[N] Uninspired Mafia

On May 01 2019 01:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I want Pandain to come in here and explain himself! God damnit GIMME!!!

On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote:


#1 priority as town for me is finding scum.

On May 01 2019 23:39 Vivax wrote:
MZ stuff was just bleh and uninteresting. Why does it make him mafia if he says that he's glad nobody claimed scum yet?It's a wonky thing to say and that's about it. Maybe Bugs and FF can explain how saying that makes people scum cause I don't see it.

And if you're going to say that town MZ should be glad that people scumclaim, imagine how glad mafia MZ would be if it was townies scumclaiming like in 99 % of the cases, given that you are implying you would vote them off for those claims.

In summary, wary of FF cause not shitposting and looking more like a serious mafia FF with that vote.

On May 01 2019 07:13 Grackaroni wrote:
I think Pandain should actually be pretty easy to read judging from the last two games he played. He was a lot more held back in the scum game and in the town game I thought he was a pretty easy town read.

On May 02 2019 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You really think mafia claims this and then does the complete opposite? You'd need to be really dumb if you didn't realise this is exactly where it gets you and i wouldn't say that's a really good strategy. But it's okay, maybe the 70% of the game can talk about something else after D1 since you're gonna have your lynch.

On May 02 2019 04:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You should pick they Eywa one from last game, i laughed here for like 20 mins after the post.

On May 02 2019 07:14 Holyflare wrote:

















This guy is suspect numero uno. Anybody that uses the phrase "that's scummy regardless of Jock's alignment" is a guy that has tmi and makes it want to look like he's weighing up his options.

Let us also not forget that he agreed with all the points on Jock, fought against rayn that jock looked scummy, said rayn was scummy for not trying to save his town read and then dropped it all to try and shenanigan with rayn.

Let us also not forget that Pandain wanted to lynch rels (based on incorrect meta that was highlighted several times already) despite a wagon building on Jock, his also scum read, to make rels active again. Then when that didn't take off, Pandain, master of misdirection, avoided joining the jock wagon (his scum read) again for terrible shenanigans.

Then when Jock, his scum read, flipped town (after pandain said he's probably town for no discernable reason why arguing that he was still mafia) Pandain decides to call the entire wagon on Jock, his scum read, and also maybe town read, mafia.

No thanks. You mafia mate. Lynch Pandain when I'm gone.

On May 03 2019 05:23 Holyflare wrote:
I don't know if I want to read into the choice to replace igrok and not vivax or not.

On May 03 2019 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
You know what

No.

Pandain.

No.

You don't get to come in here and jizz all over the thread about "trying to lynch the gf" when A) you had literally zero credibility beyond your ability to provide ONE vote, and not even a vote OFF the main wagon. It was a useless vote on Rels that went nowhere and meant nothing, just like the Vivax vote.

In fact, it makes sense to me that the mafia team would be trying to capitalize on a possibly MODKILLED GF.

##Vote: Pandain

On May 03 2019 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
I just don't know what he's capable of, he's better than me okay?!

HES BETTER THAN ME BUGS AND I CAN'T FUCKING READ HIM!

He could be doing this as town, cock-sure of himself saying fuck all of us. We don't matter to him regardless of his alignment.

He could be doing this as mafia, fearlessly flitting from target to target, posting walls of quotes and then writing conclusions that have nothing to do with the quotes AND YOU DON'T REMEMBER BECAUSE THE WALL WAS SO BIG!

On May 03 2019 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever I'll just read then. I fucking hate when people come in and scream about trying to lynch someone who died NOT from the lynch and flipped and now I'm tilted.

On May 04 2019 01:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's a Jeep tell from MafiaScum, I'm sure I've explained it in your presence before.

Players who do things like congratulate the doctor on a successful save tend to be mafia. What Pandain is like the reverse of it, try to appear town by talking about how much it would suck to be mafia after the GF got killed.

On May 04 2019 07:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Try and lynch me if you think it's fake. Good fucking luck.

On May 04 2019 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote:


I will respond to literally nothing you say in your defense. Your best defense is to try and offer up another alternative.

On May 04 2019 05:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What a cluster fuck -_-

On May 04 2019 08:45 Holyflare wrote:


Wtf kind of theory is this by the way? Where does it say anything about any kind of extra mafia kp role in op? Are you trying really badly to fake a dumb tell?

I even had to read the op to make sure. I hooe you're impressed.

