Power Rank 04/04/2010

I beleive both Sea and Light would be able to take on Jaedong in his current form and win convincingly.

On April 04 2010 05:29 Aesop wrote:
Nice PR. What I would like to see is a comment about Hwasin in CBNC or I would have loved seeing him on the rank.

Both the facts but also the "spirit" count for him. Facts are that he's a dual leaguer, having already passed his Ro32 group in the MSL: So he's Ro16 in the MSL and won against Movie in a good match in OSL Ro16. The spirit thing is that I feel Hwasin is doing something different this season - I cannot quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be more determination than usual.

So, what do you think?

On April 04 2010 05:31 Bifur wrote:
Jaedong is following Savior's way. He has started to slump after the culmination of success...Farewell, Jaedong...

On April 04 2010 05:59 o[twist] wrote:
hwasin beat movie, zero (on PR last time), and jangbi (on CNBC) in the individual leagues so far, 3-0. maybe not quite as impressive as baby (stork, jaedong, july) but quite good.

On April 04 2010 06:26 MuffinDude wrote:
Yea.... Jaedong is a bit too high. He had a terrible month like stork and he only moves down 2 spot while stork 3??

On April 04 2010 06:41 tedster wrote:
I really, really feel that Leta's position is undeserved. Even without a great WL performance I would have to put someone like Hwasin or Zero in that spot for showing much better games in crunchtime and very few depressing losses.

On April 04 2010 05:45 7mk wrote:


troll?

On April 04 2010 05:29 Aesop wrote:
Nice PR. What I would like to see is a comment about Hwasin in CBNC or I would have loved seeing him on the rank.

Both the facts but also the "spirit" count for him. Facts are that he's a dual leaguer, having already passed his Ro32 group in the MSL: So he's Ro16 in the MSL and won against Movie in a good match in OSL Ro16. The spirit thing is that I feel Hwasin is doing something different this season - I cannot quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be more determination than usual.

So, what do you think?

On April 04 2010 12:10 n.DieJokes wrote:
I don't think it's fair to say JD's play is developing more and more holes. He fixed his questionable ZvZ and his ZvP is still pure murder. It's just ZvT which was an issue last month anyway so more accurately JD is recovering. He said in his last interview he likes the new maps which makes me suspect he's winning a lot in practice again. Still I will begrudgingly agree with the 1-4. Wish Hwasin was mentioned though

On April 04 2010 04:12 SuperArc wrote:
So the decision to rank Light/Sea > Jaedong is because Jaedong is likely to have a worse April than those two?

On April 04 2010 12:22 TwoToneTerran wrote:


When did he fix his ZvZ? I mean all due credit for a streak but Roro Shine July Hogil and a slumping Yarnc have been terrible at ZvZ for awhile.

On April 04 2010 11:01 Romantic wrote:

Just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them a troll.

On April 04 2010 20:02 7mk wrote:


There's lots of people in this thread who disagree with me, that one just seemed so ridiculous that it seemed like it was only written to provoke someone.

Also that post was from the guy who made this thread.
So please dont assume I'm one of those idiots who use the word troll whenever they see something they dont like.

On April 04 2010 14:15 petered wrote:
I appreciate these power ranks, but they many times don't make any sort of consistent sense. Like, fantasy was 5 last month, and then doesn't have very many games at all this last month, but is still in both leagues, and people above him don't perform well...and he drops out entirely.

On April 04 2010 18:37 Plexa wrote:
Baby is literally the only person who deserved his rank, the reason he didn't get higher is that he could just be another hyuk or shine. However, his play indicates otherwise but we'll have to wait and see.

No one else deserved what they got this month - people saying sea doesn't deserve #3 are completely justified in saying that. The issue is no one stepped up and said "oh hey I deserve #3" instead they dropped games and fell out of leagues. Sea and Light got their ranks through everyone else simultaneously sucking. I would be far happier if this rank was just 10 Flashes because thats the only ranking that can be justified.

On April 04 2010 23:38 disciple wrote:
actually from TaekBangLeeSsang, Jaedong is the one to drop the most to the OSL prelims (it took Bisu 4 years to return to the qualifiers for example). Its that he is winning the whole thing everytime he makes it to the Ro8

On April 05 2010 01:23 Mortality wrote:
I feel like the Jaedong/Flash relationship is starting to in some respects mirror July/iloveoov.

