[M][N] Medic Mafia

On March 09 2018 16:15 n00bKing wrote:

Well posting stuff like the dog .gif was before he would have received a role PM. He may have become...less excited after that, if he's on the scum team. Especially seeing that prplhz seemed headed for a medic overdose (a decision Alakaslam played no role in, btw). And if the Alakaslam slot had been on the team, that could help explain why prpl never came back to put up any fight. Alakaslam would still need to feign the excitement for a few posts after he arrives (and did) but then...yeah, 22 hours later, still nothing further. I don't *think* we're dealing with an Alakaslam/Kelsier/prpl scum team? But if that's what it was, you sure can't blame prpl for folding up the tent and going home. lol I guess you could say the same thing if you swap out one of those names with Damdred's, but that wasn't my original inclination.

Anyway, looks like we have 2 in favor of the mass claim, and 0 against, so far. I'm not against it either. If anyone IS, I'll hear what they have to say, but I gave it some thought, and it seems fine to me. Like you mentioned, if we assume there's a counterclaim, the mass claim still keeps the scum from narrowing that group (and revealing the faker) by shooting medics. Which means we can keep performing overdose kills at Night.

On March 06 2018 08:51 n00bKing wrote:

Yeah, if you're coordinating a medic kill on any given night, I think all the medics have to use the same target. This not only renders the Mafia medic useless, but it also renders the Mafia roleblocker useless. They basically just have 3 vanilla bad guys.

Coordinating things so that 2 medics kill a guy and one tries to prevent the mafia kill not only opens you up to disruption by the roleblocker, but I also don't see a way to get the medics on the same page (about which 2 are killing a guy and which 1 is trying to make a save) without telling the Mafia who they are. So you can't do anything but "all 3 on the same target" unless you execute a mass claim. Having never played under this set of rules (or one like it) I don't know if the mass claim is good or bad. I'll have to read the pre-game discussion again.

One thing I DO remember from pre-game discussion is the idea that this ruleset favors us pretty heavily, and that the Mafia will have to play extremely well to win. Is there a "far and away" best Scum player that we can lynch, to make sure that won't happen? :D

On March 09 2018 17:30 n00bKing wrote:



Come at me, bro.

On March 09 2018 17:37 rsoultin wrote:


I'd be more on board with this if we didn't have 3 town medics, which makes ccing impossible without a mass claim.

Do you fundamentally disagree that shooting into claimed medics narrows down the fake claim (assuming a scum fake claim)?

And if no fake claims, how does info from the 'night kills' when we get two more free vig shots and one save without a scum roleblocker (assuming shots on 3 medics 3 nights in a row) possibly outweigh removing 3 names from lynch consideration?

We'd be looking for two scum in seven people rather than two in ten. I like those odds. Especially if even one of those medics is lynchbait. Like, if we can clear some lynch bait, and they're not in my top townreads (assuming my top townreads are correct) this game is practically solved.

I really don't see how NK info outweighs this. Sometimes I find NK info helps, but usually I find it WIFOMy anyway.

Three confirmed town vs. NK guesswork.

Yeah I really, really think the mass claim is the best move for town here.

On March 09 2018 20:59 Vivax wrote:
I'm considering lynching FF for TMI today.

Really happy with that N1 outcome thank god medics weren't afk or stupid and followed consensus.

On March 10 2018 07:09 Half the Sky wrote:

Day 2 Vote Count

n00bKing (3): Fecalfeast, Vivax, Holyflare
Holyflare (1): rsoultin
KelsierSC (0): Fecalfeast (x)

Not Voting (6): Alakaslam, darthfoley, Koshi, KelsierSC, MoosyDoosy, n00bking

---

Holyflare currently stands as the lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, Mar 10 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) which is in .

On March 10 2018 21:12 Holyflare wrote:
The things rsoul has pushed this game make me so wary of her she keeps dropping down my list:

1) Town reading prplhz on nothing
2) Pushing amg all day 1 and then dropping it
3) Pushing me today despite it not making any sense
4) Hard defending df because of some tiny town read he gave her

Only things going for her:

1) Getting people to mass claim

On March 11 2018 02:13 Calix wrote:

Day 2 Vote Count

KelsierSC (6): Fecalfeast (x), Fecalfeast, n00bking, Vivax, rsoultin, Koshi, darthfoley
n00bKing (2): Fecalfeast (x), Vivax (x), Holyflare, Alakaslam
Holyflare (0): rsoultin (x)

Not Voting (2): KelsierSC, MoosyDoosy

---

KelsierSC currently stands as the lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, Mar 10 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) which is in .

On March 11 2018 01:14 darthfoley wrote:
Oh and i'm more than fine with Kelscier dying. The dude has said he'd play the game like 3 times and hasn't done anything.

##Vote: KelscierSC

On March 11 2018 02:52 rsoultin wrote:


Kelsier isn't a replacement. He's just not played.