On May 04 2019 08:39 Holyflare wrote:
Everyone realises it but everyone has been burnt by bussing before. It's a futile exercise, especially when I can almost guarantee the first post in the mafia qt is vivax telling his team to bus him.

You asking for all the cred is bad.

Your post after the day post basically screaming for cred didn't help, looked pretty fake.

Your lack of night activity because it was oh so obvious you wouldn't die and you'd do it tomorrow into nothing looks bad.

Your d1 avoiding jock looked bad.

Your 0 real scum reads is bad.

More content will eclipse those points potentially eventually but you have to start somewhere. VE is being an absolute gentleman trying to help.

On May 03 2019 04:42 Pandain wrote:


Decent argument but unfortunately it fails to keep in mind one key thing. It's day 1, and any of my reads are weak. So yes, I agreed with Jock playing weird and even suspiciously. I stated as such and even stated that I don't think he was a bad lynch. But that doesn't mean I was completely or even [b] mostly [b] convinced he was mafia. And when you're saying that I was trying to get Rels lynched despite being suspicious of jock, you totally fail to fucking realize I was more suspicious of rels than jock, so your whole argument is moot because I wanted to lynch someone who I thought was more suspicious.

So when I switched to someone rayn pointed out was actually a good chance of being mafia , vivax, of course I finally switched and stayed.

But especially as he didn't post at all by the end of the day, which is very different than just lurking for mosting of it, I didn't really feel confident with him either and that would just be a chance lynch. And I grew more convinced Jock was town near the end because of the complete lack of activity (there was only me and grack and rayn for the last hour), which doesn't seem like it would be likely if jock was mafia.

Decent argument but unfortunately it fails to keep in mind one key thing. It's day 1, and any of my reads are weak. So yes, I agreed with Jock playing weird and even suspiciously. I stated as such and even stated that I don't think he was a bad lynch. But that doesn't mean I was completely or even [b] mostly [b] convinced he was mafia. And when you're saying that I was trying to get Rels lynched despite being suspicious of jock, you totally fail to fucking realize I was more suspicious of rels than jock, so your whole argument is moot because I wanted to lynch someone who I thought was more suspicious.

So when I switched to someone rayn pointed out was actually a good chance of being mafia , vivax, of course I finally switched and stayed.

But especially as he didn't post at all by the end of the day, which is very different than just lurking for mosting of it, I didn't really feel confident with him either and that would just be a chance lynch. And I grew more convinced Jock was town near the end because of the complete lack of activity (there was only me and grack and rayn for the last hour), which doesn't seem like it would be likely if jock was mafia.

On May 04 2019 09:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain why did you think Vivax was scum?

On May 02 2019 04:52 Pandain wrote:
Vivax is a great lynch. He's always obvious town when he's town and super active. Compare that with this game where it is not obvious at all and he's barely contributed (but enough to "pass")

On May 04 2019 09:12 Holyflare wrote:


What games have you played in when mafia have more than 1kp in a normal sized game?

On May 04 2019 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain what do you think of MZ, given that you think BC is scum? Who would you lynch today?

If you have notes on the game, now’s the time..

On May 04 2019 09:34 Holyflare wrote:


Way to trivialise it. This is just one of many points against.

On May 04 2019 09:39 wherebugsgo wrote:


I’m asking you to resynthesize. idgaf if you posted something before, and I don’t care much that you voted either. If you believe BC is scum why aren’t you trying to convince others to join you?

On May 04 2019 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:


You don’t have that much time so you spend a bunch of time speculating about kp and posting this drivel instead of just explaining your read further?

Can you point me to the posts you made which you think no one responded to?

On May 04 2019 11:31 wherebugsgo wrote:


Let’s work together in whatever time you have. I’m not sure if I can prevent a lynch on you nor do I know if I want to at this point but if you are town then I’m basically your only defender.

Let’s imagine you are correct about BC being scum.

1. Do you find any interactions between other players and BC/vice versa that stood out to you?

2. Specifically on MZ, if BC died and flipped scum would you feel more or less confident on MZ?

On May 04 2019 20:32 Holyflare wrote:


Yes I know your point of view. I just have my own assumption about it.

On May 05 2019 02:16 Grackaroni wrote:
I think we should lynch Pandain.

After rereading his filter I don't like that he makes such a hard turn into being super sure Vivax is the best lynch at the end of the day and tries to milk the credit for voting him for all that it's worth. Rayn put him in a spot where he pretty much had to vote Vivax but there wasn't much chance of Vivax actually dying at the end of the day when the only people posting were me/Pandain/Rayn.