July was actually the player for whom the term bonjwa was originally coined (by his fans, of course), but ultimately the bonjwas got recognized as Boxer, NaDa, Oov, Savior. Over a 6 season period, July appeared in the OSL finals 4 times and had strong showings even when he didn't make it that far. Ultimately, Oov was just more "unbeatable."

On April 04 2010 21:49 Heimatloser wrote:
lol @ leta
so beating flash once in a bo1 puts you on powerrank these days?

On April 04 2010 17:45 Wings wrote:
I loved reading your Flash description, completely agree.
Flash is undeniably the greatest player of all time.

(i'm not using the B-word here so don't get all riled up, I know how some of you are.)

I know JD fans would hate this but personally I think Baby deserves to be above JD, considering how Baby beat JD 3 TIMES IN A ROW. I mean, can ANYONE claim to have a feat like that, apart from, maybe, Flash? Also, he is in stellar form in the individual leagues. As much as I don't like seeing a name like "Baby" high in the progaming world, that little adolescent teen has skills... I wonder how he compares to the original child prodigy Flash?

I was hoping Hwasin would be on the CNBC, at the very least. I know it's absolutely nothing new that Hwasin makes the Ro16, but goddamn, it's his 10th consecutive time, he 2-0'd his group. I'd say the only two reliable things right now are the Red Sniper advancing to the Ro16, and Flash winning...

On April 05 2010 02:15 MrMoose wrote:


Beating Jaedong 3x in a row:

fantasy did it. (proleague finals/Bacchus OSL)

edit: so did forGG (Arena MSL)

so did Hwasin (proleague '08/Arena MSL) - 4x actually

so did Casy - 4x actually

On April 05 2010 02:34 SuperArc wrote:


all terrans? lol

On April 05 2010 02:44 MrMoose wrote:


i was just going through his game list 1 matchup at a time

Stork has actually beaten Jaedong in their last 4 games

On April 05 2010 03:01 n.DieJokes wrote:

This isn't actually true, JD 2-1 him in WCG to win 10k; it's just not in TLPD

On April 05 2010 03:05 MrMoose wrote:

damn. I was so proud of myself.
was it LWW or WLW because if it's the former, Stork still gets his 3 in a row.

On April 04 2010 21:49 Heimatloser wrote:
lol @ leta
so beating flash once in a bo1 puts you on powerrank these days?

On April 05 2010 04:24 Sadistx wrote:


Not just beating flash, but AK-ing the strongest WL team.

On April 04 2010 04:16 vaMpYr wrote:
light really dont deserve so high rank . my god ..
sea is better than light for sure and easy .
kal should be higher , same for baby .
jaedong spot is discutable , he played beautiful level against Roro and hyuk .


"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. "

THIS is very unfair to jaedong .

the accomplishements of jaedong are differents from flash , but not weaker .
he manage to win 3 2 from 0 2 in a OSL final against the top terran at the time and this terran had an invincible strategy against zerg .
he manage to win flash during his top form dont care of the poweroutage thing .
he has the crasiest , the more unreal record in SC history . he had 80% ratio in zvz , THE match up which its the most difficult to do it .
he had more titles than flash , ( more OSLs , more MSLs , WCG , seoul esport festival .. )
he has really good stats on proleague since 2006 . i dont think flash has better stats on proleague overall .

.

flash IS the best right now , there is no doubt about that . but saying that he has become better than jaedong could ever be is really really unfair to jaedong

On April 05 2010 09:36 Beachac wrote:


Lol this is hilarious fanboism or trolling. Flash is accomplishing what jaedong never did. If you can't see that, you're blind.

He beat flash in the MSL finals and you DON'T care about the power outage? you're right, the power outage had no effect on the game at all.

He has the most unreal record? Flash's record and win percentage is way better and the gap is just widening.

Zvz is the hardest matchup? LOL.
LOL

Titles don't determine the skill of the player. Flash entered the scene after Jaedong but has recently took shape into the monster he is now. Titles accomplishments can't be measured accurately because there are way too many factors to account for.



Funny thing, that's exactly what he's become.