On March 11 2018 03:55 rsoultin wrote:


Okay, but you're on one of the claimed medics, so he won't be lynched, lol

On March 11 2018 05:00 Holyflare wrote:
zzz obvious mafia

On March 11 2018 05:01 KelsierSC wrote:
Lynch hf for being a pseudo intellectual dumb fuck

On March 11 2018 04:12 darthfoley wrote:
Maybe it's just n00bking

On March 11 2018 05:04 Holyflare wrote:


Kelsier

He's either mafia trying to appeal to emotions or a seriously selfish town player that shouldn't have even signed up

I choose to believe he's not a dick.

On March 11 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote:


because Kelscier is not a replacement and i'm ignoring your troll posts for the time being

On March 11 2018 05:12 KelsierSC wrote:
Let's lynch marv

On March 11 2018 05:13 n00bKing wrote:

If getting people to mass claim is a point in her favor, then are you saying that yes, we should count your resistance as a strike against you? Koshi told everyone to "do the math" and see that the mass claim is a net positive. Should we think that failing to have done the math is randomly more forgivable for HF than for others?

I see a few people have commented on this plan of action. Anyone else have thoughts on it?

On March 11 2018 05:13 KelsierSC wrote:

I feel your face is ugly

On March 11 2018 05:15 n00bKing wrote:

Really?
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 11 2018 05:45 n00bKing wrote:

If you're Town, then I think all you're showing here is that I understand what makes for good play in these games, and you don't. I raise discussion points and ask what people think of them, to see who falls where. And if something that SHOULD have been a discussion point was mentioned by someone else, but people AREN'T talking about, then I will call attention to it, and say "wat everyone think of this?" to see who falls where.

If everyone had just ANSWERED all of my questions every time I said "wat everyone think of this?" then we probably would have had the goddamn game solved, and the scum team may have even already scooped by now.

On March 11 2018 06:07 Holyflare wrote:
Not lynching into medics sounds like your own problem tbh. I just want to lynch mafia.

On March 11 2018 06:21 Holyflare wrote:
I would much rather have fun and lynch mafia then trying to play optimally and rely on some shit game mechanics to win. I just wanted to play a normal game tbh but he we are. So, I am just going to play mafia like I normally am and lynch people that look like mafia regardless of whether they are a claimed medic or not.

We have three medic claims and all of them were instant. Only noobking's was delayed and didn't say a single thing. At no point has he even tried to decipher which of the other three medics are mafia when that should be the medic's main priority. I had a town read on vivax and a semi town semi blue read on ff the whole time. Df could have been mafia but I don't think he ever shoots AMG there at all over rsoul/vivax/hf.

Furthermore, he is actually angry at this point int time for no discernible reason that I can think of. To top it off he had that massive df post early on d1 where it looked like it was incredibly TMI to call him town. Add to that the fact that he wanted to lynch kelsier d1 instead of people that gave good information then I have to think he's actually mafia.

On March 11 2018 06:21 rsoultin wrote:
I don't get why people think KSC bouncing around the thread talking about his sexy voice seems town? It really looks to me like what Lex does when he's caught as scum...the almost giddyness.

I could be wrong, I just don't think so.

On March 11 2018 07:29 Holyflare wrote:
What alignment of players tries to manipulate the thread to annoy people and divert attention away from things? Why are you not just attributing that alignment to us?

On March 11 2018 08:02 Holyflare wrote:
O look

On March 11 2018 08:03 MoosyDoosy wrote:
So correct me if I'm wrong but don't we just kill noobking here

On March 11 2018 08:08 rsoultin wrote:
The way I see it, we vig shot into one of

Me
HF
Koshi
Moosy
Slam

There has to be a scum in there.

On March 11 2018 08:18 MoosyDoosy wrote:

That's because I'm r e f o r m e d dude. After thinking about all the times I got mad during this game I've decided it's not worth it. It's also why I'm trying to troll a little less because people got mad over it and I don't want to ruin people's days that way. It sucks to try and play the game and have to deal with someone's shit.

On March 11 2018 09:56 darthfoley wrote:


Rereading this, it feels very paranoid and self aware. Vivax asks him a simple question "why KSC > Prplhz" with no real agenda, and n00bking preemptively defends agaainst people making a "big deal" out of it. It's more bad when paired with his substantive post on prplhz that others have already pointed out



For tonight, i'm fine vigi healing Slam. Idk how to read him and I don't think i'm gonna get anything serious from him

On March 11 2018 08:25 n00bKing wrote:

And did you troll just as much, and ruin people's day, in games where you were mafia? Before you were "reformed?"

Wait, hold up, I know EXACTLY the right thing to do here.

Pay attention, Alakaslam, because the BEST play to make here is for me to ask....

"wat everyone else think?"

Has Town Moosy been reformed, and quit trolling in his town games? Did Scum Moosy troll just like Town Moosy, before he was "reformed" or no? And instead, he was more controlled/polite?

On March 11 2018 10:04 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Is there anything anyone wants me to look into? I've shared all my thoughts so I'm down with answering questions people have on my reads.

On March 11 2018 08:41 Koshi wrote:
At least rsoultin and noob undsrstand the correct play. Vigs please all stack on 1. 5 left. 3 more chances.

On March 11 2018 08:45 Holyflare wrote:
Tbh all the medics are being shit.