On May 05 2019 03:04 Holyflare wrote:


Let's assume pandain is town. Really really have to stretch our imaginations but let's just pretend. Now let's also do something crazy and pretend bugs is the opposite alignment to what he is.

What has koshi achieved other than complete apathy and small posts and almost 0 activity after vivax was modkilled?

On May 05 2019 05:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
why the fuck would HF as veteran troll on n1

I don't actually get anything about how he played. and why was he so insistent I was scum

On May 05 2019 10:21 Alakaslam wrote:
I haven’t even read anything and I don’t think I’m going to

Until we lynch pandain then then I’ll read again

On May 06 2019 04:22 Grackaroni wrote:


This post is very strange to me. All WBG did was include Pandain in his scum list and he's talking about how Pandain is going to change his read on him for it as scum. I can't recall ever seeing a townie say something like this.

On May 06 2019 03:55 Grackaroni wrote:
Slam - I can't really say anything. Maybe he's enjoying himself?

On May 06 2019 05:06 Pandain wrote:
If the Vig is not VE or Bugs they should 100% claim. Basically a free confirmed town.

If it is VE or Bugs then might as well not claim to keep uncertainty over who is who, so it doesn't hurt mafia.

On May 06 2019 05:18 Grackaroni wrote:
I doubt we have three blues that would be unbalanced.

On May 06 2019 05:24 VisceraEyes wrote:

Yes, it's actually fairly common. It allows mafia to fake-claim cop.

On May 06 2019 05:39 Fecalfeast wrote:
Also koshi said he was going to be 'rayn 2.0' with rayn's list. This should probably mean the rest of rayn's list is incorrect?



MZ sounds like a good place to start. Low activity for a newb on a team of afk scum sounds totally accurate

On May 06 2019 01:30 Koshi wrote:
Both hf and rayn pointed heavily at wbg. Probably not a bad bet for mafia.

On May 03 2019 21:12 Koshi wrote:

I read rayn filter and I will just be rayn 3.0.

This is because Koshi = rayn 2.0 and now I absorbed rayn 1.0.

On May 06 2019 06:35 Fecalfeast wrote:
why not shoot ve tho? most universally townread player who is mad active

basically if VE and I are in final 3 im voting ve

On May 05 2019 02:16 Grackaroni wrote:
I think we should lynch Pandain.

After rereading his filter I don't like that he makes such a hard turn into being super sure Vivax is the best lynch at the end of the day and tries to milk the credit for voting him for all that it's worth. Rayn put him in a spot where he pretty much had to vote Vivax but there wasn't much chance of Vivax actually dying at the end of the day when the only people posting were me/Pandain/Rayn.

On May 05 2019 02:23 Grackaroni wrote:
From the way I saw it Vivax was a pretty good lynch just from lynching into a player that wasn't posting (and also is bad at scum) without having any strong scum reads but I didn't think he had all that much better odds of flipping mafia than most of the other players from just his two posts.

I think Pandain really played up the end of the day vote after Rayn said he wanted to vote Vivax. This reads to me like: "now that I'm bussing I want to get as much credit as possible from the vote."

On May 05 2019 02:56 Grackaroni wrote:

Fwiw I bet Rayn had 2 of these reads right.

I don't think he got killed just over Vivax.

On May 05 2019 02:10 Grackaroni wrote:
What the fuck guys.

Holyflare's filter is super super townie.

On May 05 2019 03:15 Grackaroni wrote:



You asked Rayn if he would switch to Rels. He said he the only vote he would switch to was Vivax. It would look really strange imo if you came out against lynching Vivax after expressing interest in switching up the vote, so I don't see you ever not voting Vivax as scum in that position. If you wanted a WBG lynch then conceivably you would have voted him already.

On May 06 2019 08:33 Grackaroni wrote:
We can’t believe a fake claim because town can just counter claim and win

On May 06 2019 06:08 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Lol that legitimately hurt me

I really can't promise great activity and we've got a ton of mislynches to burn so I'm fine taking the L today. Let's talk about tomorrow. I'm not sold on slam as scum but I'll try and read him today. If we're going on the assumption scum was super inactive this game then FF is also a possibility.

On May 04 2019 03:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Ok two hours to go.

I want to do shenanigans. HF not around to defend or explain his actions is making me not like the bugs lynch more and more.

Like I said early game, I'd rather not just lynch through the most active voices who find themselves on the wrong thread sentiment.

I would like to go after Rels for the tmi post and complete afk. After the death of the gf I'd imagine scum morale is pretty low and if townies are pointing fingers at townies their best strategy is to lurk.