(I am a flash fan, but I'm not biased to the point where I defend the player who is clearly not better)

On April 04 2010 18:37 Plexa wrote:
Baby is literally the only person who deserved his rank, the reason he didn't get higher is that he could just be another hyuk or shine. However, his play indicates otherwise but we'll have to wait and see.

No one else deserved what they got this month - people saying sea doesn't deserve #3 are completely justified in saying that. The issue is no one stepped up and said "oh hey I deserve #3" instead they dropped games and fell out of leagues. Sea and Light got their ranks through everyone else simultaneously sucking. I would be far happier if this rank was just 10 Flashes because thats the only ranking that can be justified.

"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. "

On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE

look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show.

predictions:

flash is going to win everything this year:

MSL, OSL, and KT will take the starleagues.

( MSL, OSL will have TvT finals )

terrans will dominate for the next cycle.

i fucking hate starcraft.

On April 05 2010 07:01 KwarK wrote:
This seemed a very weird PR but I can't fault it. I wracked my brains to try and think who is actually playing decently these days and still couldn't fill 2-9 with any confidence. The only other player who is consistently impressing me these days is Baby but I can't put him much higher than you did. Light is a bit dubious after his humiliation at the hands of PerfectMan (I know I wrote a defence of Light in the OSL news but even so, PerfectMan is the worst progamer). Guess I'll let it slide. One thing to note though is that Stork's play hasn't been that impressive lately. He's getting by because everyone is playing badly but still, he's lost something and that makes me want him ranked low.

On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:


p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer.

Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now.

On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:


p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer.

Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now.

On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE

look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show.

On April 05 2010 19:09 Ryo wrote:
In the last 7 matches he's played, Sea has only lost to one guy - Flash. So he definitely deserves to be where he is. Light's form on the other hand is dropping...

On April 05 2010 18:24 Severedevil wrote:

Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.)

Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted.

On April 05 2010 19:21 Plexa wrote:

Agreed, but Light's March was still better than Sea's since you have to assume that Sea would have won the same matches as light did for him to place as high. With light you actually know he did it lol.

On April 04 2010 05:30 o[twist] wrote:
Sea way too high, sorry
add Hwasin to CNBC, he is killing in individual leagues. might even replace Leta with him much as i love Leta

On April 05 2010 18:24 Severedevil wrote:

Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.)

Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted.

On April 06 2010 01:18 Draconizard wrote:


Yes, people don't put enough weight on the importance of the maps. Really, the skill gap between those progamers who are supposedly the best and those who are just middling is small enough that variation in map balance is more than enough to allow the latter group to topple the former.

Perhaps there was a time when the gap was wide enough for those at the top to be able to overcome such differences, but it has become plain that such a time is long past. Fans focus too much on the players themselves and not enough on the maps, when the latter may very well be the driving force behind many of the results.

On April 05 2010 16:14 Wings wrote:


I absolutely LOL'd at your "terran is a... easier race to play". You mention Boxer yet you obviously don't realize how Boxer dominated when terran was by far the weakest race to play. Stable, perhaps. Easier? Are you kidding?

And Jaedong didn't win golden "mice" LOL. That would be pretty hilarious haha, and plus I like how you say there's an imbalance vs. zerg when a few seasons ago, it was basically every single zerg raping every single terran (and almost every toss), and almost all the Kespa top 10 were zergs, and the MSL finals was a ZvZ. Oh, wait, that was around the time when JD was "running his 10 ZvT win streak". Fancy that. And during the "golden age of protoss", there didn't seem to be many terrans at the top, were there? Hmm.

On April 06 2010 02:46 WWJDD wrote:


When Flash was asked which race was the hardest to play, he said it was zerg and that's why he admired Jaedong. Case closed.

On April 06 2010 02:46 WWJDD wrote:
When Flash was asked which race was the hardest to play, he said it was zerg and that's why he admired Jaedong. Case closed.

On April 05 2010 16:12 Plexa wrote:
No I completely disagree with this. I don't think Terran has any inherent advantage over any other race at being bonjwa, its just how it turned out.

On April 06 2010 04:20 Hinanawi wrote:

I really want to see an offracing tournament, where progamers can't play as their main race. I think it would be a lot of fun to watch. Flash vs Jaedong, anyone?