On March 11 2018 08:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Also rsoultin is right in that I haven't played in 2 years(?). I'm actually drawing inspiration from one game I played way back where I actually played decent as town and nailed a clutch cop check.

So yeah, I'm just genuinely trying to shake up my meta from the mess it was before. If you read me as scum that's fine, I just call bogus on reading me as red because of meta.

On March 11 2018 10:07 darthfoley wrote:


HF nk makes no sense when he could pretty easily push credible scum reads on me or FeFe

On March 11 2018 10:08 MoosyDoosy wrote:

i have no idea what you're asking my dude

On March 11 2018 10:08 darthfoley wrote:


I'm mainly townreading Koshi/Damdred slot because of how Damdred played early on.

Why do you pair me with that slot?

On March 11 2018 10:23 Koshi wrote:
Noobking is playing pretty ok from where I joined in.
Vivax isn't.

DF looks town.
fefe same.


Slam looks mad enough to be town.
Moosy looks town.
rsoultin makes way too much sense to be mafia. She is solving the game like I would.
HF is pushing to kill medics but not Vivax who fell of the earth.



Tinfoil HF + Vivax explained.

On March 11 2018 14:43 n00bKing wrote:
Mafiosa Holyflare

If the Mafiosa is Holyflare, his partner is not DF, but instead either Vivax or FF. Fake-claimed medic as mafiosa, but then rescinded the claim at the start of Day 2 for NO...REASON. The fake claim can continue to have value if he's town. There would be no way for the scum team to know that the claim had been fake, because instead of saying "I'm not a medic" he could just say "I actually targeted prpl after all, I just wanted them to think I wouldn't." There's scum motivation to rescind the fake-claim though, if he's afraid of the mass claim going down, and thinks that switching his claim to VT *before* the mass claim will be less likely to get him lynched than not switching his claim to VT *until* the mass claim.

He was asked why he rescinded the claim at the start of day 2, and I didn't see an answer. I brought it back up again, and still didn't see an answer. Because there is NO reason for Town HF to admit it was a fake claim in that spot. It sabotages his OWN play, if he's town.

Throughout the entire game, he shows a pattern of not answering to simple and direct questions. If he's town, why is he not cooperating with people to try and solve the game, and instead making people like rsoul and myself have to keep repeating the same (unanswered) questions?

He has also exhibited a pattern of playing AGAINST the Town's win condition. The mass claim was pro-Town, and he opposed it, even though his pre-game thoughts would indicate he understood how difficult a place the mass claim puts Scum into, and that the only way Scum could pull out an upset win in this game is with carefully considered fake claims. Now he says he changed his mind, but it's not good that he changed his mind to the anti-Town choice.

He followed that up by playing against the Town's win condition again, when suggesting that the Day 2 lynch be one of the medic claims (me) instead of one of the VT claims, even though the whole point of the mass claim was to put us in a situation where we almost cannot lose, if we just plow our way through the VT claims. Koshi had already outlined this reality, before HF continued to go against it anyway.

He followed that up by playing against the Town's win condition a third time, when suggesting that we take vig shots into the medic pool tonight, instead of into the VT pool, when again, the benefit of the mass claim is that we win by finding the scum in the VT claims.

His excuse for all this anti-town behavior? He'd rather have fun, than play optimally. I'm not even exaggerating, that's actually what he said:


There are no bonus points for making the game harder and then still managing to win anyway. If you were Town, we should have (EVENTUALLY) been able to get you to STOP SERVING THE MAFIA AGENDA. But we haven't.

In case the shot ends up going into the VTs, he wants to make sure it doesn't hit him. Ideally, it wouldn't hit Moosy, either, so that Moosy can be the Day 3 lynch. (If Moosy is killed by medics tonight and flips Green, HF knows he's next in the Noose. He's gotta hope someone else gets killed by the medics, so that Moosy will be lynched Day 3.)

To that end, he says he's already figured out who the Mafiosa is: Koshi.

And also says:

HF has used terms like "honestly" and "to be honest" a lot in this game, which studies have shown are used by people more often while they are lying than when they aren't. "to be fair" is not in the same category, but it's strange word choice, in my opinion, for the point he's making.

It seems like people think HF is a pretty bright guy, but I've identified (and pointed out) the use of multiple logical fallacies, in his posts.

He has also seized on little bits of nothing, and then tried to balloon them up to be much more than they really were.

The "scumslip" where Tubesock believes HF's medic claim is only *barely* alignment-indicative at all. It was not as strong as the arguments that I used (and that AMG seconded) to scumread Tubesock.

HF repeatedly brings up that I'm not making "find the fake medic" my primary focus, like as if that's a big deal. It SHOULDN'T be my primary focus.

Brings up that I was the last medic to claim. And? That's not "barely" alignment-indicative, instead it literally means nothing. Once the mass claim begins, the fake claim is just as likely to be the first one as the last one.

The crown jewel is probably this post:

This would be so outlandishly dangerous for Town that I thought he might just be looking to see reactions to it. Which is why I did not respond to it for the entire rest of the Day 2 phase, except to say that I would like to see more people comment on what they thought of it (so that *I* could watch for reactions too. This is what is behind ALL of the instances where I pose or bump questions, for everyone to answer. Watch how people react to the question, and make them take a position. This is how scumhunting works. You don't catch people in contradictions later, if you can't make them react to anything.)