On May 06 2019 06:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Yeah like I said earlier you're my strongest townread, I'll give you a skim but I'm gonna focus on unknowns.

Lowkey glad BC got shot bc I was not getting town vibes from him but he must have died for a reason so I guess I'll start there.

On May 06 2019 20:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like whether I agree with you or not, if he is still not interested in doing anything, I think he's got to go. We're at that point.

On May 07 2019 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:

Pandain, comment plz

On May 07 2019 02:39 Alakaslam wrote:

There you go VE

Useless shit speculation about why scum made such a dumbass shot

On May 07 2019 08:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Haha holy shit did the inner guilt get to you?

Playing scum sucks, sorry your team kinda gave this one up.

On May 07 2019 16:29 VisceraEyes wrote:

The thing is, lone mafia ALL look like town. Because like townies, they can't trust anyone. EVERYONE is LITERALLY out to kill them. I'm trying to use the events of the game to make a determination. Have you read my latest posts on MZ?

On May 07 2019 11:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, townies VOTE. It's what townies DO because townies ONLY get to vote. MZ you're VT right? Fucking, and you didn't VOTE? GET OUTTA HEEEEAH!!

On May 07 2019 16:53 wherebugsgo wrote:


I agree with this interpretation, because you were fear posting on the claim calls.

Like grack must not be playing the same game because he commented earlier about rayn fake claiming veteran. And he, I assume, witnessed HF actually flip veteran.

So what happened there? If that hypothetical had played out with both of them alive in this situation we get a counterclaim and lynch a townie?

On May 07 2019 11:19 Fecalfeast wrote:
as soon as slam started talking about pandain a post jumped into my mind from pandain. I will find it


When he made the post it seemed like he was more worried about pointing out that it doesn't clear me than anything else.

Which I disliked obviously.

I don't know. I'm rereading pandains day 1 and he has some weird posts with our current information. I have a bunch of tabs open but here are some highlights




Look how self-conscious and aware of how he's being perceived pandain is in this triple-post. Reads like it's coming from a mafia mindset.

---

Here's a pretty odd contradiction coupled with some equally odd association with koshi





So shortly before grouping these 5 players as some weird cell containing 2 scum, he called two of its members town. Not townleans either.
Two of the other members have flipped town
This, coupled with the fact that we have already established that vivax's first post in the scum QT was likely instructions to bus him, means that pandain through leading a vivax lynch was setting up to lynch into a group of 4 towns. Pretty odd indeed.

I will now mention that he happened to call flipped-scum koshi town twice in these posts but will not speak further on such a simple point.

I have some kinda shitty stuff too if you're interested

On May 02 2019 15:49 Fecalfeast wrote:

I'm never a fan of people going for me earlygame (or ever, really) because my scum meta (based on my own memory) is one of high activity earlygame because I'm excited to have rolled mafia. As town I'm often low hanging fruit which, obviously, is self-defeating of my tendency to omgus but it doesn't seem to matter.

On May 02 2019 14:16 Fecalfeast wrote:
maf
BC
vivax

On May 02 2019 16:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
1. No, you can look through my games yourself
+ Show Spoiler [FecalFeast] +

2. Vivax doesn't play when he's mafia based on my perception of him in games we've played together including one where we were both mafia

On May 02 2019 15:35 Fecalfeast wrote:

BC seemed scummy when I read his posts. Let me take this bong rip and I'll look again at him


MZ seemed like a fun pressure vote, got distracted playing rimworld/mtg arena and getting baked. Came back and again got distracted with real life shit. I was around at EoD but I had a physiotherapy appointment at deadline and hadn't really been reading so changing my vote to a wagon would have been purely for lulz

On May 02 2019 14:16 Fecalfeast wrote:

maf-ish
grack?
wbg
MZ



that's from a once over of the thread based on feels. thinking about hf's pandain case so i haven't placed him yet. rels can die too

I can elaborate or whatever if ppl ask i'll be up all night I think

On May 04 2019 12:23 Fecalfeast wrote:


i say let him slide til he deviates from rayn 3.0

On May 07 2019 11:46 Fecalfeast wrote:
oh well you see

On May 07 2019 11:46 Fecalfeast wrote:
I didn't actually read that far

On May 07 2019 17:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
thanks for your input friends. I’m on board with that.

Btw if FF is somehow scum here that is some amaze balls play. Read his progression on slam today, and how he’s posted about Pandain. If he’s faking that level of uncertainty I just don’t know, he deserves to win the game as scum I guess.