On April 06 2010 04:24 SuperArc wrote:


They do. TvT is much easier to dominate than ZvZ. In TvT you can make mistakes and still win in the end. (Flash's TvTs have been far from perfect, he just made less mistakes than his opponent)

On April 06 2010 05:13 TwoToneTerran wrote:


TvT is the least dominated matchup ever though. Flash is the only Terran who has been immaculate at TvT besides maybe Xellos. I mean just look at Elo peaks, the top ten vTers only have Flash as far as terrans go, whereas the top ten vPers have 2 (Best and Bisu) and vZers have 2 (Jaedong and, amusingly, Yellow).

There's more ZvP, PvT and TvZ dominators than any mirror matchup but TvT has historically been the least dominated matchup until Flash came along. :>

edit-- though with the top ten, Nada ties savior for vT dominance but statistically and historically, my point stands. Aside from Flash, only Xellos was known for his TvT. There's been quite a few historical PvPers (Best Bisu Nal_rA Stork etc etc). ZvZ only has Jaedong and, statistically yellow, and historically Chojja.

On April 06 2010 05:13 TwoToneTerran wrote:


TvT is the least dominated matchup ever though. Flash is the only Terran who has been immaculate at TvT besides maybe Xellos. I mean just look at Elo peaks, the top ten vTers only have Flash as far as terrans go, whereas the top ten vPers have 2 (Best and Bisu) and vZers have 2 (Jaedong and, amusingly, Yellow).

There's more ZvP, PvT and TvZ dominators than any mirror matchup but TvT has historically been the least dominated matchup until Flash came along. :>

edit-- though with the top ten, Nada ties savior for vT dominance but statistically and historically, my point stands. Aside from Flash, only Xellos was known for his TvT. There's been quite a few historical PvPers (Best Bisu Nal_rA Stork etc etc). ZvZ only has Jaedong and, statistically yellow, and historically Chojja.

On April 06 2010 05:55 Musoeun wrote:


Wasn't Iris typically considered a top-tier TvT player as well? Although Iris now... ugh.

On April 05 2010 16:14 Wings wrote:
You mention Boxer yet you obviously don't realize how Boxer dominated when terran was by far the weakest race to play.

On April 06 2010 04:24 SuperArc wrote:


They do. TvT is much easier to dominate than ZvZ. In TvT you can make mistakes and still win in the end. (Flash's TvTs have been far from perfect, he just made less mistakes than his opponent)

On April 06 2010 08:09 Sadistx wrote:


It goes both ways. That means any time during the long TvT your opponent can actually come back, so you can't afford to make mistakes. In fact this means TvT is harder to dominate, because it takes the most skill out of mirror MU's.

On April 06 2010 02:46 WWJDD wrote:


When Flash was asked which race was the hardest to play, he said it was zerg and that's why he admired Jaedong. Case closed.

On April 06 2010 09:38 StylishVODs wrote:
Isn't it pretty pointless arguing what mirror is the easiest to master?
Its obvious that it can be done with all races. And it's obvious that its hard with all races.
we basically have only flash jaedong bisu and best whos ever truely mastered the mirror matchup.

the arguements you said are correct severedevil but you miss arguements like tanks fireing vs tanks can be very random and unforgivable, the same with mines going off. I find it useless atleast but go ahead:D

On March 30 2010 05:36 jalstar wrote:
Predictions for April? I think:

1. Flash (duh)
2. Jaedong
3. Light
4. Stork
5. fantasy
6. Kal
7. Sea
8. Leta
9. ZerO
10. free[gm]

On April 06 2010 08:51 StylishVODs wrote:
1st on PR for 6 months in a row, gratz

wow now that I saw it, it looks so wrong posting the best pro's with wrong race:

Flash vs Jaedong

Bisu vs Iloveoov

Boxer vs Savior

NaDa vs Stork


ewww...

On April 06 2010 12:28 jalstar wrote:


predicted 9/10 without counting positions, and i predicted this before baby beat stork in OSL/jaedong in MSL

fantasy got robbed no doubt

On April 06 2010 12:52 o[twist] wrote:


that is 8 out of 10

On April 06 2010 18:11 Holgerius wrote:
Sea is proving that he deserves his spot on the PR! :D

And it's a shame seeing such an idiot as Kwanro on the PR.

On April 06 2010 20:51 o[twist] wrote:
beginning to think one of the strongest Protoss was overlooked this month, including by me

On April 06 2010 21:58 SuperArc wrote:
So Light > jaedong was wrong, Sea>Jaedong not.

