• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:03
CEST 15:03
KST 22:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 712 users

Power Rank 04/04/2010 - Page 10

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Tianx
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1196 Posts
April 07 2010 08:21 GMT
#181
[B]strange, its almost as if something is *gasp* imbalanced in favor of terran.


this is a new and interesting point please tell us more at great length and with liberal use of caps lock
Intrigue: "as i've said to many others your troubles in life may be directly correlated to your dirty protoss icon"
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 07 2010 08:47 GMT
#182
Zergs have such a short memory. Last year we had two ZvZ finals in one season. Naturally the maps had to be changed after that travesty. So if the maps are really as bad as people are saying I won't accept anything less than two TvT finals as proof.
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2267 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 12:19:45
April 07 2010 11:46 GMT
#183
On April 07 2010 16:07 karlkarlson wrote:
i know you flash-hugging nerds don't wanna hear this, but isn't it wierd that absolutely MEDIOCRE terran play is demolishing zergs right now? look at the last rounds of the MSL or OSL ( kwanro v fantasy , fake yellow v hiya )


Only answer for such a trolly, zerg-biased argument is reversed trolly question: how it's possible, that absolutely MEDIOCRE zerg like CLAM could ever win a league?

Becouse of bad maps, nothing else.

Ok, now serious. Kwanro played very bad in game 2 against Fanta, that's why he was punished by fanta bunkers. That all lurker stuff was very risky.
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
April 07 2010 11:50 GMT
#184
It's quite absurd to see Flash at #1 when he can't even beat Hyvaa. I expect him to drop a lot on the PR next month.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
POWEROUTAGE
Profile Joined February 2010
Singapore884 Posts
April 07 2010 12:01 GMT
#185
On April 07 2010 20:50 Holgerius wrote:
It's quite absurd to see Flash at #1 when he can't even beat Hyvaa. I expect him to drop a lot on the PR next month.


5/5
+ Show Spoiler +
Can't wait for people to take this seriously.
Stats. The new standard bearer of the protoss.
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
April 07 2010 14:43 GMT
#186
@hitthat: You are right, but Fantasy just 14CCed and got away with it. That's the whole story to the game. Kwanro played quite good, but there is not much a Zerg can do atm against 14CC so he went all-in.

Also, someone should tell our #2 that M&M is bad against Toss.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 07 2010 15:51 GMT
#187
Wow flash lost 20 ELO points from 1 loss, and gains what 1-2 points avarage when he wins?
I hope he can break 2500 :D
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
cokencheese
Profile Joined October 2009
Philippines748 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 16:58:42
April 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#188
I really do hope that Zerg is capable of squeezing out some kind of new build or strategy to combat Terran.

The way I see it, Terran as a whole is easily the most balanced and flexible when it comes to strategies, builds, and timings. Zerg is less so mostly because of the handicap imposed by the bases - drones - army balancing act. As for Protoss, the race looks to be pretty much comatose at this point.

Just look at how many Terran bonjwas there have been and how they all revolutionized Terran play. What I'm scared of is that now that mechanical skill is nearing the plateau, the race with the most options will always be favored, and Flash will just dominate everyone forever.

EDIT: Also, maps.
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
April 07 2010 17:04 GMT
#189
Flash #1?
He just lost to Hyvaa!
He cant even accomplish a 90% winrate!
he doesnt deserve #1
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
April 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#190
wow Flash sure has good fans.

One loss and they all start jumping ship.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 07 2010 18:02 GMT
#191
[image loading]
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 21:35:29
April 07 2010 21:34 GMT
#192
On April 07 2010 13:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Goddamn you completely twisted every word I said. I never said Nada sucks. I said Flash's streak of domination overshadows Nada simply because it's a matter of domination. No matchup is utterly dominated when you lose six games in a row to one of your rivals and some other guys. It's good when you have nada's record, but it isn't bonjwa like. You don't just expect him to win every matchup when he drops six in a row, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how many months are in between or who you're playing, because bonjwa-esque makes no reservations for "who."


ASDF WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK OF FUCKS?

NaDa's statistically strongest match-up is not "bonjwa" like?

I don't care what stipulations you have. I could bring up how your stats on everyone except maybe skyhigh are irrelevant as they don't pertain to the period we're talking about (where skyhigh is 1-1 with him, sniping him in a third set after he beat two other opponents), but that's shallow thinking. Flash's entire career is comparable to the guy you picked's glory period. His hot streak is far more impressive. Playing more games isn't a detriment, all it does is further prove consistency, especially considering Flash got put up against every "best" TvTer multiple times during his run, so being all indignant about how Nada had to play the guys that could hang with him is ridiculous. Flash faced every guy anyone thought could handle him, and proved they couldn't.