Unless someone can tell me that yes, FF has done something like scum I’m happy to consider him town here.

On May 07 2019 11:19 Fecalfeast wrote:
as soon as slam started talking about pandain a post jumped into my mind from pandain. I will find it


When he made the post it seemed like he was more worried about pointing out that it doesn't clear me than anything else.

Which I disliked obviously.

I don't know. I'm rereading pandains day 1 and he has some weird posts with our current information. I have a bunch of tabs open but here are some highlights




Look how self-conscious and aware of how he's being perceived pandain is in this triple-post. Reads like it's coming from a mafia mindset.

---

Here's a pretty odd contradiction coupled with some equally odd association with koshi





So shortly before grouping these 5 players as some weird cell containing 2 scum, he called two of its members town. Not townleans either.
Two of the other members have flipped town
This, coupled with the fact that we have already established that vivax's first post in the scum QT was likely instructions to bus him, means that pandain through leading a vivax lynch was setting up to lynch into a group of 4 towns. Pretty odd indeed.

I will now mention that he happened to call flipped-scum koshi town twice in these posts but will not speak further on such a simple point.

I have some kinda shitty stuff too if you're interested

On May 07 2019 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
so FF is on the lynch MZ train right away as is sort of expected given that AFAICT he never town read MZ once prior to this day. But why does he so quickly get off MZ after his responses when the rest of town hasn't budged?

Like that seemed premature to me, just autoswap to Pandain as soon as MZ posted something pseudo decent.

On May 07 2019 23:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think Pandain's analysis is mostly pretty good but I don't think it's a slam dunk. If you look for counter examples, you can find them, but like Pandain mentioned they're rare. I haven't had the time to check whether I think they're more common as scum or not but for instance:

From End of the World Party Mafia:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=194#3873

From Classic Mafia
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=194#3873

noteworthy on classic is that he promised a post on someone else (TickTock?) and t hen never did it, so even as town he did something "scummy"

On May 07 2019 23:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Ah now I see. Well its comforting to see someone agreeing with me although I wish it wasn't Pandain lmao.

Here's your order VE FF>MZ>Pandain

Again if by some miracle I don't get lynched today and FF is town. I want to die tomorrow bc I'll never survive final 3, everyone but maybe Pandain scum reads me. I will need to die so we can pack as many relatively townread people into the final 3 as possible so we don't end up with me/grack/slam lmao.

On May 08 2019 04:23 Fecalfeast wrote:
and for the record I started making big posts as scum because in the before-times I actually would make a lot of big posts as town and wanted to make sure to emulate that as scum.

Just a final defense of myself:

I have a 100% scum win rate and regardless of how carried I got I'd be very interested in keeping that winrate alive. A lot more interested than I have been most of this game

On May 08 2019 07:03 Alakaslam wrote:

Bam

Also note Pandain defended Koshi early and cast him in a massive town light

On May 08 2019 14:50 Alakaslam wrote:
Like what does one even do to prove innocence? I thought here the sole tubería was trying to look for scum?

On May 08 2019 21:02 VisceraEyes wrote:

Why the opposite conclusion?

On May 06 2019 06:53 Pandain wrote:


I don't like this post at all. First of all, the last sentence is extremely and obviously false, and looks like he's just trying to make up stuff. The idea I felt forced by Rayn to vote Vivax is extremely ridiculous and I'm not sure how anyone actually can come to that conclusion, particuarly since he was there when it was happening.

But second of all, and more importantly, it actually reveals his own mindset during the lynch. Grack, in his own words, thought there was very little chance of Vivax dying. Unlike me, and it basically completely negates his own vote on Vivax.



This also makes no sense. I was trying to get as much credit as possible from the bus? But actually I was only able to get credit because Vivax was modkilled, something no one could have predicted day one.

And in his own words, "Vivax was very unlikely to get lynched." So in that scenario I would have never gotten any credit (because no flip), and instead I would have just thrown Vivax under the bus for day 2.




Trying to sheep Rayn's analysis, which is the same exact thing mafia koshi tried to do. Seems mafia was trying to get people to follow dead town Rayn's analysis, and Grack is doing the same thing here.


I also don't like how he hardcore defended HF and said he's super obviously townie.


This is the weakest of my points. But I don't think it was actually obvious and there were lots of good points made against him. I think dismissing them like this suggests inside knowledge.


Anyway just some thoughts. I'm going to do meta analysis tomorrow if I have time. Still not placing a vote but definitely more suspicious of Grack.