose, and that's to stop the effectiveness of Mutalisk harass, because they can't clump anymore. The other one, if you're lucky, is that it does significant damage to the mutas, but that's only against noob zergs. If that irradiate had worked, several things would have happened. 1. because JD would have had to split the mutas AWAY from the Terran base, he couldn't pressure the attack anymore. His lings wouldn't have been able to run up at that timing because the marines would have made tomato soup out of them. 2. If JD for some reason decided to split the mutas in any direction apart from directly away from the base, some would have died to turrets, because Flash had 3 in his nat and more in his main. 3. Flash wouldn't have had to pull the 4 marines out of the bunker in front, which he ONLY DID because the Irradiate fail. This allowed the zergling runby. And before someone stupid says something about how the runby would have succeeded anyway, the point of the placement was that the bunker can kill the lings on the ramp while SCV's block their path. 4. Finally, even if JD had quickly removed the irradiated one, and returned, this would have allowed Flash exactly what he wanted: TIME. Irradiate is, again, not used to KILL mutalisks (well, except one), it's made to PREVENT their attacks. This would have allowed Flash another round of marines, and time to start rebuilding or repairing his turrets. I can't believe the people on TL who are saying how "dumb" Flash was, and act as if they knew exactly why he did what. This is Flash. Don't insult him by trying to say you know strategy better than him. He had a game plan and it failed in a manner that no one has ever seen an irradiate fail. Seriously, when's the last time you've seen that? I don't think I've ever seen an irradiate like that before, and I'm sure Flash had rarely, if ever, had that kind of situation, and he would not have expected that to come up in a game VS JD. His game plan was solid. Having said all that, JD's game plan was solid and his execution was flawless. He did everything exactly right, and I'm sure he didn't mean to end it that quickly, but he's JD, he will destroy if given the slightest chance. Everything JD did was perfect and nothing but full credit to the guy. The only thing I'm trying to say is, stop this "Flash never could have won because of his crappy build order etc. etc.". That's nonsense. Flash knew what he was doing and it failed in dramatic fashion. When's the last time you've EVER seen a progamer so surprised? (seriously now.) Even Flash's twitch madness was nothing compared to the reaction we got yesterday. Having said all that, JD should be at #1 in this next PR. I don't think there's anyone who disagrees with that. As for #2... I have no clue, because Bisu dropped out of Starleagues (what a surprise). And I think Sea in the past has proven that SPL alone is not enough for a good PR ranking. | ||
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