And yet you'll ignore NaDa's 85% dominance in 2001-2002 and ignore the fact that NaDa's "glory period" of 74% lifetime wins is actually of comparable length to Flash's entire career?

And where do you come off thinking that I ever said playing more games is a detriment? Playing fewer games during a time period of comparable length is being held against NaDa, not the other way around. ELO provides a better measure when sample sizes are larger.

Flash has faced all the best TvTers, this is true, but he doesn't have winning records over all of them. As you pointed out, SkyHigh is 1-1 vs Flash recently. Leta is 1-1 vs Flash in the past 12 months, 1-0 over Flash in the past 6 months.

I'd love to see Flash face off in Leta or SkyHigh in a bo3 right now. Probably Flash would win (he's better), but there's no guarantee.

Being bonjwa means that you remove any and all dispute that you are the best. That is not the same as being literally unbeatable.

All of this aside, you can't explain six losses in a row. You can't. That proves that, for whatever reason, Nada was very vulnerable during the period you showed in his TvT. He may have still been obviously the best, but tons of people have been the "best" in a matchup but not dominated it to an obscene extent. We're talking unrivaled.


Okay, fine, you're going to be an utter dick because I just chose the time period up until when NaDa reached TvT ELO peak rather than the time period that best reflects how fucking close to unbeatable NaDa really was.

2003 was already 2 years into NaDa's career.

Here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?type=players&id=147&part=games&vs=T&league=any&map=any&from_year=2001&from_month=3&from_day=3&to_year=2003&to_month=1&to_day=3&action=Update

For the first 22 months of his career he maintained 85% wins, only once dropping two games in a row.

Qui9t being the kind of douche who just clicks on the link and looks for any possible tidbit of information that you can use to weasel an argument.

Fact: NaDa's peak form dominance was statistically comparable in terms of win percentage to Flash's peak form dominance in terms of win percentage.

Fact: NaDa maintained a lifetime record with comparable win percentage over a comparable length of time to what Flash has now.

Fact: Anyone who has been following this game long enough (like me) to have seen NaDa play at his peak should readily see the similarities in how NaDa used to thoroughly dominate his Terran opponents, always staying one step ahead. Faster, sharper, more perfect. No dependence on creating superior builds, but perfectly capable of creating new builds all the same. That describes both Flash and NaDa.

Difference: NaDa entered progaming vastly above and beyond the competition. He was bonjwa from the get-go. Flash rose to dominance and is at his peak now. Flash also has a higher sample of games behind his name. Both of these things help account for his much higher ELO peak.




What I find hard to believe is that you act like being compared to NaDa (might I reiterate: in NaDa's statistically strongest match-up) is a bad thing.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 07 2010 21:55 GMT
#193
On April 08 2010 02:14 SuperArc wrote:
wow Flash sure has good fans.

One loss and they all start jumping ship.


Just want to provoke?
Ofcourse there are some fans who aren't true fans but rather just cheer when he wins..


According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 07 2010 23:20 GMT
#194
Goddamn Mortality. Every single post you have makes huge assumptions of me like "being compared to Nada is a bad thing." All I did was point out ere in your judgement and, fuck, I even edited my post to HELP your argument and you go batshit on me.

Flash is 1-1 with Skyhigh and Leta, okay, that's reasonable, but he didn't lose six straight. Plain and simple. 70% is amazing but you can't honestly tell me it's dominating when he loses six games in a row. It's just not reasonable. The best, sure, but six games in a row is just painful to look at.

Nada's first year was apparently the third greatest matchup though, behind Oov's 18-0 of Zerg and Flash 22-0 of Terran. It's a bit disrespectful of me to say Nada isn't as dominant because I wasn't watching back then, but when you just cite statistics at me and Flash is clearly superior on streaks, winrate, and at the very least similar in levels of competition, how am I supposed to look at it? All Flash has to do is keep this up for another year before he absolutely dominates Nada's success.

I guess that's why the commentators were chiming about "above bonjwa," though. I bet it sells well.

of course then he goes mech on match point. I don't know what to do with you Flash.
Remember Violet.
Kashll
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1117 Posts
April 08 2010 08:44 GMT
#195
On April 06 2010 05:55 Musoeun wrote:
Wasn't Iris typically considered a top-tier TvT player as well? Although Iris now... ugh.