On April 06 2010 22:15 StylishVODs wrote:
With so few players performing up to standard this month I'm puzzled as to why Fantasy was dropped out of the PR and not even mentioned in CBNC. Care to elaborate?

Light has been performing well throughout march so you can't really blame plexa for him having to face nothing but protoss to qualify for Ro16. However the #2 spot should not easily be given to players with a matchup as weak as lights TvP.

On April 06 2010 18:11 Holgerius wrote:
Sea is proving that he deserves his spot on the PR! :D

And it's a shame seeing such an idiot as Kwanro on the PR.

On April 06 2010 22:23 Plexa wrote:
I wouldn't say so, Jaedong barely made it out of his MSL group He's just fortunate his group was super weak.

On April 06 2010 21:11 Plexa wrote:

whom?

On April 07 2010 02:41 StylishVODs wrote:
I just noticed that Flash is currently 23-3 in his last 26 games. The exact same score he had of his peak in 0-8 if im not mistaken! Did I jinx it now? :D

On April 06 2010 23:35 qrs wrote:

Define "barely made it out". Dropping one game? Then half the players in the Ro16 will have "barely made it out" of their groups.

It's not like the two games that Jaedong won were even remotely contested. True, Baby has had his number recently, but Baby's been on a tear in general, and that game was no blow-out either. Not like + Show Spoiler +

On April 06 2010 07:52 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Flash is the first top Terran to absolutely dominate TvT the way he does, is what I'm getting at. Same with Jaedong and ZvZ, too. (Chojja was a whiz at it in his day but Savior was obviously the top dog when that as occurring.)

On April 07 2010 05:16 Mortality wrote:


Kind of not really true.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?type=players&id=147&part=games&vs=T&league=any&map=any&from_year=2001&from_month=3&from_day=3&to_year=2003&to_month=6&to_day=5&action=Update

NaDa was avging about 74% wins in TvT for more than 2 years since his debut. In fact he was still over 70% wins 3 years and 3 months after his debut.

It wasn't until NaDa met iloveoov that there was really anyone who could stop him in that match-up, and that was already ~2 years into his career.

Flash's ELO is much higher in part because of inflation and in part because he has more games under his belt during a time period of comparable length. I do think he is the best TvT player ever, but perhaps not by as much as most people think.

Edit: The other top TvT players of that era would have been Boxer (ELO peak 2175), Oddysay (ELO peak 2138) and TheMarine (ELO peak 2129).




I would also argue that there have been dominant ZvZ players in the past. Yellow, Gorush, Chojja, and even Savior looked very sharp back in 2006, eventually taking the lead in head-to-head versus Chojja.

Jaedong's domination, however, was just different. It wasn't just being dominant, it was complete one-sided-ness to the point where if it happened in any other match-up, netizens would be screaming imbalance (kind of like Savior ZvP or Oov TvZ). JD's ZvZ has historically been even more dominant than Flash's TvT. It's just that right now Flash's TvT is the best its ever been whereas other Zergs are slowly catching up to JD so maybe it doesn't feel that way anymore.

On April 07 2010 06:36 Mogwai wrote:
JvZ was insane back in the day.

From his debut (2/13/2006) until almost three and a half years later (7/7/2009), he posted a record of 75-17 (81.52%) in ZvZ. I don't think anyone else has had such consistent domination of a matchup right out of the gates as that.

In fact, I'm curious to see if anyone out there can find another programmer with a single matchup record over a period of 2 years or longer that is better than Jaedong's ZvZ between March 9th, 2007 and June 7th, 2009 (58-11, 84.06%).
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?type=players&id=211&part=games&vs=Z&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2007&from_month=3&from_day=9&to_year=2009&to_month=6&to_day=7&action=Update#tblt-736-2-1-DESC

On April 07 2010 05:04 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
Pure and Free imo should be put higher or even ON the list
both have been playing solid starcraft

On April 07 2010 04:48 Plexa wrote:

He was in a group of washed up gamers and baby and went 2-1, that's not something I would expect Jaedong to do!!