If Kelsier flips Red, I don't have to worry about any naughty motivations behind HF suggesting this, but after Kelsier flips Town, and we're in the Night Phase, I go back to HF and ask him what he gained from watching reactions to his suggestion. Or if it didn't work, and he gained nothing. Or if he actually thinks that shooting into the medics is what we should do. I tell him I need an honest answer, no more games. He says he'd rather take the shorter path to the end of the game, which tells me that yes, he legitimately wants to use the idea.

And the idea makes good sense...as long as he's scum. If DF and I are suspicious of each other enough to follow the plan, we turn in heals on each other, as suggested. Whichever of FF/Vivax is the other town medic also turns in a heal on one of us. Killing that town medic. Whichever of FF/Vivax is the mafia medic turns in a heal on the OTHER one of us, killing THAT town medic. And the mafia uses their night kill to eliminate one of the VTs.

Poof, THREE town deaths in the same night, including two medics (myself and DF), meaning we lose the ability to take vig shots anymore. The sole remaining medic will be paralyzed, because if he turns in a heal on the following night, he's just as likely to accidentally kill his target (when the mafia medic targets the same player) as save his target. No way to be sure which VT the mafia are killing and which one they are targeting to heal.

Night 2 is 7-2. Day 3 would be 4-2. Which means....lynch wrong, and you may never see Day 4, and the Town cannot No Lynch in this ruleset.

But let's say the Town DOES lynch correctly on Day 4, putting HF in the noose, for causing the deaths of 3 Town players in one night. 4-1. But the NK would make it 3-1, and you AGAIN cannot lynch wrong, when choosing between Vivax and FecalFeast on the final day.

That is what HF's suggestion gets you: The opportunity to go from a massive 7-2 advantage right now, to having to lynch correctly twice in a row to stave off a mafia victory.

On March 11 2018 15:32 n00bKing wrote:

Yeah, I have a question about your reads. Who is the VT scum? The other vanilla claims are: Slam, HF, rsoul and Koshi. Who should get shot tonight? I don't feel like you're interacting with any of them like as if they are scumreads. Does your own PoE tell you that the VT scummer is you?

On March 12 2018 05:43 Holyflare wrote:
Noobking stop shitting up the thread arguing with me about semantics. If you want to follow your plan fucking do it and convince your three medic buddies to heal a unanimous target. Do you not care that three people can die tonight?

On March 12 2018 05:53 n00bKing wrote:

Pointing out the FACT that you are actively trying to reduce the town's win % is NOT semantics.

On March 12 2018 06:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
alright so one question. To which I responded with this:
+ Show Spoiler +
But fair enough, halfway through day phase I did kind of start to faze things after it started to become clear we were playing setup. I don't think asking people to make sure they didn't change their mind is necessarily a bad thing though.

On March 12 2018 06:11 darthfoley wrote:
A prplhz/Alakaslam/+1 team would make me very sad for the third person

On March 12 2018 06:11 darthfoley wrote:
I actually think it's kind of interesting that the other medics have been a little gunshy about Slam, considering he's what you might consider to be "lynchbait" material.

On March 12 2018 06:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Daylight savings happened in the US so we are one hour ahead yes.

On March 12 2018 08:01 darthfoley wrote:
lmao

i'm probably a baller

On March 12 2018 08:06 rsoultin wrote:
lol <3!

It was risky, but that confirmed town life!

On March 12 2018 08:09 n00bKing wrote:
Well this makes things easy.

##Vote: darthfoley

Only scum would withhold information the town needs by hiding it behind so many spoiler tags.

On March 12 2018 08:11 darthfoley wrote:
Vivax is confirmed mafia

On March 12 2018 08:16 darthfoley wrote:


1. n00bking and FF committed to saying they were healing Koshi
2. I said the same thing, to bait one of them to switch to Moosy for 2 kp.
3. Neither one of them switched off of Koshi, so unless they're really dumb, Vivax is mafia

On March 12 2018 08:19 darthfoley wrote:
I mean people can theorycraft scenarios in which im somehow g0dtier suboptimal mafia but it doesn't make any sense. Mafia NEEDS to use every KP they can get their hands on considering prplhz's flip.

No mafia willing decides to only go for one KP last night imo

On March 12 2018 08:26 Holyflare wrote:
Nobody is saying df is mafia lol?

On March 12 2018 08:30 darthfoley wrote:


Oh well given his track record, who knows

On March 12 2018 08:39 Holyflare wrote:
To be really honest I think the best play here is to not lynch vivax.

We kill into the VTs (slam) and then we get ff/df to heal vivax, nk to heal rsoul and vivax to heal df.

On March 12 2018 10:07 Fecalfeast wrote:
Hf are you mafia

On March 12 2018 10:07 Fecalfeast wrote:
Alakaslam are you mafia

On March 12 2018 10:41 Holyflare wrote:
I'll be sad if nk is mafia and nobody listened.

On March 12 2018 21:10 Holyflare wrote:


This plan involves us lynching moosy today and him being town.

I will flip vt if you sacrifice me so it's up to you whether you wanna get mafia slam early or "confirm" me mafia the next day. No difference other than you guys being shit.

If any of the medics break rank then it is absolutely obvious which one did it since if ff is mafia I won't die. If vivax is mafia and he switches he's obvious. Same with NK.

Thus we therefore control the mafia medic night kill in our favour.

If they all choose to stick with their claims and follow this plan then the following day you have df/rsoul as basically town. 4 medic claims and a confirmed mafia. Do not lynch the confirmed mafia. This is when you lynch into medic claims.

You lynch vivax for not making sense if he hasn't already conceded and if he's medic then you have two medics and two towns and a confirmed mafia and a mafia medic claim.

The next night you put two of the medics on the confirmed mafia and one of the medics on df. This way you preserve df and the medic sanctity and mafia is forced to stack on the confirmed mafia.

On March 12 2018 22:36 Holyflare wrote:
I will fight forever to not get lynched then. It is my duty as VT. You can ignore it all you want but I'll be here.

On March 12 2018 23:23 Vivax wrote:
Why are you people still discussing lynching into the PRs before finding the scum in the VTs as was the plan all along?

If you want to be incredibly stupid and prefer to lose town power roles over vanillas, then go ahead. But then don't expect me to put in a shred of effort if I know you are ready to throw the game by voting for me. It's also fucking pointless to defend myself or go read your wrong shit about me cause of the above reason and if I know you are dumb enough to lynch a medic today then you are also dumb enough that my defense wouldn't change anything.

Yes I'm triggered.
Yetserday we were deciding between 5 VTs, today we got it down to the same amount as we have medics and hence there is only one correct play and everyone is still arguing about medic lynches.

So all this day should be between HF, Moosy, Slam fighting it out and you know where I stand. And yes I would lynch HF last.


##Vote Moosy

On March 13 2018 00:28 Vivax wrote:
Slam why do you think Noob is mafia over FF? I'm not able to pick one at this point.

On March 13 2018 00:28 Vivax wrote:
Slam why do you think Noob is mafia over FF? I'm not able to pick one at this point.

On March 13 2018 00:57 Holyflare wrote:


Should I ignore end tinfoil is in qt specific formatting? :p

On March 13 2018 01:59 Vivax wrote:






What happened/who were you sheeping at the time?

On March 13 2018 08:14 Holyflare wrote:
Anyone gonna say anything?

On March 13 2018 12:57 n00bKing wrote:

Yes. I think the most likely scenario is that Koshi was correct, and that Vivax is HF's partner.


Do better. I forgot that I promised I would tell you that you suck, in rayn's stead. You suck, Moosy. Do better.
You may have townread them both before, but now you need to figure out which one of them is the VT scum. We can't perform the Vivax lynch you want unless we are way more sure he's the fake medic than we are about who is the VT scum. (And I mean WAY...MORE...SURE.)

Sadly, the ONLY really important post made by anyone in the entire time I was gone, was this one from Vivax himself (bolding/underlining added for emphasis):

He is exactly right. Day 3 should be all-out WAR between HF, Moosy and Slam to figure out which of them should be the lynch. And then the rest of us weigh the evidence and pick our sides. This is what matters. And if it's a HF/Vivax team, then the reason he's *willing* to remind us that we're supposed to lynch into the VTs is obvious: He thinks that if we lynched into the medics, we'd be more likely to lynch him than we are to lynch Holyflare if we picked a VT. HF, meanwhile, has been ALL about lynching into the medics...until today, when Vivax suddenly became the medic who is clearly the most scumread, and had an avalanche of votes fall onto him at the start of the Phase. Then he tells us there are possibilities where the Night results don't make Vivax scum, and now he magically is willing to get on-board with lynching into the VTs, even if it means killing Moosy, who had been a PERENNIAL townread for him, and whose odds of being Town shot UP dramatically with the new information that points to DF being Town. I said at the end of Night 2 that the scum team was probably either Moosy/DF or HF/Vivax. Koshi said the scum team is HF/Vivax. N2 results then showed us that DF is probably Town, which means the voting record tells us Moosy is probably Town. The N2 results ALSO gave us new reasons to scumread Vivax. Yet HF suddenly no longer wants to lynch into the medics, and is ready to lynch Moosy straight through his long-standing townread of him. And Vivax, though reminding us we should lynch a VT claim, doesn't want to lynch Holyflare, either. How is this difficult, people?

Oh yes. That's comin.

On March 13 2018 13:58 n00bKing wrote:
@Alakaslam: Why are you voting against Moosy? Why is he scum?

@Vivax: Why are you voting against Moosy? Why is he scum?

@Holyflare: Why are you voting against Moosy? Why is he scum? He was supposed to be a townread of yours, what happened?

No wait, I already know the answer to that last one. You're voting against Moosy today (despite townreading him all this time) because you think that after he flips town, it'll be easier to get Alakaslam shot on N3, than the other way around.

If Moosy is lynched today and flips town, who here has confidence in Alakaslam winning the war of words against HF on N3, and making HF the N3 VT kill, instead of it being himself? Nope, you fools will probably let HF lead you around by the noses again, make Alakaslam the N3 kill, watch him flip town just like Moosy did, and that will be the 4th and fatal mistake that Koshi told you that you couldn't afford to make. Because you had FOUR shots in the VT pool and missed them ALL, because you couldn't open your eyes and put HF in this noose, despite all of the ways he's tried to HELP...the MAFIA...WIN.

Holyflare told you all that he'd solved who the VT scum was, and that it was Koshi. Go back and read HF's stated reasons for scumreading Koshi. They're GARBAGE. But whaddya know? HF was able to convince Vivax & FF to make Koshi their target anyway, and then FF afk'd EoN which tied our hands, and Koshi died. And flipped town.

Holyflare told you Moosy is town, and that it was Koshi and not Moosy who should be killed on N2. Why kill Koshi ahead of Moosy? Because just as HF's ideas and plans are bad for town, Koshi's were GOOD for town. Go back and read HF's stated reasons for townreading Moosy. They, too, are GARBAGE. Why are his reasons for townreading Moosy garbage? So he can toss them aside, once it becomes convenient to do so!

I even TOLD ALL OF YOU that this would happen, ALL the way back on Page 63, when I first posted the case against Holyflare (which you should read again, because not a word of it has been disproven. Here's the relevant excerpt to this particular point though:

Boy, did I call it or WHAT? Somehow I KNEW that even despite HF's townread on Moosy, he would wind up trying to get Moosy lynched on D3 anyway, once Koshi was out of the way. And he's doing exactly what I said a scum HF would do, even though the N2 results gave him an excuse to FINALLY lynch into the medics and go after Vivax, and even though the N2 results are town-indicative for Moosy.

Wake up, wake up, wake up!

On March 13 2018 19:09 darthfoley wrote:
Idk, it seems surface level obvious that the teams are something like

NK/Moosy
Vivax/HF
Maybe Vivax/Moosy if they were trying to distance. Would still be quite a risky play though considering one of the "3" medics on koshi could've cowboyed back onto Moosy.

I think i'm fine lynching Moosy --> HF and if Slam is scum we can laugh about it post game. If Moosy flips town, Vivax and HF look pretty bad.

On March 13 2018 19:11 darthfoley wrote:
If the team is FF/Slam i'm going to commit seppuku

On March 13 2018 19:17 Holyflare wrote:


A VERY real possibility you know.

On March 14 2018 00:47 Vivax wrote:


Let's say we lynch moosy, we vig HF and one doc dies. We lynch slam. Now it's two docs vs you and DF. Mafia wins.

On March 14 2018 04:10 Holyflare wrote:


It's really not bull shit and I hope you stick around to actually answer some questions.

All since the beginning of the game you have repeatedly said it is NK/HF and not much else. Eventually you backed down to just NK and now you're voting me based on a case from NK that is incredibly cherry picked and contains twisted truths. Explain why I am mafia over Moosy or yourself and why you have gone full circle to thinking I am mafia.

Did you even explain why you thought NK and HF were a mafia team to begin with? I don't remember. Please do so again.

I would like you to not be someone that sits around posting nonsense like usual and actually get involved with the game because I do not want to be lynched and then the choice is either between you who has opportunistically gone for the lynch flavour of the thread several times or Moosy who has done not much.

So, please play properly slam.

On March 14 2018 04:22 Holyflare wrote:










You start the game scum reading noobking and give reasons. You throw me into the list for absolutely 0 reasons but then back off it. I even vote noobking with you, who you think is mafia.

Then after the Kelsier lynch you still scum read noobking.




basically town read



still just nk


I'm clear



still NK/town read me



vote moosy with me to follow a plan



confirms moose as mafia



textbook noobking scum



ff textbook scum too??



still nk is mafia



OPPORTUNISTIC AS FUCK VOTE SINCE I'M NOW THE THREAD FLAVOUR

On March 14 2018 04:38 Holyflare wrote:
Slam don't you dare disappear.

On March 14 2018 04:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
I'm not mafia I'm warming up to lynching slam. Had a meeting all lunch but i get a break before deadline still.


Did daylight savings time affect deadline? My time went forward an hour

On March 14 2018 04:52 Holyflare wrote:
What? If I'm mafia I would absolutely just keep arguing with noobking for the entirety of the game. Never ever stopping. Nobody ever wants to lynch into the medic claims so I'm stuck lynching between a 50/50 mafia slot. If you're not mafia and I am most definitely not mafia then it's simply between moosy and rsoultin.

On March 14 2018 04:54 Holyflare wrote:
Only affects muricans since the host is Euro.

On March 14 2018 04:57 Holyflare wrote:


I have a few questions about this actually. If you look at it from my perspective and you assume I'm town and have a town read on yourself for pushing things I've liked all game and a town read on moosy for tone and a town read on rsoultin for being shot and not really pushing scummy things which is the first one to go if one of them is definitely mafia?

Do I ditch the person I tone read town in a moment of heat at deadline and now that I look at his content he hasn't actually said anything (Moosy).

Do I ditch the town read on the person that has agreed with me on Noobking and has kind of been the only one all game (you)

Do I ditch the person that got "medic saved" and has been generally well behaved (rsoul) comparatively to normal?

On March 14 2018 05:08 Vivax wrote:


Got em boys

On March 14 2018 05:28 Fecalfeast wrote:

All the way west. Also canada don't lump me in with you trump likers.


##unvote
##vote moosydoosy

On March 14 2018 06:26 Holyflare wrote:


?
?
?
?
???????????????????????????????


?!?"!?!??!??!??!

On March 14 2018 06:26 Holyflare wrote:
What the fuck is that bolded crap.

On March 14 2018 06:33 Holyflare wrote:
What kind of fucked up open ended read is "it's either noobking and vivax and holyflare or slam" when noobking has pushed holyflare ALL GAME NON-STOP and vice versa and slam has also been all over noobking.

None of noobking+slam/hf makes sense. I don't know why people even utter those names together. Vivax/hf I can see why people would say it but today has been 0% about me trying to cover for vivax when I gut reaction voted him at the start of the day, called moosy confirmed town at the eod last time AND thought vivax was confirmed mafia before I reasoned it out.

It's such a bull shit cop out.

On March 14 2018 06:35 darthfoley wrote:


And you guys have really made a lot of progress killing each other!!! Couldn't be scum buddies ever!

On March 14 2018 06:53 Vivax wrote:
I've spent the second half of this fucking day bashing my head on a table trying to get a read on you cuz self doubts and you weren't around but hey let's just get back into the thread ignore all of it, call HF mafia when he played it the way you should have.

This day was crucial cause it's the day we decide whether to lynch on tinfoil or on "sensible" terms like HF called it.

On March 14 2018 06:55 Holyflare wrote:


and I wasn't!??!?!?!?!!??!

On March 14 2018 06:57 MoosyDoosy wrote:

what do you mean by this. I flip town here you kill holyflare next. I think last scum has to be vivax but you can look over vivax/noobking again and decide from there. How are we fucked

On March 14 2018 07:04 n00bKing wrote:
Wow, this is lotsa new pages.

What are the talking points I need to read up on most?

And does anyone have an up-to-date vote count?

On March 14 2018 07:07 Holyflare wrote:



like 90% of the game

On March 14 2018 07:11 darthfoley wrote:
Oh also the whole thing about the NKs being bad is jusy sikly.

AMG is a good player who was pretty hard Town read early on and was correct about prplhz. Sensible NK.

Rsoultin was literally 100% townread and wasn't gonna be lynched in the next two cycles for sure, regardless of her role as VT. She was basically another medic for all intents and purposes.

Neither was a bad NK and this narrative that HF and Vivax are pushing that the NKs were suboptimal because the NKs weren't HF/Vivax is lame as fuck

On March 14 2018 07:17 rsoultin wrote:
Moosy not dying means most likely (barring something stupid from scum like scum not being around to change actions or trying to game me instead of taking kills like sensible scummers)

means one of him and Vivax are mafia. Perhaps both, but I don't find this particularly likely.

Viva feels towny to me for several reasons which, yes, including the tinfoil.

Independently of that, I like HF's energy right after the nk actions which, given how poorly they'd gone and it was late for us euros, does not strike me as the normal reaction for scum. And slam is giving me town vibes that could be an awful read but whatever; he seems too aimless to me to be actively pushing scum agenda, which I feel he'd need to be if he plans on winning this game regardless of who he is with.

Moosy fell off hard. See the read on HF? Sure, he could just be busy, but he's fallen off hard for me since D1 practically. And yes I went back through meta and found that largely inconclusive, Moosy.

I may be wrong, but everything points to you being scum.

On March 14 2018 07:22 n00bKing wrote:
OMG, guys! I can't believe we missed this!

I just had a brainstorm!

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 14 2018 07:23 rsoultin wrote:
-facedesks-

On March 14 2018 07:24 n00bKing wrote:
Again, is there a case against Moosy anywhere that I can look at? Or does it not exist, and we're just lynching him because we're stupid?

On March 14 2018 07:26 rsoultin wrote:


That was directed at DF...I started your video but I think that can be reserved until after deadline lol ><

On March 14 2018 07:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Does anyone else see what I'm seeing or am I bugging out ???

On March 14 2018 07:31 n00bKing wrote:

Who cares right now, how much easier HF manipulates the town into a Slam mislynch, vs. how easily he manipulates the town into a Moosy mislynch? He's going to get them BOTH.

Who cares right now, how dumb the kills were or weren't? Is that helping you know where to put your vote? None of this shit looks productive!

IS THERE A CASE ON MOOSY?

On March 14 2018 07:32 MoosyDoosy wrote:
holyflare flips his playstyle 180 this day phase, darthfoley comes in with literally the worst posts of all time, vivax doesn't answer any of my questions

lmao what is going on

On March 14 2018 07:36 rsoultin wrote:


0.o Maybe you can say what in the video you wanted to convey? I just don't think the thread isn't going to run away during an eight minute video.

On March 14 2018 07:39 rsoultin wrote:


So you're saying that my read is bad because it would just appear aimless when it really wasn't?

On March 14 2018 07:41 Holyflare wrote:


I have to rethink based on flip.

On March 14 2018 07:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:

@holyflare hello

On March 14 2018 07:51 MoosyDoosy wrote:

What does PoE mean? Explain?

On March 14 2018 07:55 n00bKing wrote:

I like how your tl;dr is more lines than any of your other posts. Anyway, enjoy being dead. And Alakaslam, enjoy being the N3 kill! zzzzzz

On March 14 2018 07:56 darthfoley wrote:


n3 kill?

On March 14 2018 08:02 rsoultin wrote:
FUCK YES! I made up for prp!

-throws hearts at hf and slam-

Welcome to that confirmed town life \o/

On March 14 2018 08:02 Holyflare wrote:
HAH
HAH

FUCK YOU

On March 14 2018 08:04 Holyflare wrote:
lol the game is over because medic mafia cannot win no matter what

gg noobking

On March 14 2018 08:08 rsoultin wrote:
-bounces around-

I haven't done the maths but I can't imagine there's a path to victory at this point.

On March 14 2018 08:10 darthfoley wrote:
just gonna say

vigidocc'd scum n1
cowboy save n2
scum lynch d3

big boy plays

On March 14 2018 08:17 rsoultin wrote:


Lol what?

On March 14 2018 08:18 rsoultin wrote:


I haven't worked out if mafia can still win but I don't think so.

On March 15 2018 05:30 Fecalfeast wrote:


Just to humour you... who is the vt faking medic if hf is scum?

On March 15 2018 05:38 n00bKing wrote:
Don't know how much longer the game will end up taking. I'll probably check in it here and there. But in case I'm not around for the post-game, I'll go ahead and give a couple of thoughts now.

I think the game culture here is pretty toxic.

The idea that rsoul would feel like she has to defend HF regarding his anti-town behavior because "he pushes the mafia agenda while he's town" is baffling. The idea that HF would himself tell me he shouldn't be scum-read for pushing the mafia agenda because he would do it while town is baffling. The fact that it was true he was town in this game is insane.

NO player should EVER be forced into a position where they have to defend someone else from the noose, on the basis of "he tries to help the scum team even when he's town." Why would a town player do that? I've still never heard an excuse for it, just that he DOES it. Why??! That should be a viable reason to scumread someone, over and over and over.

In this game, I caught Holyflare in 3 separate instances of trying to push us in scum-favored directions, instead of just following the ALREADY-ESTABLISHED pro-town plan. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.

I also caught him in both logical inconsistencies AND the use of logical fallacies. The false dichotomy I caught him trying to use was terrible. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.

In his attacks on his scumreads and in his defenses of himself, he very consistently said things that simply were not true. That could be verified as untrue if anyone just *actually* went back to look, as I did. I repeatedly said that if anyone just goes back and actually looks at the way [occasion] happened, they'll see that he can only be mistaken or LYING, and nothing else. Seemingly, no one ever looked but me. When the argument between the two of us reached its apex, he was putting a falsehood in at least every other post. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.

I don't want to play in games where these are not reliable indicators of scum play, because there is a guy who plays anti-town in his town for no reason. I want to play in games where finding someone *actively working* to help scum win the game...is probably scum. And if I were hosting a game, I would probably ask HF not to participate in it, so that the other players could play the game the way it's meant to be played. I think the way he played this game is against the very spirit of the game itself, and robs other players of the experience they are intended to have. The other places I play, someone like HF couldn't exist for very long. He would have been RELIGIOUSLY lynched for his scum-favored play (and yes, mislynched sometimes, if that's what it took) until he LEARNED BETTER.

You also have a big "afk players" problem. I talked about this 2 or 3 years ago, but if this game is any indication? Your problem here has only gotten worse, and not better.

On the site I play most often, we don't even hold open "replacement" slots during registration. If a game fills, it starts. And even if it's a 25-player game, we don't expect that a "replacement" will definitely be needed. People sign up because they want to play.

This game, meanwhile, took over TWO WEEKS to fill, even though it required only 13 players. And then, of those 13 signups, FOUR of them did not actually play. Four of Thirteen! And that's if you say Fecalfeast DID play (which is generous. I would usually expect a player with that little activity to be pressured for "lurking" except we had several players who were somehow doing even less.)

chaoser and damdred were replaced, and prplhz and Kelsier easily *could* have been replaced. That's really...REALLY bad. Even one of the replacements (Alakaslam) never really did anything, and less than half of his posts were game-related.

I don't know if your bad-game-environment problem can be fixed at this point or not. If so, I don't know if you solve it through more aggressively lynching afk players, or if you solve it with harsher penalties for players who sign up and then don't play. But hopefully you can find SOMEthing to do about it. Or things will just remain a cesspool here. This is probably the LEAST happy I've ever been, about winning a game. Whenever the scum medic does flip, what am I gonna "celebrate" about this victory? Where 4 signups didn't play, one of the other signups played a scum-favored game while he was town, and none of the other players seemed to care that he was doing it. Yay.

I would say the likelihood is Fecalfeast > DF > Vivax, for finding the mafia medic. I would say "good luck" except that, given the way HF played this game, and given that he turned out to be town....I can't say I even care anymore either.

Peace.