<3 Iris

(I just wish he didn't suck right now.. his breakout lately gave me hope... until fucking kwanro 0-2 to 3-2ed him >:{ )
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
April 08 2010 09:49 GMT
#196
Zero?
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
April 08 2010 09:54 GMT
#197
Zero?
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
April 08 2010 10:15 GMT
#198
On April 08 2010 18:49 ThunderGod wrote:
Zero?


On April 08 2010 18:54 ThunderGod wrote:
Zero?


Unfortunately, two times zero is still zero.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-08 10:39:36
April 08 2010 10:38 GMT
#199
On April 08 2010 08:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Goddamn Mortality. Every single post you have makes huge assumptions of me like "being compared to Nada is a bad thing." All I did was point out ere in your judgement and, fuck, I even edited my post to HELP your argument and you go batshit on me.

Flash is 1-1 with Skyhigh and Leta, okay, that's reasonable, but he didn't lose six straight. Plain and simple. 70% is amazing but you can't honestly tell me it's dominating when he loses six games in a row. It's just not reasonable. The best, sure, but six games in a row is just painful to look at.

Nada's first year was apparently the third greatest matchup though, behind Oov's 18-0 of Zerg and Flash 22-0 of Terran. It's a bit disrespectful of me to say Nada isn't as dominant because I wasn't watching back then, but when you just cite statistics at me and Flash is clearly superior on streaks, winrate, and at the very least similar in levels of competition, how am I supposed to look at it? All Flash has to do is keep this up for another year before he absolutely dominates Nada's success.

I guess that's why the commentators were chiming about "above bonjwa," though. I bet it sells well.

of course then he goes mech on match point. I don't know what to do with you Flash.


Well, a double SL win and 6 golds in total >>> any streaks or elo records imo
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 08 2010 10:49 GMT
#200
On April 08 2010 19:38 Elroi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 08:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Goddamn Mortality. Every single post you have makes huge assumptions of me like "being compared to Nada is a bad thing." All I did was point out ere in your judgement and, fuck, I even edited my post to HELP your argument and you go batshit on me.

Flash is 1-1 with Skyhigh and Leta, okay, that's reasonable, but he didn't lose six straight. Plain and simple. 70% is amazing but you can't honestly tell me it's dominating when he loses six games in a row. It's just not reasonable. The best, sure, but six games in a row is just painful to look at.

Nada's first year was apparently the third greatest matchup though, behind Oov's 18-0 of Zerg and Flash 22-0 of Terran. It's a bit disrespectful of me to say Nada isn't as dominant because I wasn't watching back then, but when you just cite statistics at me and Flash is clearly superior on streaks, winrate, and at the very least similar in levels of competition, how am I supposed to look at it? All Flash has to do is keep this up for another year before he absolutely dominates Nada's success.

I guess that's why the commentators were chiming about "above bonjwa," though. I bet it sells well.

of course then he goes mech on match point. I don't know what to do with you Flash.


Well, a double SL win and 6 golds in total >>> any streaks or elo records imo

Did you even read their posts? They're arguing about TvT, not who has the most medals. Personally I find Flash's TvT dominance more impressive than Nada's. However I'm also very biased.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
RotterdaM1411
ComeBackTV 1352
IndyStarCraft 417
WardiTV179
CranKy Ducklings179
Rex126
3DClanTV 81
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1411
IndyStarCraft 417
Rex 126
BRAT_OK 73
ProTech68
MindelVK 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50330
Horang2 7754
Hyuk 2257
EffOrt 1671
Barracks 1085
BeSt 800
Larva 742
firebathero 530
Soulkey 505
Hyun 438
[ Show more ]
Stork 429
Last 285
Rush 228
Shine 103
Dewaltoss 63
Sharp 59
sorry 50
sas.Sziky 46
sSak 43
Movie 37
Shinee 36
Free 35
zelot 23
Icarus 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
yabsab 10
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
qojqva3196
XcaliburYe543
League of Legends
febbydoto3
Counter-Strike
sgares317
oskar196
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor318
Other Games
B2W.Neo1708
Beastyqt757
Hui .313
DeMusliM235
Fuzer 172
QueenE39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH288
• tFFMrPink 19
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3731
• WagamamaTV932
League of Legends
• Nemesis2324
• Jankos1229
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
57m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4h 57m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.