On April 07 2010 06:41 TwoToneTerran wrote:


You can't say going on a seven game losing streak inspired confidence in his domination. This isn't a matter of statistics (though I plainly tossed Elo in to back up my claim), it's a matter of just how ridiculously unstoppable Flash has been in the matchup. While he's only like 7-3 currently, he hasn't lost more than 2 TvTs back to back in over a year. He went undefeated for 8 months amassing 22 wins. He crushed any semblance of the idea that anyone is better at TvT than him over and over again.

Nada had a wonderful overall record, but that means crap when you drop six games in a row to your rivals, and lose more intermittently, when you want to talk about dominance. Hell a period of 70% winrate isn't even that amazing. Since his loss to Hiya way back Flash has got 88%.

The two aren't really comparable. Nada was obviously a bonjwa. He obviously "dominated" the matchup by the standards back then, but he holds nothing on the new Flash. Until Flash drops six games in a row within the next year (it's been literally one year since the loss to Hiya is why I brought that up), he will have utterly trounced it. And frankly, TvT was arguably Nada's achilles heel because of Boxer and Oov giving him a ton of losses.

[B]strange, its almost as if something is *gasp* imbalanced in favor of terran.

On April 07 2010 16:07 karlkarlson wrote:
i know you flash-hugging nerds don't wanna hear this, but isn't it wierd that absolutely MEDIOCRE terran play is demolishing zergs right now? look at the last rounds of the MSL or OSL ( kwanro v fantasy , fake yellow v hiya )

On April 07 2010 20:50 Holgerius wrote:
It's quite absurd to see Flash at #1 when he can't even beat Hyvaa. I expect him to drop a lot on the PR next month.

On April 07 2010 13:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Goddamn you completely twisted every word I said. I never said Nada sucks. I said Flash's streak of domination overshadows Nada simply because it's a matter of domination. No matchup is utterly dominated when you lose six games in a row to one of your rivals and some other guys. It's good when you have nada's record, but it isn't bonjwa like. You don't just expect him to win every matchup when he drops six in a row, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how many months are in between or who you're playing, because bonjwa-esque makes no reservations for "who."

I don't care what stipulations you have. I could bring up how your stats on everyone except maybe skyhigh are irrelevant as they don't pertain to the period we're talking about (where skyhigh is 1-1 with him, sniping him in a third set after he beat two other opponents), but that's shallow thinking. Flash's entire career is comparable to the guy you picked's glory period. His hot streak is far more impressive. Playing more games isn't a detriment, all it does is further prove consistency, especially considering Flash got put up against every "best" TvTer multiple times during his run, so being all indignant about how Nada had to play the guys that could hang with him is ridiculous. Flash faced every guy anyone thought could handle him, and proved they couldn't.

All of this aside, you can't explain six losses in a row. You can't. That proves that, for whatever reason, Nada was very vulnerable during the period you showed in his TvT. He may have still been obviously the best, but tons of people have been the "best" in a matchup but not dominated it to an obscene extent. We're talking unrivaled.

On April 08 2010 02:14 SuperArc wrote:
wow Flash sure has good fans.

One loss and they all start jumping ship.

On April 06 2010 05:55 Musoeun wrote:
Wasn't Iris typically considered a top-tier TvT player as well? Although Iris now... ugh.

On April 08 2010 18:49 ThunderGod wrote:
Zero?

On April 08 2010 18:54 ThunderGod wrote:
Zero?

On April 08 2010 08:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Goddamn Mortality. Every single post you have makes huge assumptions of me like "being compared to Nada is a bad thing." All I did was point out ere in your judgement and, fuck, I even edited my post to HELP your argument and you go batshit on me.

Flash is 1-1 with Skyhigh and Leta, okay, that's reasonable, but he didn't lose six straight. Plain and simple. 70% is amazing but you can't honestly tell me it's dominating when he loses six games in a row. It's just not reasonable. The best, sure, but six games in a row is just painful to look at.

Nada's first year was apparently the third greatest matchup though, behind Oov's 18-0 of Zerg and Flash 22-0 of Terran. It's a bit disrespectful of me to say Nada isn't as dominant because I wasn't watching back then, but when you just cite statistics at me and Flash is clearly superior on streaks, winrate, and at the very least similar in levels of competition, how am I supposed to look at it? All Flash has to do is keep this up for another year before he absolutely dominates Nada's success.

I guess that's why the commentators were chiming about "above bonjwa," though. I bet it sells well.

of course then he goes mech on match point. I don't know what to do with you Flash.

On April 08 2010 19:38 Elroi wrote:


Well, a double SL win and 6 golds in total >>> any streaks or elo records imo

On April 08 2010 20:26 Severedevil wrote:
If I hear any more FLASH SLUMP HURP DURP from Flash fans...

For fuck's sake, you can't mock people for saying Flash is slumping when the only people who are saying Flash is slumping are saying it to mock these fictional people who are saying that Flash is slumping.

On April 08 2010 20:54 StylishVODs wrote:
Well flash actually have alot of "false" fans, as have most of the dominant players, and it's logical.

On April 08 2010 21:42 SuperArc wrote:
FYI: I am really not saying Flash is slumping or isn't the best player in the world. He still is by far.

Just that his play today and yesterday was not convincing, he wont get dual finals with this.

On April 08 2010 21:04 Djabanete wrote:
There are also a lot of fans who enjoy being "better" than other fans, whatever the fuck that means.

On April 08 2010 21:56 okum wrote:
It means having the louder WOOOOHs and WAAAAHs.

On April 09 2010 01:12 Fumi wrote:
Did you guys REALLY took those posts seriously? I'm pretty sure they were joking, since a lot of people start screaming slump once S-Class players drop games to scrubs.

On April 08 2010 21:55 StylishVODs wrote:


Care to elaborate?

Are you saying that it's annoying that some flash fans aren't calling him names everytime he lose?
That it's equally annoying that some flashfans dislikes the attitude off other flashfans?
That there aren't any difference between "true fans" and "bandwagon fans"?
Or was it simply a way to say that you think I said I'm one of those "better" fans?

I'm confused.

On April 09 2010 04:30 NurseArial wrote:
If anything, the intense reaction to a loss by Flash is indicative of just how crazy dominant he is. People just assume Flash will win every game so when he doesn't it's pretty shocking.

Seems like Flash is having the hardest time with TvT these days, I guess other Terrans are catching up to him, just like JvZ.

On April 09 2010 12:05 Lebesgue wrote:


Well, according to his interview he didn't have much time to prepare. Also Midas in his interview said that he felt as if Flash haven't practised much for their game.

I feel like Flash actually needs some break, that's all. Recently, he has been carrying his team a lot yet again...

On April 09 2010 22:33 SuperArc wrote:


Yeah, the problem is Flash surely wants KT to stay #1 and so he will keep practicing a lot, especially ace matches. One bad round of like 4-7 and KT will lose their #1 spot. Losing playoff spot is practically impossible though.

Long term wise I think Flash out of OSL would help him more than hurt.

On April 09 2010 04:04 DracoVolantus wrote:
FLASH IS SLUMPING I SAW IT THE MOMENT HE WON WITH SEA BY LUCK WHEN 3 VULTURES EXPLODED TO THEIR OWN MINES BECAUSE TANK POPPED OUT OF FACTORY THE SAME SECOND THEY WERE PLANTED!!!!!!!!!

On April 10 2010 01:28 Pokebunny wrote:
Completely irrelevant comment, but is FakeSteve ever gonna come back to PR? His were my favorite although I love all the PR writers.



Didn't see whatever you're referencing, but reminds me of Flash vs GGPlay on Plasma a couple years back. That was the most depressing game ever for me

On April 08 2010 20:26 Severedevil wrote:
If I hear any more FLASH SLUMP HURP DURP from Flash fans...

For fuck's sake, you can't mock people for saying Flash is slumping when the only people who are saying Flash is slumping are saying it to mock these fictional people who are saying that Flash is slumping.

On April 10 2010 02:03 SimonB wrote:


That game still stands out as the most shocking game I've ever seen. Flash seemed pretty shocked too. I still think he should've hung in there instead of instantly GGing. He could've lifted up his natural and worked out of one base for a little while since GGplay still only had two gas, I think.

On April 11 2010 00:35 Plexa wrote:
It's funny how much this ranking would change if I wrote it today as opposed to last week.

On April 11 2010 01:53 StylishVODs wrote:


How would you rank them today? ;D

On April 11 2010 02:27 Plexa wrote:

Without going into too much detail, Stork would probably be pushing CBNC, kal improving a bit, light down, kwanro CBNCd, haven't thought too much about who would get in instead, probably hiya or something, but yea... D: