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Newbie Student Mafia IX
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On April 21 2015 07:20 rsoultin wrote: ! celeste! hihi ^^ so glad you decided to give it another whirl lol Well its been a good while so I figured it can't hurt. Plus I passed my Viva so all I have left to do for my PhD is submit my corrections and its all done so...yeah less stress now too. And you appear to be going up in the world. Co-hosting now? | ||
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And you're going to be observing me? Should I be worried? | ||
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And yeah its pretty gratifying to nearly be finished. sicklucker in as well? Veritable reunion going on for Newbie Mini Mafia LX scum-side people. X-D | ||
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On April 30 2015 09:46 The Shining wrote: Best part is, I scummed you both times. Just didn't case it. So if I smell scum, I'm coming at you full speed. Like a train. Or a wrecking ball. A wrecking train. I'm surprised you haven't voted him already. | ||
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On May 02 2015 05:15 disformation wrote: Present and accounted for. You have two PMs. Yes, two because I suck at reading. Hopefully that will work better, when the game actually starts. Tbh I'm kinda hyped/nervous. xD Just remember not edit your posts like some dumbass did last game I played and you'll be fine. ...yes, that dumbass was me. >_> | ||
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On May 02 2015 07:17 Blazinghand wrote: typically editing is a mistake that gets made once every newbie game. don't sweat it! we all learn My problem is that I'll post and then if its a long one I'll typically edit it like five times minimum. Was a very hard habit to break. X-D | ||
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Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: Reads: Tictock has posted nothing. So I got nothing. Neutral. y0su hasn't really posted very much but I think this is their first game? None of the posts so far come across as being scared, on the other hand ALL of their posts since the game started have been basically off-topic with no real attempt to push anyone or draw any reads. Neutral, want to see some actual worthwhile stuff pretty fast though or that'll start drifting red. disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town. scott31337 was REALLY quick to jump on a HtS vote after Superbia claimed that HtS saying she was away wasn't in her filter. And he didn't take the time to check it himself. That's either incredibly sloppy play or he's scum. ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. The Shining decent filter length (not many people on two pages), asking for opinions, pressuring people. Not exactly opening strong on his reads but I seem to remember him playing the same game last time around with "I can't do day 1" so I'm almost inclined to believe it. Also picked up on the HtS thing. Probably town. Half the Sky already said she wouldn't be here until tomorrow evening. Not giving her a free pass for the whole of "Daytime 1" but for now I can't really say anything here. Superbia early vote on HtS, then either misses her post in the filter dives or flat out lies about it (I'm thinking the former because it's a REALLY easy lie to prove wrong). Also went for the easy pressure on disinformation (like ritoky) and since the HtS thing fell apart hasn't done much. FecalFeast appears to be both engaging people, picking at things that don't fit and also supremely relaxed. Town. prplhz hasn't done much except making vague comments about how he doesn't like The Shining's initial post. Can't really say more without seeing more. sicklucker posted nothing. Withholding judgement. Stutters695 again posted nothing. However he stated "going to catch up real quick." and then didn't follow up on it. Neutral until he does something worth having. Initial thoughts: I could place Superbia and scott in a mafia team together here. HtS is inactive, Superbia puts up a pressure vote and then posts that she didn't say she was going to be away (although it's a pretty easy lie to prove false, so it's more likely he just missed it). Him missing it in and of itself isn't necessarily alignment indicative; but scott's reaction and total trust that Superbia is telling the truth is a gigantic red flag for me, since mafia team members would inherently trust each other's comments like that. scott votes as well in order to start getting pressure on HtS and maybe start a vote train because people are fairly easily swayed on day 1 and in the meantime the two of them can feed off free town credit as being people who were leading a vote train. Although scott would have really weird luck to roll mafia so often. Other than that I'm going to point my final finger at ritoky from the simple lack of anything useful despite a fair few posts in here; plus the circumstantial evidence of both him and Superbia pressuring the same guy. Also was recently making excuses for Superbia who I've got a bad feeling about. Queries: Stutters - care to follow up on your "catching up" comment? Some reads, if you please. Would also like to see something from prplhz and ritoky. Both have been in the thread since the start here but neither have posted much of anything. | ||
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If I had to vote right now I'd put it on scott. His response to Superbia's note that HtS didn't say that she was going to be away was terrible. Either he was bandwagonning with a fellow mafia or he's town playing in a way that is absolutely detrimental to a town win (by blindly trusting what someone claimed without checking it themselves). Either way its a liability. | ||
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On May 03 2015 11:45 Fecalfeast wrote: sicklucker HAS posted, only 2 posts IIRC His two posts are these: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=7#131 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=7#134 A broken BB code post trying to embed a town claim in spoilers and him asking "Scott are you the dude that always posts in obs qts?" doesn't really amount to anything substantial to me I'm afraid. X-D | ||
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On May 03 2015 11:48 Fecalfeast wrote: Not sure if this was written after mine/ritoky's posts but that's a good thought process if you wrote this first I was writing it when you guys were posting. | ||
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On May 03 2015 11:49 y0su wrote: you're (both) doing a good job convincing me that the filter miss would have just been a mistake Personally I think the filter miss of Superbia WAS a simple mistake, an oversight. But scott's response to it was either terrible town play or a gleeful scum play jumping on HtS not being around in an attempt to take a leading role in a lynch for some early town credit. I know the whole associative reads between Superbia and scott isn't the best way to do it; but given how mafia team members would inherently trust what each other posts I don't think its too far of a stretch. Everything on ritoky is circumstantial. But its my best third read at the moment to round the team off. | ||
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On May 03 2015 11:56 ritoky wrote: then what do you make of shining's vote pressure and desire to push SL into actively playing D1? I don't like pressure votes but accept that its a valid tactic. I don't really have a problem with Shining doing that. As far as sicklucker goes simply saying "I don't play Day 1s" and then trying to wave that around as an excuse to just lurk doesn't really fly with me. You're wasting an entire lynch period that you could be using to hunt for scum. It doesn't make sicklucker look great at all and if he really DOESN'T play then he's definitely going to drift red for me. That being said as a day 1 lynch its just policy, and isn't worth doing unless there really aren't any better targets. | ||
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On May 03 2015 12:05 scott31337 wrote: Never checked voting thread-Celestial Never voted for HtS-Me Don't play dumb. You voted HtS in-thread before Superbia posted a link to the voting thread and before you realised there was a voting thread. Proof: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#210 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#211 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#217 On May 03 2015 09:34 scott31337 wrote: EBWOP ##Unvote ##Vote: Half the Sky On May 03 2015 09:38 Superbia wrote: Vote here boys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484531-newbie-student-mafia-ix-voting-thread On May 03 2015 09:40 scott31337 wrote: Oh we do have a thread - last one didn't.. ty Now you're misrepresenting what happened in an attempt to make me look bad and yourself look good. Keep an eye on me all you like but you're looking scummier by the minute and its certainly enough for me to put a vote on you. ##Vote: scott31337 | ||
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More lies and misrepresentation. Scum alarm going off in my head. | ||
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On May 03 2015 12:14 scott31337 wrote: I actually meant to vote. + Show Spoiler + but wanted to see Celestial's reaction with posting only in the voting thread. He didn't mention I did vote for SL though - who he says hasn't posted either You're talking nonsense now. Yes, you voted for Sicklucker. Well, in-thread again, not in the actual vote topic. But you did that AFTER your case against HtS fell apart. Given that I'm pretty sure you're scum now my guess is that after you saw you couldn't get away with going after one inactive you went after a different one. In any case, that vote is irrelevant to how you played the HtS situation. And I've played precisely one other game. Which was the one with you and I was the Mafia Roleblocker that game. Feel free to check it if you want, its in my profile (I think I stole the profile style from HtS). If you don't believe that's my only one then feel free to check the mafia database, I'm second in the player records section: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/390080-tl-mafia-database | ||
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On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote: So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh? What? Did you actually miss the entire point of my case on you? I'll spell it out: the case on you is NOT because you voted HtS. Its because of the fact you voted HtS blindly in response to a claim from Superbia that you DID NOT CHECK. That's either terrible town play or pure scum. And you constant misrepresentation of everything here firmly makes me believe scum. I'm going to need to see a damn convincing argument from someone at this point to want to lynch anybody else. Either you're scum or you're playing in a way that is going to make town lose. | ||
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On May 03 2015 12:21 scott31337 wrote: Our last game though - you were pretty dormant though as scum- and trying to jump on a ML so early wouldn't be your style in my opinion. Last game I went dormant after I lost my temper after being interrogated for like six hours straight (after which time ANYONE would look scummy). Prior to that I was in thread massively. If anything, this is actually quite similar to my last game because back then I was trying to set up rsoultin to be mislynched through a complicated series of plans (see the Mafia QT from that game). Since there's only that one game to compare me against you're free to try to make a meta argument, but you only have my mafia play to compare against and no examples of my town play. This post of yours makes me think you're just trying to back down and placate me now to make me leave you alone. Its not going to work. You're scum; and now I'm going to work out who your buddies are. | ||
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On May 03 2015 12:44 scott31337 wrote: I think FF, Superbia and Shining are town. FF because he's asking questions and pushing us forward. Superbia on meta and posts very little as scum and and I don't see that so far. Shining because we're connecting and having the same ideas. Sicklucker and prplhz are in the scummy pile for actually showing up and having shit posts. I think Celestial could be town - the push is so early on me makes me wonder. Two easy to make town calls, at least that's my feeling on FF and Shining. Hell, they're the two strongest town calls that I put out myself in my initial reads post. Plus a similar shoutout for Superbia. In my opinion this is smart mafia play whichever side Superbia is on. If he's mafia he's been associated with two townies, if he's not mafia then it sows more confusion. Two extremely easy scum calls because they've not posted much at all so they're soft targets. Nobody is going to defend them because there's not much to defend and they're not here to defend themselves right now; but it sets up nicely to potentially get a policy lynch train going. Reversing direction on me. First I'm scum because I called him out as scum and he willfully attempted to manipulate the facts to try to make me look bad. Then when I call that out for nonsense we get this rapid backpedalling despite the fact that virtually nothing has changed, I'm still calling for his head but apparently that now that means I'm town. My rough translation of the above post: "I, scott31337, am on the scum team. Please lynch me." Anyway its 5am here. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight. | ||
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On May 03 2015 18:27 Tictock wrote: Apologies for being absent the first few hours of the game. My work sometimes has me in as early as 5am, and that is the case for the nest two days. I am a total Mafia noob. Never played a game in my life and until recently never piqued my interest. I've been on TL for a few years now and have seen the Mafia section plenty of times, so when I decided to try my hand at the game I naturally came here. So, given my newbishness, while I have read the thread up to this point (you guys were busy while I slept) I'm not too sure what to make of things. The suspicion around scott seems to have merit, but I will have to do a more thorough read of what transpired when I get some time. I expect I should be done with work by midday and will be more active then. Not alignment indicative, you really need to post something or personally I'm going to start scumming you as a lurker. You're waving that newbie flag way too hard (which I did in my very first game too, to hide the fact I was mafia). On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote: Celestial likely mafai. Introductory lists posts like that more often come from mafia than from town. Mafia feel like they need to contribute and are usually afraid to make a casual entry. The entire thing also starts off with an excuse: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go. Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: What are you apologizing for? This feels like you yourself don't have any faith in your reads. This is likely because you had to fabricate them due to being mafia, because you feel confident enough to start a wagon on scott. Also, starting off with an apology for being late is pretty mafia. I have absolute confidence in my reads actually. My comment about keeping an eye on games was meant to be directed at the fact that I'm not using people's prior game experience as a source of info because I was expecting people to throw the usual "he/she/I alway(s) plays like this!" stuff at me in response to my reads. My apology was directed at the fact that I'd not been in thread yet and people were calling for me to say something. Nice misrepresentation here but no, I'm not mafia this time out. And "introductory list post is mafia"? Really? It was a solid wall of my thoughts on everyone up to that point with fingers pointed at three people. What a joke. There's also a flagrant disparity between what you say about disformation and ritoky (which leads me to believe both are town if you end up being mafia): + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town. ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. So you say that you yourself did not like disformation's opening post, but you feel like ritoky is scummy for pushing on him? Is it not townie for ritoky to push on something that may very well be scummy? Furthermore, "easy push"? Since when are you so sure that disformation is town? You're misrepresenting things again here. I already said in my last post that of my three red reads it was the weakest, AND that it wasn't just for the push on disinformation. Stop trying to pretend that it was solely for that push. I didn't like disinformation's opening post, no. But ultimately disinformation has posted stuff other than that so far. ritoky's actions up to that point had been to post garbage and pressure disinformation. Literally nothing else. disinformation's other posts make me somewhat think he's just a very newbie town player with a bad opening post. ritoky on the other hand hadn't posted anything at all to make me think he's not just trying to distract from mafia hunting. Given that both you and scott are scum, ritoky was the one who seemed to be looking to misdirect the most at that point. Rest of your reads are pretty fluffy. >Claiming that a post containing two and a half town reads, three red reads and a bunch of nulls on people who are primarily inactive or new is fluffy in an attempt to make me look wishy-washy and unconfident. Nice try, but you've just confirmed you're mafia. This chainsaw defence you're using for your scum buddy scott proves it. You're attacking his attacker, which is scummy as hell. Admittedly there's an outside chance that you're just OMGUSing me, but I think you're too experienced a player to do that, you're instead trying to save your buddy. At a guess you've told him in the mafia QT to shut up for a bit and stop making himself look worse whilst you try to get a different train going by undermining me and take the heat off him. Mafia team is Superbia and scott31337 + 1 other. Not sure about the last one, still don't like ritoky but can't say for certain. Guys, lets lynch scott. Personally I'm about 95% sure he's mafia at this point and if he's not he's playing in a way detrimental to town anyway. If scott flips red then we can pretty much auto-lynch Superbia and that'll probably get us two reds in two days. If he flips green then I'll have to totally re-evaluate, but I'd be mind blown if he actually did that the way he's playing here. | ||
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On May 03 2015 21:52 Superbia wrote: That associative read between me and scott is pretty reaching and meh. There is no chainsaw defence. You're defending him by attacking me, who also has a red read on you. That's a classic mafia side play. And now you're trying to distance yourself from it by claiming its reaching a bit. There was already an association between the two of you and you made it stronger with your post. You can claim that its reaching all you want but ultimately the association was there BEFORE you posted, you just made it worst. What is/was your red read on ritoky then? Did you feel a need to include him as scum because you felt a need to put down a team of 3? Why did you mention ritoky's push on disinformation? I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted: ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read. Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him. Also, how long did it take you to formulate that response? I.e., when did you read my post and when did you start to post this? Well I woke up forty minutes ago, logged onto KanColle and came on here. So...within the last hour? | ||
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On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote: I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted: To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read. Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him. EBWOP: The push on disinformation was therefore part of the thing (it was an attempt to look townie by asking questions and pressuring, but doing it to someone who is an easy target) but not the whole thing, so stop trying to pretend it is to defend your scum buddy. | ||
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On May 03 2015 22:07 Superbia wrote: The problem with this logic is that all that you're saying is that this is my agenda, you're not proving it. Why am I not town trying to figure out your alignment? Because I already had you down as a likely red given scott's slip up earlier outing himself as mafia and fingering you as probably mafia. All you're doing now is trying to find a way to save him and yourself into the bargain, and digging yourself a deeper hole in the process because I'm not buying it This is just your latest indicator of being scum. I can't actually prove what you're thinking because I'm not telepathic, but every marker points to you being scum. Towards the close of play I fully expect you to bus him if he still looks like he's going down. In the hope that it'll get you town cred. You have a number of people as null/neutral based on them not discussing the game or actively doing anything (iirc). Why is ritoky scum for doing this? Neutrals from my initial post: Ticktock - hadn't posted basically anything at all. y0su - hadn't posted much and much of it was off topic, but is a newbie and isn't "posting scared". This was a bit of a tone read and I already stated if I don't start seeing something substantial from him soon its going to go red. Half the Sky - had already stated she wouldn't be about until this evening. prplhz - hadn't posted much except vague comments on The Shining. The longer it goes without him posting something substantial he'll start drifting red, but there wasn't much to work with initially. sicklucker - I addressed this a few pages ago. Stutters695 - hardly posted but stated he was going to "catch up quick". So I called him out on that. ritoky of all of him HAD actually posted a fairly substantial amount but the majority of it was garbage and nonsense, not scum hunting. Hence why I had him red. In short I was neutral reading people who had hardly posted, but I was red reading ritoky because he HAD posted and it was mostly garbage; nothing actually substantial at all. At least by that point. Incidentally, Stutters, I'm still waiting. Reads, if you please. You've posted since I posted that initial set but you didn't respond to my request for reads. Or are you just going to outright ignore it? | ||
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On May 03 2015 23:08 Superbia wrote: Celestial, you are a meta-esque player, correct? I.e. you prefer to get reads based on the meta-game of that player. No I don't trust meta reads too much but I'll use them if I absolutely have to and have nothing else to go on. Though I much prefer meta reads on players who people have actually played with rather than just studying their game (because the "feel" of actually playing with them can be significant). Current thoughts are that Superbia is still pretty dirty in my eyes. But is actually making a reasonable contribution now, though I dislike the evasiveness with respect to scott. I'm still pretty sure is scum but with a fairly hefty effort I could maybe be convinced otherwise. scott is either playing a terrible, terrible town or is outright scum. And I doubt at this point that anything at all will convince me otherwise. The push onto sicklucker is eh to me. I don't see any evidence of scum behaviour there and the main driving force is Superbia, who I have deep suspicions over, for reasons that for some reason he doesn't want to explain. I don't think it'd be the worst lynch in the world but I also don't think it'll help us much. I'd be very surprised if SL flipped mafia honestly; possible but it seems extremely unlikely. On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote: -c- came in with what I feel was a very bold 1st post (list) that bugged me. why would he pick 3 scum out of the active players and and let others slide just because he didn't have a read (afk/low post count)? The others slide until tomorrow. Then we can start looking to see who is still inactive and which out of them are possibly red. Its kinda hard to draw a conclusion off anyone when they've not posted anything yet. Lynching inactives is a valid play if you have nothing better to go on but in my view we do have something better to go on. My mind would literally be blown if scott flips anything other than the deepest crimson. | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:58 Superbia wrote: Celestial, what do you think of Ritoky at this moment? What do you think of the fact that Ritoky's reads line up with mine? Jury still out. I still think he's looked pretty scummy but he's been getting better and he was, after all, my weakest scum read in the first place. The reads lining up isn't alignment indicative. Could be collusion, could be two people of either side coming up with the same thing, could be sheeping influence from the thread. On May 04 2015 03:02 y0su wrote: the thought of -c- and scott being teammates crossed my mind doesn't feel right (experience might tell me otherwise) I know you have no reason to believe my word on whether or not I'm on a team with scott but if I was on his team I wouldn't have bussed him so early and so quickly. On May 04 2015 03:06 Fecalfeast wrote: -c- you seem really confident for being so new As I mentioned in my last game I've played this quite a lot with people I've been in plays with (its a common team building and warm up activity in rehearsals). Plus I've played the SC2 mod. So I'm pretty comfortable with the game in general, just not the forum format in particular. On a side note unless we seriously get some solid reads out of Stutters695 soon I'm going to start scumming him just for completely ignoring my repeated requests for sets of reads. | ||
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On May 04 2015 03:25 y0su wrote: -c- why is it that necessary to "check-in and out" ? Its not. I was doing it out of courtesy because people were asking me stuff. On May 04 2015 03:35 Stutters695 wrote: I don't really do d1. My reads are ass because there isn't nearly enough info to go off of and I'd rather sheep someone with a better track record or lynch someone who has no intention of playing. I think I've already posted about how much I did in NSM7 lol. Same defence as sicklucker. Sorry I don't really buy it. I've only played one other game of forum-based mafia but it doesn't hurt to start pressuring people from day 1 as ideally with 3 mafia you want one mafia lynch day 1, one day 2 and one day 3. Failing a vigi kill that is. That being said its not enough for me to read you as scum. Not when scott has dug himself that hole to lie in. You're not a d1 lynch in my book. Scott is. Maybe if we had a lack of options but if we don't lynch scott I wouldn't mind seeing a Superbia lynch either because I'm very uncomfortable with his play. On May 04 2015 04:11 y0su wrote: only one spreadsheet? hmm Obviously not trying hard enough. I'm in the middle of generating venn diagrams for everyone in the game plus assocation link spider diagrams. ;P On May 04 2015 04:52 The Shining wrote: I think I found our first scum here, guys. I just can't understand the town motivation here. I'm scum. Undecided on Scott. But our interactions were shady. Too much easy trusting and maybe pocketing. But I'm suspicious of Scott? So how am I pocketing? This leads to Super NOT BEING INTERESTED IN A SCOTT LYNCH. WHICH LEADS TO HIM GETTING ON THE SL WAGON. Wtf bro? I'm scum, right? Why are you voting on MY wagon? This could be an attempt to save scummate Scott. I like this post. A lot. Although it may be because I'm tunneling so hard on the "scott and Superbia are mafia team" thing. I'll take another look when I'm sober. I have to say I don't like all of these "I don't do day 1" excuses. I can understand WHY but it comes across as a supremely easy way to lurk as a mafia. If there were a total lack of other reads I'd not hesitate to just policy lynch someone claiming that, despite the fact I don't like policy lynches. The goal is to find mafia, not to wait until D2 and THEN start to find mafia. Anyway I'll try to do a full re-evaluation of everyone tomorrow plus write up the case on scott in full. Pending any change in circumstances of course. I can't do it now because I've had far too much to drink. I'd be happy with a lynch of scott or Superbia at this point. scott for preference because even if he is town his play is detrimental to a win; plus assuming scott flips red (which is looking highly likely) I think we can almost auto-lynch Superbia unless he drastically changes his tune (and even then could just be bussing). Anyone else would be a fairly weak lynch I think. I'll probably be about a bit but I'm kinda woozy and might drop out at any moment. If anyone wants to ask questions hopefully I'll catch them before I drop off. | ||
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Game starts with a bunch of non-alignment indicative things. Although I really don't like the whole thing of people posting "yay I'm town" because it honestly just comes across as insincere to me. He made a comment about keeping an eye on veterans he's seen play, specifically Superbia and sicklucker: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 08:07 scott31337 wrote: Keep an eye on a couplne of the veterans I've seen play a lot, I made some notes about them and things to look for. Beyond that - find the scummy ones! and of course, have fun. + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 08:11 scott31337 wrote: You and sick. Sick pulls out some weird off the wall plays. We'll see how things progress. Other than that his first nine posts don't really show anything at all. He makes random comments about how he's going to play the game and banters a little with Shining without actually pressuring. Not really alignment indicative but he's pretty much just meandering around off-topic. Admittedly this was very early on. Then came the whole HtS incident. Something I missed last time was that he ACTUALLY MADE AN EXCUSE FOR HTS BEFORE JUMPING ON THAT WAGON: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:11 scott31337 wrote: It's past 1am for HtS - we'll see on her. I'm not caring for SL either, he did his shitty spoiler town post and went poof So yeah, he himself makes an excuse for HtS and seems to completely accept that she just wouldn't be about, despite Superbia's initial criticism of her not being around. Superbia makes a jokey comment about giving people a pass because of timezones. Then Shining points out that HtS said she'd pick it up on the second day: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:28 The Shining wrote: He did ask if you were the obs dude, as well. As for HTS, I'm slightly hesitant there. That's pure policy to me. It's late for her and it's the weekend. She said she'd pick it up tomorrow. Then comes the rather damning part. Superbia posts the following: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:31 Superbia wrote: UHOH On May 03 2015 09:33 Superbia wrote: It's not in her filter. :D Scott outright accepts this at face value. No attempt to question it. Either he's gleefully jumping on a train that someone else has started early, over-excited that he's caught someone lying and can get an early mislynch; or he's accepting what a mafia buddy is saying because he inherently trusts Superbia due to being on the same team. NO TOWN WOULD PLAY THIS WAY. There's an outside possibility it's just one of the worst town moves ever, but I don't buy that excuse. If scott is town then based on this he's an outright liability. + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:33 scott31337 wrote: UT OH On May 03 2015 09:34 scott31337 wrote: EBWOP ##Unvote ##Vote: Half the Sky It was at this point Superbia points out to scott that there's a voting thread and scott notices it. This will become relevant later: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:38 Superbia wrote: Vote here boys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484531-newbie-student-mafia-ix-voting-thread On May 03 2015 09:40 scott31337 wrote: Oh we do have a thread - last one didn't.. ty It's also at this point that he throws a vote onto sicklucker. This is pure sheeping of Shining's pressure vote as far as I can tell and I think it was done just so that someone else other than him had votes on them. He doesn't give any justification for putting it on sicklucker. Though it's worth noting he's still not putting it in the damn voting thread. + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:43 scott31337 wrote: Thought it would be too ez Okay then, SL it is for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Sicklucker He finally does some research himself and initially I think he thinks he can probably get the HtS ball rolling again until he realises there really IS a post by HtS saying she would be away: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:45 scott31337 wrote: That HtS message was posted on April 25th/last week. I don't think that counts Nobody knew the game was starting Saturday until a couple days ago. On May 03 2015 09:47 scott31337 wrote: nm she posted another inactive Sunday post Then there's not much for a while. He asks ritoky for thoughts which aren't provided, but he doesn't follow it up with pressure on ritoky despite the fact that ritoky is basically posting nonsense. Then he goes off talking about the fight for a few posts and seems to be sitting pretty until I finally post my entry and tear into him over the HtS thing. He responds by outright LYING by misrepresenting what he did and trying to put suspicion on me: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:05 scott31337 wrote: Never checked voting thread-Celestial Never voted for HtS-Me A reads list is nice but you are going in the slightly scummy pile for now. Superbia actually voted for HtS in the voting thread- but you went more on me for it Interesting. Sick actually posted, but that could be understandable. I'm keeping an eye on you. Which I absolutely nailed him to the wall for, and his response was enough for me to put my vote on him: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:14 -Celestial- wrote: Don't play dumb. You voted HtS in-thread before Superbia posted a link to the voting thread and before you realised there was a voting thread. Proof: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#210 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#211 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=11#217 Now you're misrepresenting what happened in an attempt to make me look bad and yourself look good. Keep an eye on me all you like but you're looking scummier by the minute and its certainly enough for me to put a vote on you. ##Vote: scott31337 Prior to this he'd also replied to ritoky and FF in which he tried to claim he did mean to vote...but he wanted to see my reaction to him having not voted in the voting thread. So which is it? Either you meant to vote and it was a mistake therefore you screwed up and can't use it as a defence. Or you deliberately didn't vote in the thread to try to set up a trap that...actually wouldn't reveal anything that's alignment indicative and therefore a stupid plan. He also tries to cast suspicion on me, in part by bringing up the fact that I didn't mention that he voted sicklucker, which was frankly only tangentially relevent to the HtS thing. More misidrection. + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:14 scott31337 wrote: I actually meant to vote. + Show Spoiler + but wanted to see Celestial's reaction with posting only in the voting thread. He didn't mention I did vote for SL though - who he says hasn't posted either He then tries to scum me with HtS. Two birds with one stone I guess. + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote: So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh? An argument which I annihilated again: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:24 -Celestial- wrote: What? Did you actually miss the entire point of my case on you? I'll spell it out: the case on you is NOT because you voted HtS. Its because of the fact you voted HtS blindly in response to a claim from Superbia that you DID NOT CHECK. That's either terrible town play or pure scum. And you constant misrepresentation of everything here firmly makes me believe scum. I'm going to need to see a damn convincing argument from someone at this point to want to lynch anybody else. Either you're scum or you're playing in a way that is going to make town lose. He then starts his backpedalling after realising that I'm not backing down to go defensive, that he can't easily fool people into thinking I'm scum and that I'm still gunning for him: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:21 scott31337 wrote: Our last game though - you were pretty dormant though as scum- and trying to jump on a ML so early wouldn't be your style in my opinion. Except this is pretty much wrong too. I went dormant last game when I was scum as a result of me losing my temper after a six hour straight interrogation (or something like that, can't remember exactly, too long ago) which made me utterly sick of the game and wanting out of it. Before then I'd been pretty active. I don't like meta arguments generally (although him having actually played with me makes it a bit better) but now he's misrepresenting my meta from my prior game in order to flip around and to try to townread me to maybe placate me a bit. Not buying it. Then he starts the excuses: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:31 scott31337 wrote: You are right - I did not check it until afterwards. I did not re-read the pre-game excuses until afterwards. That was my fault. I got better backing when I roll scum anyway - I wouldn't have made such a dumb mistake. We have plenty of time - we will have convincing arguments for you Translation: "Yes I was a dumbass, but I'm town really, please believe me!" Sorry, no. Also ritoky pointed out the rather hillarious use of "we" here. I don't think this is so much a slipup as an oversight but amusingly could easily be used to refer to himself and his mafia buddies. He then provides some reads. Which I analysed: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:57 -Celestial- wrote: Two easy to make town calls, at least that's my feeling on FF and Shining. Hell, they're the two strongest town calls that I put out myself in my initial reads post. Plus a similar shoutout for Superbia. In my opinion this is smart mafia play whichever side Superbia is on. If he's mafia he's been associated with two townies, if he's not mafia then it sows more confusion. Two extremely easy scum calls because they've not posted much at all so they're soft targets. Nobody is going to defend them because there's not much to defend and they're not here to defend themselves right now; but it sets up nicely to potentially get a policy lynch train going. Reversing direction on me. First I'm scum because I called him out as scum and he willfully attempted to manipulate the facts to try to make me look bad. Then when I call that out for nonsense we get this rapid backpedalling despite the fact that virtually nothing has changed, I'm still calling for his head but apparently that now that means I'm town. My rough translation of the above post: "I, scott31337, am on the scum team. Please lynch me." Anyway its 5am here. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight. His next few posts are just one liners or nothing with any substance. In the meantime Superbia pulls out his chainsaw and starts to use it on me, but that doesn't really work out too well either. If my tentative theory about a Superbia/scott team is true it may be that Superbia told scott in the mafia QT to shut up and let him do what he can to help. Which leads me off into a discussion about ritoky with Superbia. That later stops as well. Though I don't think its quite enough to totally damn Superbia, he's also been playing kinda scummy in my eyes. scott later repeats his previous excuses: + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 02:30 scott31337 wrote: So I jumped a bit to conclusions with HtS - I actually thought that QT information was spilled - I did put a vote in this thread and by the time I found out about the vote thread - I reread her pregame filter with both D1 excuses - from April 25th and from May 1st. There was no need to vote her in the voting thread. I've voted SL for now, he's still at the bottom of my list. I've caught up in the thread - I was about to ask Ritoky about his prplhz read but he explained this already. Before replying to a very easy softball lobbed by Superbia to make it look like he's engaging: + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 02:49 scott31337 wrote: No I did not - She hadn't posted anything in the game - I didn't think of her pre-game filter until it was mentioned. Then I saw the April 25th excuse and stopped there the first time - voted since I thought it was TMI - It was noted it was her May 1st post about being AFK instead. The information made sense, so I let it go. scott's last set of reads are classic mafia: + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 03:53 scott31337 wrote: Here's where I am at - Superbia & Fecalfeast are in the towny pile - driving conversation and going in the right direction - Superbia posts much less as mafia. The Shining is slight town - his reaction here + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:35 The Shining wrote: You guys need to freaking read if you're gonna keep trying to scum EVERYTHING I POST. ffs. y0su-seems to be trying to go in the right direction, although asking a lot of coaching questions in the thread - slight town Celestial - I think him starting his tunnel on me so early is a towny trait - I just don't see him coming off the bat as scum, reading the QT and coming up with this plan. Tictock - one whole post - + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 18:27 Tictock wrote: Apologies for being absent the first few hours of the game. My work sometimes has me in as early as 5am, and that is the case for the nest two days. I am a total Mafia noob. Never played a game in my life and until recently never piqued my interest. I've been on TL for a few years now and have seen the Mafia section plenty of times, so when I decided to try my hand at the game I naturally came here. So, given my newbishness, while I have read the thread up to this point (you guys were busy while I slept) I'm not too sure what to make of things. The suspicion around scott seems to have merit, but I will have to do a more thorough read of what transpired when I get some time. I expect I should be done with work by midday and will be more active then. disinformation - + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 10:42 disformation wrote: Thank you very much. Clarified your stance much better. Well, yes. But this post: Just raises a red flag for me. As I said earlier I have an idea how this could be town motivated. But I don't really see it. Damn. Forgot. =D Have some more: sicklucker - Asked about my obs'ing, made a shit spoiler I'm town post - disappeared. useless The others haven't posted enough yet (or at all) "Everyone is null or town, isn't that nice? Except the one guy I'm voting for, because he's not around right now". Things of note especially being him rating Superbia so highly town along with FF (who I think is a very easy towncall here) and him continuing his read on me gradually turning from scum to town. He's voted sicklucker which means he needs some reason, so he makes him his sole red read on the basis that he's posted hardly anything and then disappeared despite the fact that others who haven't posted enough are simply dismissed as neutral. Of course he rapidly backpedals on that too as soon as sicklucker starts posting: + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 10:21 scott31337 wrote: So Sick's actually doing a few things - an obvtownread on Shining - thinking of voting for me - and says he's already doing shit - so that's a start. I'd like to give him some more time for now to start + Show Spoiler + ##Unvote Super - I understand FF, but Ritoky? What makes you town read without explanation? He asked why I didn't put him in the same pile with FF - but I'm just not seeing him in the "free pass town" pile. I can see your view on Shining but I do think he's town. I think I'll re-read disinformation - that's a very interesting point - I thought it was a little weird on his smileys though. So now everyone is town or neutral. How nice. He's not really pushing anyone except now he's gone back on disinformation who early on was a very soft target who a couple of people were getting suspicious of. I think he's just looking for an easy mislynch train to set up in opposition to the fact that he knows I'm gunning for him and that there's basically no other train rolling. scott is either scum or is playing horribly scummy town. Either way he's a total liability and I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him flip red. | ||
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On May 04 2015 20:52 Half the Sky wrote: The other problem I have with Scott reading his filter (and after page 15 again) is not only that he didn't check Superbia's rationale/whatever but typically if you sheep someone you obviously want to be sure that the person in question is town. Going through his filter, he said he was going to keep an eye on the vets, Superbia being one of them. But if you look at page 1 of Scott's filter, there is not even an inference that he's concluding that Superbia is town nor does he appear confident in the former's reads before sheeping him. So that's another reason to scumread Scott for sure. Nice catch, I actually didn't catch that association. And welcome to the game, HtS. On May 04 2015 20:59 sicklucker wrote: Im pretty sure we coached him to doing a list post so I kind of expect him to do it. Why are listposts frowned apon there my fav. Well people better get used to it because full analysis of everyone so far as my opening post is something I'm planning to do as both alignments into future games. | ||
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On May 04 2015 21:02 Half the Sky wrote: Same. I didn't have a problem with it, but there were at least 2-3 comments I read from others that they didn't like listposts or that listposts were scummy. Eh, if people start lynching me for it then they'll see I do it as both town and scum so they'll quickly learn that its NAI. | ||
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On May 04 2015 21:56 y0su wrote: when did you coach him (-c-) to do a list post? (what alignment?) Mafia. I've only played one other game. I was the Mafia Roleblocker. Link is in my profile. | ||
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On May 04 2015 22:00 y0su wrote: so your mafia coaching is paying off well? Yes. More practically I read a bunch of guides before I started playing that first game and I read how important it is to keep a consistent style. Hence why I'm largely trying to follow a similar style. serious question though, why did your opening list have 3 mafia reads despite so many "too little info" reads? Because I had scott down as a pretty hard scumread and was very uncomfortable about Superbia both by himself and with his association with scott given the whole HtS thing. ritoky was just messing up the thread with insanity, hence timewasting whilst also looking like he's actually doing something which I'm given to understand is another mafia tell. There happened to be three. If there'd been five people looking scummy then I'd have listed five. If scott had been the only one I'd only have listed him. Last game I learned to be more aggressive with posting reads because I opened very softly then by towning/nulling everyone and it looked kinda bad on reflection. | ||
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On May 04 2015 22:04 -Celestial- wrote: Yes. More practically I read a bunch of guides before I started playing that first game and I read how important it is to keep a consistent style. Hence why I'm largely trying to follow a similar style. EBWOP 2: I also realise that this doesn't help my position in this game, but I also don't want to compromise future games by deliberately changing my style just because I was mafia last time and am town this time. | ||
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But with scott and Superbia I'm less unsure. I could maybe be convinced Superbia isn't mafia with a titanic effort and some really good arguments but I doubt the word of god him or herself will be enough to convince me that scott isn't red. If you honestly think I'm trying to get a mislynch then vote for me instead. But if that were to happen then when I flip town I want everyone to go back and look again at the case on scott because to me he's the dirtiest person in here by far. ritoky is eh to me right now. I still don't like the joking around and there's a certain amount of circumstantial evidence linking him with Superbia. But he's also been making more of an effort that he was initially (admittedly that's not hard). Still leaning scum, but on balance I don't think his position has changed too much in my eyes. He's still scummy but still my weakest read and I could be convinced otherwise on him much more easily than scott or Superbia. I was originally planning to write a full new set of reads for everyone today but since there's less than ten hours left and since I really doubt anyone could look worse to me than scott at this point I'm not sure its worth doing until after the flip when I'll have the votes to look at as well. Unless something comes up in the meantime to force me to do it early, of course. | ||
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On May 04 2015 23:20 y0su wrote: It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case. Let me put it another way: I'm not infallible and I'm not running this game so I don't have a list of who is which alignment. That being said if scott isn't mafia then firstly he's being totally useless as a town and secondly I'll have to find a hat to eat. There is no way I can see him as anything other than scum with his actions in this thread. Seven and a half hours remaining. I really can't see anything that indicates that anyone else would be a better day 1 lynch than scott so far. | ||
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On May 05 2015 00:33 disformation wrote: Well, this strikes me as a bit odd as I kinda read this as "At this point I don't care if he is mafia or not". So I kinda get where y0su gets his feeling from. But I don't think that is anywhere close enough to dismiss the case or call -c- scum. Plus I agree on him more likely being scum. But this might me nice to keep on hand for the night phase. scott's grand total contribution so far is to mindlessly accept Superbia's claim that HtS hadn't said anything in-thread about being away, jumping on sicklucker as a different lurker and then rapidly backpedalling on that when sicklucker actually came into the thread, townreading or neutral reading everyone and effectively OMGUSing me for calling him out as a mafia, lying in order to do so, before rapidly backtracking on the accusation and then trying to townread me because everyone else is doing it. At the present he's not scumming anyone at all as far as I can tell. His last set of reads were Superbia and FF as town, Shining and y0su and me null leaning town, Ticktock null, you null leaning scum, sicklucker scum and everyone else null from lack of posts. But he rapidly backpedalled on that sicklucker accusation and vote, thus leaving his strongest negative read being you as null leaning scum which means he's just sitting in the middle ground and playing the game of "everyone is null or town, isn't that nice?" which is a gigantic red flag to me, especially since he doesn't seem to be pressuring anyone at all to actually get a scum read off anyone. If he's town he's not contributing anything worthwhile. But I severely doubt he's anything other than scum. | ||
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On May 05 2015 00:33 disformation wrote: Also regarding ritoky: He also appears very eager to place himself next to the person nearly everyone has a townboner for (FF) and someone who just did a huge push and is very easy to town as well. "Look how towny my nick looks in green." On a side note if FF turns out to be mafia I might just cry. X-D | ||
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On May 05 2015 00:50 sicklucker wrote: So we def kill scott. Then if he flips scum we def kill super. If not maybe hts? I donno this seems solid tho If scott doesn't flip scum I'm seriously going to have to rethink everything. If scott is scum it doesn't 100% make Superbia scum but it increases the likelihood to a threshold that he's going to easily be my top Day 2 lynch. But at this point I'm about 95% certain scott can't be anything other than scum. The more I look over his posts the worse he comes off. | ||
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On May 05 2015 01:03 Half the Sky wrote: Now to be fair, I can't tell if he's saying that ritoky or Superbia is "confirmed" mafia. I think he means Superbia here. For clarity's sake: I was stating that Superbia was the one who was very, very strongly mafia at that point. I was exaggerating a bit to see what his response was, but he's basically second in line behind scott for the chopping block so far as I'm concerned. On May 05 2015 01:03 disformation wrote: 4. Well, if there was anything strange with that post I would be that part. Let us see if -c- has anything to say on that? I don't quite get what you're asking here. Please ask a direct question with a quote and I'll answer. | ||
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I can understand wanting a second target though. | ||
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On May 05 2015 04:24 The Shining wrote: As for Scott, I agree with the points made against him. And if it were any other player, I'd be worried about no one defending him but if he is in fact scum, it would mean he rolled scum every game he's played here. I could understand the lack of defense, lack of posting, possible lack of motivation as someone who is tired of rolling scum as a newbie. To be honest assuming he does flip scum I kinda feel bad for the guy. Its got to absolutely suck to roll it all the time. Just mentally exhausting. :-\ | ||
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On May 05 2015 06:02 scott31337 wrote: Sorry all - I have an inmportant meeting and I won't be around for deadline. I'm VT - and I hadn't played as well as I wanted to - but practice is good. A ML isn't bad for town if they get information from it. I just glanced at the VCA and I'm going with my suspicion that disformation may be scum. He's in a third-trying to fit in vote - and then ritoky asked about it - among the seriousness of his smileys and defensiveness. If there's a cop I would check him. If there's a doc you know NOT to claim and save the towniest guy in your opinion - Don't even claim if your save worked unless you have to. I still think -c- is just on a straight tunnel of me and is town - but he really got the wagon rolling on me. Just rethink the game afterwards, do a vote count analysis, and I think we will do okay. I'll be on in about three hours If I'm still alive. ##Vote: Disformation See this post is literally the towniest post you've put up so far. But you've not been around literally all day pretty much so you've had no time whatsoever to build up any credibility. Okay you probably wouldn't move me but there's a ton of people voting for you off the back of the fact that I think its the only push going on. Based on everything so far I'm pretty much dead certain you're scum, but if you're town just... -_- The only thing that makes me really uncomfortable is that this is the ONLY train going. Either way I damn well hope I'm right here. :-\ On May 05 2015 06:33 Stutters695 wrote: ##vote: Scott31337 Just in case I'm not here closer to the deadline. You got to post in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484531-newbie-student-mafia-ix-voting-thread?page=2 | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:09 Superbia wrote: Thoughts. Right now. Why are people voting scott? What are everyone's thoughts on HtS? Already posted tons in scott including the complete case on him so... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=30#584 HtS? Eh...give me a sec to look over her filter, I'll write up thoughts as they come to me: Wasn't about early on but had reasons for it. I like her read on you but that's probably because I'm also highly suspicious of you. Disagree with the excuses made for Stutters. I really, really dislike the whole "I don't do day 1" thing and honestly if it weren't for the fact that there seems to be better lynches I'd be all for a lynch on one of those avoiding saying anything for that reason alone. Meta arguments in defence of prplhz I don't like much either. Again its making excuses for someone who (up to that point at least) had done bugger all. Obviously like the reads on myself and scott because I know I'm town and I rate scott as the scummiest person here. Also picked up on something I missed with scott. However I kinda feel its very easy to call both of them. Although it sounds rather egocentrical I think I'm a relatively safe person to town at this point (although not as easy as FF) and scott is, by far, the easiest person to point a finger at. More things about you. I'm not sure how much of this is alignment indicative because I've had much the same thoughts. Just case-building it looks like. First full set of reads, agree on some. Disagree strongly on ritoky. Pressure on sicklucker, that's kinda townie. Picking a fight up with y0su. Although I'm obviously inclined at first to just take this at face value since its kinda in defence of me I'll look a bit deeper. Is picking at things that y0su said that don't seem to work and trying to coax more information out. I don't really have a problem with that. Probing ritoky about prp. Seems reasonable. Again I disagree with her analysis of ritoky but I think some of it is based on meta so I can't argue on that having not played with ritoky before. More stuff with y0su. I'm really not sure how alignment indicative any of that is. Speaking cynically and objectively I'd say there's a tentative link between myself and HtS there. But since I know I'm town that can't be it. Probably a holdover from the fact she knows how I play having been on the scumteam together last game. By the time of the "Alright, if you were a vet I'd be throwing you in the scum pile," comment I agree that I also feel HtS should be reaching more of a conclusion on y0su by now. On the other hand much of it appears to be trying to teach some things to him so that makes it more difficult. I got a bit lost over the whole "dumping the blame" argument honestly. I can't make any sense of it looking at it again now either. She starts picking a bit at prplhz. Is worrying away at little problems. Engaging ritoky head on over his comments. Okay, overall...fairly townie BUT seems to be taking quite an easy route of it. She's doing some of her own work rather than just sheeping but most of it is largely uncontroversial. Its typically just a continuation of what other people have said rather than anything hugely bold; although she does bring up a few fresh new points. I'm not really convinced of scum but given how smart I know HtS can be as scum from the last game its always a possibility. The whole thing of not particularly rustling anybody's feathers bothers me just a little. Though that could be simply because she came into the thread late. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:34 Superbia wrote: Celestial did she really pick a fight with y0su? She did not reach ANY conclusion with that post. Sum up what she has done today in one sentence and then tell me it's townie. I'd say that quotes like this are pretty aggressive: "Your last two posts indicate to me you aren't reading the thread at the very least, or not considering/ignoring context" "It's circular reasoning that quite frankly not only makes my head spin, but makes me wonder if you're coming up with a read for the sake of coming up with a read." And she was pushing fairly hard for some justifications from y0su's very vague 'feeling'. One sentence? She's played it safe by following up on things said prior. I dislike that there's nothing particular bold in there, but I don't find it to be particularly alignment indicative either. She could either be mafia taking refuge in posting a few things and leaving it there or a townie willing to pick at a few things that are ongoing and wait for the first lynch before going for something a bit more aggressive when she has more information. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:43 Superbia wrote: This is not town play. She's mafia or a PR. Straight up. Thing is by that logic sheeping isn't town play either, because its a quiet, safe play. Nor is saying that you don't do day 1 because you're bad at it. Thing is, if everyone doing that in here actually was mafia we'd have like eight people on the mafia side. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:53 ritoky wrote: he claimed VT, said his piece and fucked off. doubt he will come back. either he is VT recognizing he is fucked and being apathetic or he is scum denying any info. pick which one you want to believe. That was basically the only thing he's posted to try to defend himself. Given that he's played mafia side multiple times before this I'd have thought he'd make more damn effort into defending himself if he really is town honestly. Just another thing to chalk up in the scum column for him. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:57 sicklucker wrote: no ones switching anyway. Boring Unless some big shennanies right on the deadline. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:58 Tictock wrote: I feel like I'm scrambling so hard against the clock atm. Was supposed to have an extra hour to put some solid thought into this EoD but work had me stay late. HtS, I know you asked me about an exchange between Super and -c-, but I'm not sure which you are reffering to atm and don't have time to dig and respond to that right now. Sorry. As I've said, scotts latest posts feel genuine to me. -c- has a pretty solid case but my sense is that -c- joined and jumped on scott's poor play pretty hard. -c- reads as town to me but I think just got tunneled hard on scott. This has left mafia have free reign and has given breathing room to several people who never got pressured into participating due to the focus on scott. In that regard prp finally comes back and jumps onboard the newly formed HtS wagon. Entire argument is from a meta read and is generally just posting shit. I'm sticking with my scum read on him. ##Vote: prplhz CUT THAT A BIT FINE DIDN'T YOU? Also, wasted vote. | ||
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On May 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: On another note. Holy shit these hosts are fucking fast and awesome. I particularly like the links to every vote made and vote change. Super convenient. | ||
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On May 05 2015 08:08 Tictock wrote: Not sure it woulda made any difference, but now I feel like a fool for being wishy-washy and wasting some time. Maybe, maybe not. The only thing I didn't like about the scott lynch was the fact there was no other train going on. That's either indicative that either the train is overwhelmingly and blatantly mafia (which is what I was sure of, considering I was leading it and posted that huge damn post arguing for the lynch a little ways back) so that opposing it is too risky or that the train is town and thus mafia don't care. A different train much earlier might have helped give more information. But then again it may not have. No way to know now. I'm more wound up about the fact that it completely shatters my nice little story of scott and Superbia working together, hence potentially giving us easy day 1 and day 2 lynches of two mafia members. Now I'm probably inclined to look much more on Superbia as town given his posts leading up to EoD including the attempt to get an alternate train moving, even if it was too late to make a real difference. That being said...risk of me going full WIFOM here. Maybe that's what he wants me to think and it was deliberately left too late. Or maybe etc etc etc. >_> | ||
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scott31337 (8) : -Celestial-, sicklucker, disformation, Half the Sky, y0su, FecalFeast, The Shining, Stutters695 Half the Sky (3) : Superbia (X), ritoky, prplhz, Superbia disformation (1) : scott31337 prplhz (1) : Tictock We now know verifiably that scott is VT so we can ignore his vote (although I'm going to go back and re-read his arguments against disinformation). I get the feeling that there won't be more than two mafia on the scott train. There was no chance of him not getting lynched so there was no reason to pile on there to guarantee it and spreading people around is safer. Tictock threw his vote away and tried to justify it. I've done that under worse circumstances as a mafia; but I also would have done so under the circumstances it happened as town as well. That being said I still don't like it. I'm going to have to go back through his filter and look at the arguments against prplhz there. The HtS train is Superbia, ritoky and prplhz. Either Superbia is a master manipulator (entirely possible) or I think he's probably town at this point. If I start going into the "but he deliberately started that train too late to matter" thing then I'm going to end up in a neverending loop of "but this but that" so I'll just take it at face value that it was honestly meant until I totally re-evaluate his entire filter. ritoky has been all over the place, I could still see him as scum but he was already my weakest read and frankly now I don't know what to think. prplhz is looking really bad in my books. I wasn't planning to filter dive right now but I brought up his filter to just check over the post he made when he voted scott and he has literally a one-page filter. Most of which is just junk and vague sentiments. His vote on HtS feels incredibly throwaway, kinda OMGUS over her read on him. I'm not going to talk about any of the scott votes until I've properly filter dived everyone and re-evaluated everything. Probably sometime tomorrow. | ||
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Given everything at EoD and the fact scott flipped green I can't put Superbia as my top D2 lynch anymore. I'm planning to re-read everything later but my first impressions are that its far less likely he's a red. I'm really not buying what Tictock has been trying to sell lately. The more I think about it the more "convenient" it looks for him the way everything fell. The guy he voted for wasn't anywhere near getting lynched and it was super last minute so it wasn't even as if it was stubbornness refusing to change his vote. He could have put that on damn near anyone and then tried to cover it up and given that a VT got lynched by a clear majority it might well have gone unnoticed. I'm also really not liking prplhz at all. Again, the more I think about it the more uncomfortable I am. I already pointed out my problems with him last night and time away hasn't made those concerns go away. The Stutters and Superbia thing just feels really town on town to me. Superbia brings up legitimate concerns but Stutters' response to them feels all wrong for him being a mafia. Its a bit of a tone read but he just seems too relaxed about it for him to actually be concerned here. HtS...the jury is still out on her. The hard part is having actually played on a scum team with her I've seen how good she can play scum so even if she appears to be the towniest townie who ever did townie I'm still likely to be suspicious. That being said at first glance I'm not seeing a lot in her posts that I can particularly put a finger on as being scummy. | ||
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On May 06 2015 02:14 ritoky wrote: -c-, i don't understand your hts read. why aren't you leaning town on her? she basically has the exact same reads as you. I already mentioned why in my post above. Simply put: I know from personal experience she can make a good job of hiding as scum. A few pages ago Superbia asked for my thoughts on HtS and my conclusion was the following: Okay, overall...fairly townie BUT seems to be taking quite an easy route of it. She's doing some of her own work rather than just sheeping but most of it is largely uncontroversial. Its typically just a continuation of what other people have said rather than anything hugely bold; although she does bring up a few fresh new points. I'm not really convinced of scum but given how smart I know HtS can be as scum from the last game its always a possibility. The whole thing of not particularly rustling anybody's feathers bothers me just a little. Though that could be simply because she came into the thread late. Obviously there's been more since then. I WANT to townread her but honestly this game I'm not sure she's ever going to get better than a null from my own inherently suspicious bias. Sure, some of our reads are similar but I don't actually consider that to be outright alignment indicative in and of itself. I'm not perfect (as the egg on my face from pushing the scott lynch so hard can attest to) which means its entirely possible she's simply picked up on reads I've gotten wrong and is going along with it to fit in. Or she might genuinely believe it. Or she might think that I might think that and.... I'm drifting into WIFOM territory here. >_> | ||
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Tictock - At best a very dirty null here, but honestly I'm not uncomfortable with putting him on the scummy pile for now. He's not got much of a filter but let's see what we got. Firstly he makes a pile of excuses, hammering away about the fact he's a newbie, and then just drifted about saying that he wasn't sure what to make of any of it. His initial reads are towning me and scumming scott (both extremely easy calls to make) without really adding anything as to why he feels that way. Then he wavers on FF which is less in line with the thread. There's a bit of a back and forth about that while he posts a pile of null and town reads on literally everyone else. So his only feeling is towards FF and it seems to be a weak one. In fairness he does worry away at the problem a bit and doesn't leave it to rest but he also doesn't really stick his head about the parapet for it. Preferring to occasionally throw up concerns without really driving anything. Okay since FF was pretty much universally townread at this point I can see why a newer player would be hesitant to do that but come on...its' your only scumread at this point. HtS turns up and gets scumread for...well I think for a pretty bad reason. He actually lies a bit here about what he said previously by claiming that he was getting a scum vibe originally, despite the fact his earlier post stated that he had "no real reads" on Superbia. So he's trying to pretend that he's reversing course on a previous red reading, despite not having made that red reading. Proof: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=24#477 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=29#563 Other than that he throws an easy to make scum read on prplhz (who had done basically nothing at this point) and made excuses for scott on the basis that scott seemed "calm", despite the fact scott did basically nothing to try to demonstrate that he was town. Then calls out inactives. He posts that he doesn't know who to vote for, now he's saying scott is appealing and then says he's tempted to make a case on prplhz but that there isn't enough to go on. He argues that the vote on scott felt too easy but still isn't voting on anyone. He makes excuses for his reads on Shining and Super (despite the fact that his only read on Shining is "I have no real read". Then tries to pull information out of scott who is totally off the radar at this point. Turning up like two minutes before the deadline he posts a bunch of stuff about how he now doesn't like the scott train and that its allowed a bunch of people to get away without pressure because of the focus on scott. To which I ask why weren't you pressuring them, then? He then throws his vote away by voting prplhz on the basis that he's posting crap and just jumped on a brand new HtS wagon. Post-flip he's upset about having not voted much earlier...despite the fact it absolutely was not clear which way he was voting in that post. Furthermore he goes on about how he doubts the scott train could have been stopped and yet...I've just checked the votes and timestamps and assuming I'm not misreading this at the time he was umm-ing and ahh-ing over prplhz and scott, scott had two votes and sicklucker had 1. That's hardly an out of control train there. He makes a bunch of excuses about the wasted vote and is trying to justify it. Then claims he had the same opinion about 12 hours before EoD (despite the fact that that post said he wasn't sure what to do). Sorry but this whole flow of events looks pretty bad. There's nothing overt, but as a whole I don't like it. Conclusion: His flow of events is horrible here. He beats around the bush all day being fairly inconsistent and then jumps in with moments to go with a completely wasted vote. Dirty as hell. y0su - Singularly unmemorable for me for actually doing anything which is worrying in and of itself. Filter diving him a fair few things set off alarm bells. Has a three page filter with virtually nothing concrete in it. First page is just a bunch of blabbing. Excuses at the top of the first page and no actual input. Then asking game-related questions about how d1 lynches work out. His first post of actual note is him complaining that the biggest back and forth is me and scott. He talks about how my first post bugs him, does a bit of WIFOMing and then says it doesn't feel town. But concedes that I have some decent points. Then starts going on about an "uneasy feeling". But his conclusion is that he doesn't want to vote either me OR scott. With the amount of information so far I'd have expected SOME kind of conclusion here and he doesn't bother to push anyone or anything for more information. Just sitting back. Then starts asking MORE questions about how the game goes. More stuff on me and scott here. He's just rehashing stuff here. Asks frivolous questions and makes frivolous comments. Finally decides to ask someone something directly by lobbing a softball at FF about ritoky; then starts questioning sicklucker about how I was coached last game and as which alignment (which is weird because it's something I've been open about all game, I'm surprised he didn't pick up on it). Makes some more empty comments about the case on scott and yet goes back to his "strange feeling" on me. And asks about ritoky again. More talking about not wanting to weigh in on the scott vs me thing. Then back to ritoky who he seems really interested in despite the fact that he's not actually trying to push at all. HtS finally calls y0su out on all these airy-fairy "feelings" about me and pushes him on it. The responses are okay I guess but non of it seems alignment indicative. It's all very "well this doesn't feel quite right". More and more talk fluffing about whether or not to believe whether my argument is genuine or not. Finally comes in after EoD talking again about his uneasiness of the scott wagon and asking about scott's vote and is now weakly commenting on disinformation who is being pressured by other people. Conclusion: His beating around the busy is worse than Tictock and yet he seems to have gotten away with it, largely I think because he's posted more. But something like 90% of his posting is very vague and trying to be inoffensive and not draw attention. Hell there are hardly any reads in here at all. The only people he seems to have scummed to any extent at all are me, ritoky and recently disinformation. But it's always full of qualifications and "but oh I don't know". Perhaps hiding below the radar whilst still pretending to contribute? He looks really bad but as a new player I'm not entirely sure that's not down to reluctance to just get stuck in. That being said if I don't see some actual effort soon this is going to go entirely red. disformation - I'm not really buying the recent pushes on him honestly. Not reading him super town but leaning that way. Comes across as the earnest newbie type and I don't think it's a facade. His entire filter is full of asking appropriate questions and prodding at people. Doesn't really come across as particularly afraid either. Picking at things that don't seem right too, even if his inexperience shows a bit sometimes. Conclusion: Doesn't read mafia for me. Not all of his posts are great but I don't see enough scum markers in them to set off alarm bells in my head. ritoky - My thoughts shortly after the flip were as follows: "ritoky has been all over the place, I could still see him as scum but he was already my weakest read and frankly now I don't know what to think." Since then hs'e been going pretty hard on people which I like a lot more. Enough to pull him back from the scum leaning I still had. Conclusion: Looked awful to me for most of D1 but is looking a lot better since the flip. Could probably lean town pretty soon if he keeps it up. The Shining - I like most of his earlier stuff. Especially his response to the HtS thing. Posting very openly. But seems to lack attempts to push on people. Talks a lot ABOUT people but doesn't seem to be pushing on them very hard. Seems mostly to ask questions when people have started to push on him which I don't like too much, thus preventing me from outright townreading. What hurts massively is the recent inactivity too. Conclusion: Mostly looks alright but I'd like to see more pushing on people and actually getting back in the thread to address issues. Half the Sky - I already posted my thoughts on reading HtS earlier here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=47#939 Conclusion: I don't think I'm in a very good spot to make a judgement on her because I'm pretty much biased into being suspicious. I'll have to give it way more thought than the time I have here (I want to post this before EoN in case I get shot). I'd very much appreciate seeing other people's views on her to help with this. Superbia - I didn't like a lot of his stuff early on at all but it gradually progressed to a really good place lately. So he's gone from fairly deeply red right back to null. I particularly like the fact that he didn't like the fact that there was only one train for the vote. He's calling people out for crap they posted and isn't afraid to ruffle some feathers. I don't actually have time to read his entire filter in detail right now because its massive (nine pages) so my thoughts might change once I've done that in full. That said I couldn't D2 lynch him at this point anymore. Conclusions: Can't townread yet, but has made up massively for what I felt was a fairly suspicious early game. FecalFeast - Town although sometimes he seems a little TOO laid back because nobody seems to be pressuring him. Regardless he's poking at the right things, questioning people and isn't afraid to take people on. Conclusion: If he isn't town I'll be very, very sad. prplhz - Already posted about this last night and literally nothing has changed since then. Number one lynch target as far as I'm concerned. Conclusions: See this post for my thoughts on prplhz, such as they are: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=45#881 sicklucker - Lots of nonsense posts and one-liners. Made the "I don't do day 1" excuse. That said I honestly don't read anything so far as mafia. I hardly read anything at all actually here. Seems kinda laid back so MAYBE town but without actual posts to go on...*shrug* Conclusion: Needs to step it up, but for now I wouldn't be comfortable lynching, not until I've seen D2 play. If he continues like this it'll just be straight red here. Stutters695 - First page of the filter doesn't contain a huge amount. Another one making excuses by saying "I'm bad at D1" which is something I really, really don't like. Opens by stating he's okay with a sicklucker vote on the basis of HIM not doing D1 which was a bit weird for me but does provide kind of a reasoning behind it (he only said he's bad at D1, not that he's not going to play at all). Pokes a bit at prplhz for things that don't sit right which I like a lot. Eventually goes with the scott lynch. I'm very eh about his play as a whole, he makes comments on people and doesn't really push very much but isn't afraid to stick his neck out a bit and is rather more decisive than other people playing more passively. That leans me back towards a town leaning. I'm leaving this at null for now. Makes some actual reads when pushed for them and does engage properly. I don't think he's a good D2 lynch unless he doesn't start showing some more assertive play on D2. Conclusion: Despite my dislike of the "I don't do/am bad at D1" excuse it does somewhat tally with Stutter's actions here. He's trying somewhat but doesn't really have anything special to add it seems. Tentatively leaning town but I want to see a lot more before too much longer; seems to be doing more than sicklucker anyway. Requests: y0su: hard reads on everyone. Now if you please. No more of this messing about waving your hands and going "oh I don't know". There's plenty in this thread to get some idea at this point, so no more excuses. Tictock: same goes for you. Also I'd like to know why, if you felt the scott train wasn't good, did you not try harder to pressure anyone before the deadline to find a different wagon to get rolling? Stutters and sicklucker: Okay you "don't do day 1" or you're not good on D1, same thing. Either way its Night 1 now and D2 coming up. Please start showing something impressive or I'm just going to start assuming that you're scum trying to hide from actually doing anything. Everyone: If anyone has thoughts on HtS they can summarise cleanly I'd like to hear them. | ||
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When it going to the forty five minute mark and was only writing the third one up I knew I'd have to speed up quite a bit. >_> | ||
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On May 06 2015 10:23 Stutters695 wrote: Where is everyone else? Probably asleep its 3am where I am right now. Glad to see Tictock has finally posted a set of reads. I'll have a look properly tomorrow because I'm going to bed myself right now. If y0su doesn't freaking post a set pretty damn soon though I'm probably going to throw my vote on him just on general principle. He's given us basically no reads at all all game. | ||
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On May 06 2015 16:13 y0su wrote: Half the Sky beyond "holding my hand" - for which she got T (as it seems very town beneficial) Just a small note here: I wouldn't take that as alignment indicative myself. As far as I can tell for the most part she's just guiding you through your thoughts on me which could mean: 1. She's town, and wants to get you onto the same page as other people. 2. Me and her are scummates and she's deliberately guiding you away from me. 3. She's scum, I'm not, and she's trying to curry favour with me since I was being heavily townread. At least that's how I'd read it in your position. So basically it could mean anything. As for the FF kill I'm not sure that's going to tell us anything. FF was townread by basically everyone at this point. He was never, ever getting lynched but he was also not exactly driving the thread onwards which made him an easy shot with no real fear of a doctor save. Anyway, y0su finally got some damn reads up so now my attention is on those who have hardly posted throughout D1. And on prplhz who looks really, really dirty in my view. I could get on a prplhz wagon at this point honestly. I don't really see anything to redeem him at the moment. Then again, that's how I felt about scott... On May 06 2015 16:49 sicklucker wrote: If im a cop I have a green on hts Is this a drunken claim? If it is then that simplifies things a bit (though I dunno, game has a Godfather in it...). Although if its supposed to be a more generic statement then I agree that HtS should probably have been the cop check if there was one last night. | ||
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On May 07 2015 00:44 sicklucker wrote: Oh super claimed rb? Hes very likely mafia now I will vote him. From my experience mafia will claim rb like half of the time regardless of the setup so im always suspect of the roleblock claim. But when theres a vet in the game (There is 50% of the time in this set up but mafia knows what setup were in) mafia will always roleblock whoever they nk because if you roleblock your nightkill then the vet power is neutriled. So mafia will know there is a vet because they are told the setup and will have roleblocked ff if its a veteran setup 100% of the time. Also meta wise supers one mafia win that I know of was my very first game. He claimed roleblock that game too and rode it to a mafia win. Let me ask the host if rb goes through vet power in this setup but it usually does. Told ya you should have killed me super I like this logic. On May 07 2015 00:44 Half the Sky wrote: Looked at a few more filters. Celestial, I looked at your latest list post. I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked Stutters. prplhz appears right now your top lynch. Let's say that prplhz disappeared or more realistically, he was replaced for whatever reason, hypothetically. 1 Who else would you lynch? 2 Have your opinions changed on tictock? 1. Probably y0su. Sicklucker has actually done some interesting things past few pages so now I think everyone on my "you need to do something tangible" list from my last big post actually HAS done something which gives me a little more to go on. Of all of them y0su was looking pretty bad at the time of my last wall of reads. Since then as far as I can tell his grand total contribution has been a couple of comments on how being wrong does not automatically equal being mafia and a handful of reads which basically amount to "everyone is green lets all be happy happy" except a very weak toneread on Shining. This is despite me basically outright telling him he's GOT to be more aggressive and assertive to avoid a red reading he's not done so yet. He's not pointed a finger at anyone for being scum and he's not been asking any questions or prodding for responses. I think he's gone off to sleep now but I mean come on...we're approaching half way through D2 and he's got a short filter with absolutely nothing of real value in it so far. He's full of excuses and explanations for his behaviour but has shown no change. He's getting away with absolute murder here and I don't like it one bit. That being said...I'll have to think on Superbia some more. sicklucker has some good points here. 2. Still not a huge fan, his posting has improved a lot but it took a fairly big effort to get those reads out of him. Wouldn't want to lynch right now though without fully reviewing his filter. | ||
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Gah, now I don't know. I had Superbia as playing kinda scummy and had a tentative correlation with scott. Since scott flipped green I guess I've been mentally going easier on Superbia (especially given the huge amount of effort he's been putting in and the aggression which looks very town) but looking at this conversation going on here... | ||
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I mean come on...I just looked through his filter and to me it reads as follows: - Got a bad feeling about Shining. - I'm not going to post much this game. By the way what do you think about Celestial? They're sticking out a lot. - I was out, I'll read when I'm back. - Oh god deadline! I don't like the scott train. Some apparently meta-read based on lynchings from other games. Ooooh that Celestial person bothers me; don't like scott train. HtS is scumreading me based on my Shining comment (basically the only thing that could be construed as a direct read by prplhz on anyone to that point); oh me oh my why me? OMGUS. Voting on her! - Meta meta HtS. Plus elaborating on the fact that he doesn't like that he's being scummed for something other people have done. (Neatly glossing over the fact that it was virtually ALL he'd done) - I won't be around for EoD. Oh by the way you need to push HtS train. - Stutters, Superbia has a good question, answer it. What were you doing at EoD? - Stutters is my new target for that. - Tictock looks bad for the wasted vote. Stutters looks bad for his lurking on EoD. HtS is still scumreading me for the only thing approaching a read I've really made up to this point and I don't like that. But she's right I'm OMGUSing people. I'll start trusting my town reads (what damn town reads?) and start looking at other people. - ritoky has a good point on Tictock though I'm not sure. - Excuses excuses because of tunneling some guy in some other game. I'm unsure about Tictock like I'm unsure about Celestial. - Tictock still looks bad for his vote. - I'm reconsidering again. FF was town as I expected (like goddamn everyone did). Excuses about tunneling in a different game again. I think HtS is scum because she said I'm scum because of one of the few things I actually did despite other people doing the same (ignoring the fact those other people have also done OTHER things to go on). And because something metagame something. I'll go take a look at Stutters' meta from other games now. But Superbia and ritoky are definitely town (which is an easy thing for him to say since both of you have been calling him town forever). - We probably have a doc because Superbia was roleblocked so there's no veteran. - Why are you reading HtS as town, Superbia? That is his ENTIRE filter summarised. There's nothing of value in there. Hardly any actual reads with his strongest push being to vote HtS with less than an hour to go, an argument that (in my opinion) is fairly rubbish and then ask other people to push it for him. What I do see is a ton of waffling about doing very little, no real effort to pressure anyone and a guy quite happy to sit in the little cocoon that you've constructed for him by reading him town every time you provide reads. This is despite the fact he's done nothing that I can see to deserve that read. I mean...are we even talking about the same guy here, Superbia? What in the name of god makes you think he's so hard town? And provide quotes please, not this "his reads match mine" thing you got going. Quote the actual things he said and why they're town. Because honestly having just made this post and reviewing how bad he looks here I'm inclined to just vote him now and be done with it. | ||
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##Vote: prplhz | ||
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His "reads" D1 as far as I can tell amounted to a bad feeling on Shining, a bad feeling on me and an OMGUS on HtS which turned into a wagon after you picked it up and started pushing. As well as a bunch of rambling about how he just didn't like the scott wagon, but never actually seemed to specifically read scott unless I missed it somewhere. His strongest "push" was him saying that someone ELSE needed to push the HtS wagon with around 40 minutes to go here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=38#749 You seem to be giving him a totally free pass for doing virtually nothing at all. | ||
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Where the hell was he in that time beforehand if he really felt that strongly? | ||
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But prplhz is just...bright crimson right now. He's done nothing but lurk and try to pretend to contribute. And yet Superbia has been hard town reading him literally the entire game because "he's thinking the same as me, making the same reads" despite the fact he's made virtually no reads at all. Seriously just wtf. prplhz looks terrible and Superbia's constant defending is honestly weirding me out. I almost think it would be worth lynching Superbia right now because of that one thing. | ||
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On May 07 2015 03:36 Superbia wrote: K. Let's all circlejerk onto prp like we did with scott. Like I haven't even re-evaluated him yet, but the fact that so many people are jumping on him so readily already irks the shit out of me. It's almost never mafia then. Same with scott d1. I haven't re-valuated him because I have no fucking interest in jumping on yet another singular wagon. Right now there's three people on prplhz, two on you and two on Shining. That's hardly circlejerking onto a singular wagon. | ||
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On May 07 2015 03:46 Stutters695 wrote: What? No. You lynch the bright crimson scum first. That's like mafia 101. I was being a touch hyperbolic, hence why I said "almost" and I'm staying on prplhz right now. Though I feel Superbia is far more dangerous an opponent to leave alive if he does turn out to be scum which worries me a lot. | ||
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If I had to pick one thing in particular out I really don't like its the fight back against the whole killing FF thing. He's insisting that FF was never blue. But we can't prove that's what he actually thought or that's what ANYONE thought. I don't recall anyone going "oh that FF is definitely not blue" because that'd be a godawful town play anyway. The argument then switches to "if I thought FF was blue I'd do X, Y, Z" which is entirely not alignment indicative because he can say literally anything at all he wants here and nobody can prove otherwise. Then he's continuing to hammer away at the fact that he claims he got roleblocked and mafia has a role read on him; which is another thing nobody can actually verify. There does seem to be a hint of frustration that he claims he feels when people scum him when he's town; but that could easily be him feeling pressured as red either. I don't like that he's making a big deal about the fact that people should dismiss him as a scum candidate on the basis of things he's claiming that nobody else can prove. | ||
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On May 07 2015 06:58 The Shining wrote: wouldn't a newbie town be a little hesitant to push so Damn hard after that Scott ml? Alternatively if I was showing I was scared and unwilling to push people then people would think that I'd drove the mislynch train and then gone quiet, hoping not to be noticed in the fallout. Both are potentially very good reasons to scum me in fairness. | ||
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Oh? Missed that in your filter. Fair enough. Think that's a bit of a silly play though because you're drawing attention to people you think are blue and might get them killed. That being said...would THAT have been enough to give the mafia a target in itself? "Eh, we don't have anyone better so we might as well go with the confirmed townie who someone said might be blue." | ||
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If he tries to say VT at this point then I'm honestly going to facepalm so hard. | ||
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On May 07 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote: Yeah. My point is, it happened and it's enough for me to scum you or at least not town you. And no one has questioned it. You've even got a conf town read for it. I just want to know why. To read into it you'd have to look at my town style but I only have one game on here and it was as scum. You could ask me directly but all I'm going to say as EITHER alignment is "yeah, I'm town, do this all the time". Like I said, either way could be a good way to scum me and that's pretty much why I didn't even bother trying to avoid that potential criticism (although you seem to be the first to have brought it up) because nothing I say will make a bit of difference to what you think there. Ultimately I have zero reason to be scared as long as I remember to keep putting out a big read post every day and night containing all my thoughts because as long as that's out I'm leaving my legacy behind for town to follow up on. Although I'd like to note that I didn't actually MEAN to "lead" the prplhz lynch here but the fact that Superbia kept blindly defending the guy for, in my view, no reason whatsoever was enough for me to dig through prpl's entire filter and pull it apart to wave it in front of Superbia. | ||
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Unfortunately that means that disformation is 100% dead either way. Sorry about that. :-\ | ||
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On May 08 2015 01:33 Superbia wrote: Excellent. This game is making a lot more sense now, assuming prp indeed flips scum (and he should, probably goon). The fact that he's willing to trade his life for the doctor means that there is 100% mafia on his wagon already (bus has been coming). I think it's stutters. Why? Find out in the next episode of: "Superbia solves the game" (i.e. this evening). Hint: if you can figure out why, you get a free townread! (hint: Adamantine). Quite interested in this thing on Stutters. I had a quick flick back through his filter myself and found this from quite early on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=46#902 I will vote prpl tomorrow. However, I really do not like disinfo's EoD summary post. There are way scummier things about prpl than sitting back after voting HtS. The fact that he ignores those worries me and makes me think that might be an attempt at a bus if prpl flips later without actually trying to get him lynched. Not to mention that's the only positive of his list there and it ignores the biggest things against prpl. Not going to worry about that yet, but just something to note if prpl flips scum. Its like...he could see scum on prpl...but then starts to set up a potential callback for when prpl flips scum to try to tie it into disformation. As if he's preemptively setting himself up for a push on disformation when prpl flips scum. Despite the fact that disformation was also onto prpl. | ||
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On May 08 2015 01:35 disformation wrote: I also gave sicklucker a bunch of town cred for his math theory stuff. Since he genuinely seemed into the idea that there is a vet and stuff. This is actually a good point. sicklucker was tunneling REALLY hard on the idea of a veteran if I remember rightly. Whereas if he was scum he'd KNOW there's no veteran. Could be an act, but something to think about anyway. | ||
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On May 08 2015 01:54 Half the Sky wrote: Celestial, ritoky did the same thing with the prp mind meld. They both need looked at? Well I'm going to wait until the flip until I start filter diving again but yeah, in light of the new information there's a bunch I'm going to check over. | ||
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On May 08 2015 01:51 Half the Sky wrote: No it is. I think its wifom....but no I see what Superbia means. This would be the third bloody newbie game in a row lacking a DT. I CALL SHENNANIGANS ON THESE NEWBIE HOSTS. >_< Direct quote for reference: This game uses a variable open setup. When the game begins, one of the following setups will be chosen: A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon Bolded emphasis mine given the doc call. There's either a Vig or a Cop in the game. That being said if its Vig they definitely should shoot tonight. | ||
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On May 08 2015 02:01 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia contends that prp would have claimed DT to draw out the DT claim. Hence unlikely a DT. I guess, but I'm not 100% on that. Drawing out the DT claim also allows the DT to freely post their checks giving town more info outright that can then be confirmed by the DT death. Why is the DT kill more valuable than the Doc kill? Anyway this is all kind of unnecessary at this point. prplhz dies now. Vig should shoot tonight. disformation pretty much 100% dies tonight, can't see any reason for mafia to leave him alive. If Vig gets a good shot then we're two Mafia up. | ||
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Lets think though, if prplhz was Godfather he'll return VT to checks. Which means that anything he claims other than VT means he's automatically scum. So claiming DT would be his best call, since it should guarantee the DT counterclaim and get the DT kill; thus leaving his buddies safer. As either of the others you claim Doc. Because if the Doc dies your KP become more potent (because you're not going to be worrying about saves). Its more dangerous for the other non-Godfather role, but it gives the DT time to get a green check on the Godfather so if the DT eventually outs you're in a great position to win. | ||
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On May 08 2015 02:12 Half the Sky wrote: A vig absolutely would have shot N1. I'm not convinced 100% of that either since there were just so many potentials. Although to have held the shot through N1 would have required nerves of absolute steel. | ||
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On May 08 2015 02:24 prplhz wrote: oh god dammit sorry guys i'm not DOC i'm COP dunno how my fingers managed to mess that up anyway, i'm cop This reminds me of this: | ||
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He's going to die 100% anyway and if you out then he'll have done his job as scum by drawing out both blues. DO NOT OUT YOURSELF AS COP OVER THIS GUY. That being said if, by some absolute miracle, he IS a Cop then he's just managed to get both of our blues killed. GG | ||
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On May 08 2015 03:17 Tictock wrote: So if the consensis if pretty firmly on prp for D2 lynch Its not even consensus at this point. Its auto. He was being heavily scumread and claimed Doc ridiculously early which was then CCd. Absolutely textbook play; you lynch prp 100% under these conditions. Then if he flips blue you lynch dis. Again, auto. The fact that he tried to change his claim is outright laughable. Either its a rather mean-spirited attempt to draw out a newbie cop with a CC or it is the most monumentally terrible mistake its possible to make as town. | ||
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On May 08 2015 04:16 Tictock wrote: -c- I'm sure you looking into it more than I have at this point. Where do you stand with Stutters and Super at this point? Anything more on stutters since you noticed his "backup" on Dis? Super is looking significantly better since the whole Doc claim thing. Of course that could all change depending on prpl's flip coming up. Either way, first impression is he's looking a lot more townie but we'll have to see about the flip and filter. Stutters I've honestly not looked into much since I mentioned his whole thing on disformation; it was just something that jumped out at me immediately. The time I had before I disappeared off to vote (and later watching Serenity) I was wrapped up in the fallout of the claim and counterclaim. I'll probably start looking at people again tomorrow when I've got the flip to work with too and when I'm significantly less tired. My brain isn't working very well right now, I'm exhausted. The last few pages have been very interesting though. On May 08 2015 06:24 Half the Sky wrote: EU West is trash lately though. Crashed twice tonight. GG Valve. I tried to get on CSGO a couple hours ago. Servers buggered to hell. If prpl doesn't flip red here just... -_- | ||
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On May 08 2015 07:57 Superbia wrote: It's probably like this: prp: I'm not going to play (tomorrow), just bus me. Happens more than you think. To be honest this is almost what I did my last game when I was completely drained from being interrogated. Was on the verge of just flipping the table over and going "screw it, I'm done". So I can definitely see it happening. | ||
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Oh thank god for that. For a horrible moment I thought that another one of my big posts might have gotten another mislynch. | ||
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On May 08 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: Good. I'm the vigi and I'm going to shoot. You're actually vig? Okay that's very promising. With the RB gone you can outright declare who you're going to shoot and the Doc might as well put his save on you. That way, 100% chance of the kill. | ||
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On May 08 2015 08:05 Half the Sky wrote: OH WAIT WOW NO. The bullet is refundable. I stand corrected! Yup: If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. Town has a guaranteed shot at someone tonight. No blocks, no nothing. Hope its a good one. | ||
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On May 08 2015 08:14 Half the Sky wrote: This is why I'm in these newbie games....I'm honestly one of the worst town players in TL :/ Probably because your scum play looks so town. Take it as a compliment. Maybe scary but ♥ regardless. X-D | ||
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Although it is starting to slightly bother me that he doesn't EVER seem to read the thread before posting. Like...the whole Vig thing wasn't exactly a one-liner in one post. We were discussing shots for a bit there. | ||
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I'll try to go through some things tomorrow before the night stuff comes in. | ||
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On May 08 2015 16:17 Tictock wrote: Ah so Super confirmed town then? So who do you think should be D3 lynch then SL? He's confirmed town if two people die tonight, one of them being Stutters who he claims he's targeting. The only way he can not be confirmed by this action is if Mafia holds onto their KP. Which would just be an all-round terrible move in my opinion whichever alignment Stutters is. If he's Mafia then they lose two for nothing, the only gain being that Superbia isn't confirmed as Town, plus we keep our doc another day. If he's town then they miss on the opportunity to get two kills, which they kinda need because they just lost the scum RB. Under no circumstances here do mafia not kill someone tonight. And they do NOT let the claimed doc live. Although with the shenanigans going on with ritoky claiming that disfo was just covering for him I have no idea which of the two they'll actually shoot. | ||
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On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote: beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade Gigantic alarm bells going off in my head about you and Ritoky right now. This has NOT been confirmed and yet you're taking it as given, is this all a big plot to guarantee that Superbia doesn't shoot either you or ritoky tonight? disformations last post: On May 08 2015 08:10 disformation wrote: Kinda hyped. Looks pretty bad for scum now. ritoky claiming that: On May 08 2015 08:13 ritoky wrote: thanks for claiming my role for me disform, you don't have to cover for me any more; it was pretty obvious i was trying to bait prp into claiming my role with the role or mafia read so i could cc him. you don't gotta keep it up anymore. The timestamps show it. ritoky posted that claim of his three minutes after disformation's very last post in this thread and disformation has NOT been back to confirm or deny it. At the risk of going off the rails with a fanciful argument it would be extremely easy for ritoky to make this claim and then you reinforce it, gambling on disformation not picking up the counter claim and thus making everyone blindly believe ritoky's claim and that disformation is "merely" VT which means ritoky is safe from the NK vig shot. Someone please tell me I'm missing something here because this post from y0su combined with ritoky's actions looks goddamn horrible. | ||
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Explain why you outright believe ritoky's claim that disfo was claiming for him despite the fact that disfo has NOT confirmed this yet. | ||
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How about you think for a moment: assuming ritoky's claim is TRUE (that disformation was fakeclaiming on his behalf) and that Superbia is the vig then the absolutely optimal play would be to shut the hell up and protect disformation that night. I don't think Superbia was even looking at ritoky anyway so he was probably safe from an accidental vig shot; meanwhile there is absolutely no way mafia doesn't shoot a claimed medic, in this case disformation. As a result mafia wastes their shot at someone protected by the doc. Absolutely the best outcome for town. By claiming ritoky only does two things. One he puts a target on his head for the mafia and two he can claim towncred by pretending to be the doctor. The former is an absurd play given how unlikely it was he'd be shot tonight anyway and that he'd get an almost guaranteed free doc save out of it too, the latter is a bizarre play but if he's banking on disformation being too much of a newbie to catch it then he might just get away with it. Either way ritoky's claim is weird as hell and makes zero sense. And you're accepting it blindly. | ||
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On May 09 2015 06:44 y0su wrote: god damn it. ritoky was trying to take the NK! (and hoping dis would throw a hail marry save on him) he didn't CC and go after dis. he was trying to protect TOWN and save the doc. Something which was never, ever happening. I'm sorry but this is an absurd argument. No way does mafia EVER NK the second counter-claim here, especially post flip. "No rly, srsly guys believe me, scouts honour I'm the REAL Doc, he was just covering for me." In a game with no PMs so that such an action couldn't be coordinated there is zero reason for mafia to believe the second claim here. | ||
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I mean lets assume this had all gone through and the little plan hadn't worked and disfo were to get shot anyway. Where the hell does that leave ritoky? "Oh, I was just messing, trying to get the mafia to shoot me instead, really, I'm innocent, don't lynch me." Where the hell does that leave anyone who BELIEVED ritoky and pushed that narrative along "oh I knew that's what he was doing all along, I'm innocent too!" Again, this game doesn't have PMs. Therefore there is no way to coordinate such an action. Why would anyone ever believe that argument? | ||
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In an open setup like this you just screw absolutely everyone's reads. | ||
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"Oh I knew what he was doing all along! He was trying to help!" Really now. Again, how did you figure that out? What is making you townread ritoky so hard? His counter-claiming a counter-claiming Doc? Really? Like...y0su is rapidly climbing my "to-lynch" list every minute I spend thinking about this. That's how bad this little gambit worked out if y0su and ritoky really are innocent here. | ||
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On May 09 2015 07:04 y0su wrote: a) ritoky is scum. he believes dis to be dr. he's going to nk dis. everyone is going to know his claim is false. b) ritoky is vt. he believes dis to be dr. he tries something desperate to save dis. which is more likely? Okay, now you're being deliberately misleading about the possibilities. You are absolutely scum here and its going to take a hell of an argument for anyone to convince me you're not red. He doesn't HAVE to NK dis. He can NK ANYONE ELSE in this game which leaves us running in goddamn circles for the entirety of day 3 trying to work out which of disformation and ritoky is lying. | ||
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Under those circumstances its entirely possible town gets scared of potentially mislynching the Doc, consequently leaving both alone. Potentially leading to a mislynch on someone entirely different which would be increasingly painful at that point. | ||
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On May 09 2015 07:12 y0su wrote: If someone other than whoever super shoots dies, i'll entertain that. you yourself said there's no reason not to nk Unless Super is talking nonsense about being vig then there WILL be two kills tonight. No way does mafia not kill someone tonight especially after this whole absurd situation with ritoky. Right now you're pretty much my top scumread given how you're reacting here. | ||
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On May 09 2015 07:33 Stutters695 wrote: Compare VII (town) and this game. You honestly don't even have to read his filter, just skim it and you'll see a remarkable difference. If you do want to look it over, let me point you to pg 10/11 of VII. Prpl was active d1/n1 (9ish pg filter) then fell off d2/n2 when I started pushing him for the same reasons in that game. His reaction was to not push anything when he didn't have time and just straight defend him being town. Once the pressure was off he went back to low content, large quantity (not bad, just a lot of one/two liners related to the game). After the game, it made me see a larger difference in his play after misreading his meta twice (lack of defensiveness and longer posts that say less). Dinner rush is happening, so I don't think I'll be around before the EoN again. If you shoot me no hard feelings. Apologies for my play, I just haven't had enough time to really build a case. ...what on earth are you talking about here and why are you linking me to prplhz when I'm questioning y0su and asking him about ritoky? | ||
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On May 09 2015 07:40 The Shining wrote: Ugh. This is why I said I'd speak to ritoky about this post eon, when the nk and shot flipped. Dis hadn't come back yet to refute the cc but I did pick up on what y0su did, though I found it far less likely and believable. Especially since both blues have claimed. It could be a ploy to get the doc save onto him and leave Super open for the nk, instead of doc saving Super. Of course, since it's been speculated on, scum has a better idea of what to do now. Meh. Again, in no universe does scum kill the second claim here. It just makes no sense in a non-PM environment where you can't privately set up your gambit with people you trust. The first claim is almost definitely the actual real one. The sole way you get away with this is if there are only newbies on the scum team and they're not listening to their coaches. Which I find hard to believe. On May 09 2015 07:49 The Shining wrote: He quoted the wrong post but Super did ask him to explain his entire thought process, read and push. Oh, right. That was very confusing. X-D | ||
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On May 09 2015 07:57 The Shining wrote: I agree but regardless of the validity, us speculating and disproving it at night isn't the best move. Better off leaving scum drowning in the wifom and pinging ritos yosu during day phase. Except if Mafia had killed LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE that night we would have been basically screwed. Because the entire day would have been spent arguing the merits of disformation and ritoky. And if ritoky had "unclaimed" then he'd STILL look horrible and probably be the lynch that day. | ||
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On May 09 2015 09:01 sicklucker wrote: who did you shoot suber? On May 09 2015 09:02 Superbia wrote: disformation. Well I lold | ||
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Thing is...Superbia was basically doing the same damn thing until everyone started jumping on prpl and I hammered him repeatedly pointing out how scummy prpl was looking. And Superbia is confirmed vig at this point. In light of what I've seen from y0su myself plus Shining's post on the other page I think I'd be alright with a y0su lynch today. Pretty good chance of hitting the target I think. Probably do some more poking about in his filter before I decide for certain. Not doing it now though, too tired to concentrate. ritoky isn't a bad call either. I still think that whole situation with CC on disformation's Doc claim is just weird as hell and if it wasn't for the fact that there's only one mafia left I'd be scumming them as a pair working together on some kind of weird gambit to confuse everyone. Those two in either order should probably get us the final scum lynch. I guess I'll decide which way around I'd particularly like to see it happen tomorrow. | ||
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On May 09 2015 10:29 sicklucker wrote: Like anyone whos played more then 3 mafia games knew ritoky was trying to take a rolebullet. But it was so poorly executed and unbelievable that a town ritoky cant possibly think it was worth the effort if that helps you. It was also never going to work there unless the scum team had totally taken leave of their senses. Again, in a no-PM setup there is no WAY that mafia buys that argument and shoots ritoky before they shoot disfo. No way. If you're mafia under those circumstances and you KNOW that it can't possibly have been a pre-planned gambit then you shoot the initial claim first. | ||
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On May 09 2015 11:20 ritoky wrote: I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs Hope everything works alright for you. But honestly that was a godawful town play. >_> | ||
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On May 10 2015 03:39 ritoky wrote: I am pretty much confirmed town. No you absolutely are not. And the fact you keep claiming this and saying how town you are is absolutely making me scumread you as trying way too hard to hammer into everyone's head "I'm town I'm town I'm town". As if repeating it over and over is actually going to start making people believe it blindly. She was whining about my read on her but neglected the post where I said I intentionally blew the read out of proportion to create an alternative wagon. An alternative wagon that, insofar as I could see at the time, was probably on another town, though I was not wanting to hard town read her at the time for reasons I gave back then. And which prpl enthusiastically (as far as he did ANYTHING enthusiastically this game) jumped on too. She also neglects the part where I was one of the only people pushing on stutters all game and where I bullied pro into a claim. A claim that, one might argue, simply outed a blue. Looking back prpl was in a horrible position. Hell a few posts below your attempt to force the claim was my gigantic post casing prplhz for the benefit of Superbia. Forcing him to make a claim you could CC probably wasn't necessary. Sure the claim and counter claim made it much easier for us to go "okay cool, that's a confirmed mafia kill then" but it probably wasn't needed to get him lynched that day. What it DID do was get a blue called out and killed due to having to counter-claim to guarantee the kill. Honestly if I want to go onto a tinfoil hat theory I'm not sure trying to "force" him to claim is town-motivated here. prp was probably dead anyway, his claim just drew out a blue CC which let mafia get a free blue kill (from someone who was already probably dead no less, bargain). Your actual post from then reads "prp is a role or mafia". This puts you in a position to claim towncredit from it (like you're doing now) whether or not prp got CCd and lynched. More to the point you're supposed to be looking for mafia, not to out roles; so saying "<either> role or mafia" looks horrible to me. As far as I'm concerned you shouldn't be calling people out if you think there's a chance they're a role, you should be pressuring them for more tells to work it out. Blues are perfectly capable of claiming if they're in real danger of dying all by themselves; without you pre-emptively calling them for it. He'll even the play I made during the night phase was 100% but indicative. The play you made during the night phase was absurd and had a reasonable chance of reducing this entire day to a discussion of whether you're lying or whether disformation was lying. Given that disformation had zero reason to believe that you were trying to eat a bullet for him, and the fact that there are no PMs this game so you can't possibly have arranged it, there were basically three outcomes. None of them good for town. 1. You get shot and flip VT or Doc. We then spend a bunch of time debating whether or not disformation is the other alignment or is lying. Potentially mislynching him that day. 2. disformation gets shot and flips VT or Doc. Same as above, except for you this time. Though I'm not sure lynching you would be a mislynch, personally. 3. Neither of you gets shot. We then spend the entire daytime arguing which of the two of you to lynch. Potentially deciding on neither and mislynching someone else. This opens up the game entirely for mafia to have some fun running everyone in circles and screwing with everyone's reads. As it is we got kind of lucky that Superbia managed to pick off Stutters. Which makes the roundabout on nobody being able to work out your alignment now less dangerous. If mafia had managed to make someone look bad enough to dodge the Vigi shot themselves and had been a little cleverer about how they played things the best play might well have been to shoot some other random town. That means town wastes the entire day arguing over which of the two of you to kill and getting reads all confused. Not to even bring up how i am a mason with the vig. He's literally just denied that himself so... Plus nothing I have done fits my scum meta. Go grab my self meta post and check for yourself. I'm not a gigantic fan of looking at the meta of people who I haven't played with before. Your play at several points in this game has been very, very dirty looking. So yeah at this point I'm still fairly okay with either a y0su or ritoky lynch and taking the other one out the next day. Still want to take a look at everyone (been busy today and out for a friend's birthday this evening) before I put up a vote though. Shining your case looks good honestly I'm really not sure what else to add. His read on Stutters there (in comparison with prpl, who was being heavily scumread, and sicklucker) looks particularly nasty in light of the flip. And the questioning was just...eh. It almost seemed like a token gesture to look like he was pressuring Stutters. | ||
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On May 10 2015 10:23 ritoky wrote: -c-, everything you said there, was just absolutely wrong from an objective pov. i think you're a donkey. Prove it; everything I said there was logical and direct. All YOU'VE got going for you is you repeatedly stating things without proving or explaining why and then stating you're confirmed town. Scummy as hell. If you're not scum then you're playing a horrible town game. Nice ad hominem by the way, go much further with the insults and I'm just going to report you. I'm not here to get into a personal pissing match with someone. | ||
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I'm going to bed. Maybe I'll case him tomorrow because his dismissive and evasive attitude and repeated attempts to claim he's confirmed town are all giving me seriously bad vibes. | ||
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On May 10 2015 10:47 ritoky wrote: You just don't like me because I am being an egotistical asshole, not because of my play. That is the entirety of your case. You don't like me calling myself confirmed town and being antagonistic. No. I don't like you calling yourself town because you are NOT proven town. And you repeatedly claiming yourself to be so, in my eyes, is YOU attempting to fool people into believing it without questioning it. It is a scummy as hell action and a shallow and blatant attempt at psychological manipulation. Now you're trying to misrepresent my case. That's scum motivation right there. 1) You have an afk player who you have a role or scum read on what do you do as town: force them to claim via pressure/lynch pressure. What does ritoky do: force him to claim via pressure/lynch pressure, then lynch him. Bollocks. You have an afk player who is already being scumread by increasing numbers of people and is actively being cased. If you suspect they're either role or mafia you do NOT need to force a claim out of this when they're already heading in the direction of a lynch. There is dick all reason to do so unless you think they're being overlooked. Best case scenario if they're blue is that they come back and breadcrumb and argue well enough to demonstrate they're a bad lynch. Worst case scenario is they have to out themselves anyway. They do not need your encouragement to do so. 2) Your doctor cc's a doctor claim, and you are VT, what do you do? You try and take his role and fake claim it to obfuscate the shot and potentially save the doctor. I have explained time after time after time why this argument doesn't hold up. It comes down simply to the fact that YOUR CLAIM WAS NEVER, EVER GOING TO WORK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Which we have discussed in detail if you'd actually read the goddamn thread. I don't think anyone at any point apart from y0su has thought that it was ever going to have a hope of achieving anything useful. In short, it was a horrible play that was never going anywhere good. These are town plays 101. They are always beneficial to the town. The scenarios you outlined are implausible. Wrong. Flat out wrong. For reasons listed above. With a claimed doctor, the mafia is not going to shoot a non-doctor so your scenarios are just plain garbage. And yet every single scenario involving you claiming that disfo claimed for you simply results in more confusion for town; because ultimately nobody else knows what the hell you're trying to pull. Regardless of which of you is the actual Doc and regardless of who mafia shoots. Which I detailed in full previously. The comical part here is that when you say "your scenarios"...those scenarios actually covered every possibility. X-D I am sorry, but you are the one playing a horrible town game if you can't see how clearly VT I am. And there we go again with the bullshit "OH LOOK EVERYONE I'M VT!" Dirty as hell. Only a scum would be this desperate to have everyone read them as VT. And donkey is not an insult it is actually a term in mafia; like wifom, or ebwop; it means a town who is very wrong and stubborn. I take it as an insult and a personal one. Sod off. Have I invalidated everything for you yet? Good, now time to find us the last mafia. Your play is horrible and your post here just reinforces my impression that you're getting panicky and talking total crap. Your logic is terrible and a blatant attempt at manipulating the facts. You're flat out misrepresenting things I say to make yourself look good. Therefore you're probably the last mafia. ##vote:ritoky | ||
-Celestial-
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And then claiming that that all makes him town. X-D | ||
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- Babbles about incoherently for a bit. Posting for the sake of posting. Eventually gets around to asking disfo about Superbia. Follows that up (which is good) and then goes off on incoherent rambling again. - Goes to y0su and starts going on about Superbia again. Despite the fact that he's claiming that he doesn't think Superbia is mafia his ONLY pushes so far have been to poke at the thoughts of two newer players about him which is kind of weird. Like he's trying to persuade them to tunnel on him. - Despite the fact he's done pretty much jack all so far and his filter is a pile of rambling off in random directions he quickly jumps on my red reading him early (because of that rambling and incoherent misdirection play) and says that the read is "lulz". Even though he's showing absolutely no evidence why. - Incredibly quick to jump onto FF's side. FF is being heavily townread from the very start whilst ritoky has done bugger all. But quickly tries to align himself with the strongest townread person in the game rather than allow people to make their own conclusions. Easy scum motivation for this. - Because I'm the only one heavily redreading him the next few posts are him pushing at me, looking for holes he can exploit. When he realises he CAN'T do this and that I'm pretty much being townread too he does this: On May 03 2015 12:04 ritoky wrote: ritoky, ff, -c- we will start from here "Doesn't my name look pretty in green next to these others that people are townreading?" - Now that scott is looking good for a lynch he starts trying to pick away at there too bit deliberately avoids doing anything too obvious. More slight pokes but nothing to ruffle any feathers. So far he's just quietly sat back and done just enough to make it look like he's doing something whilst doing relatively little whilst simultaneously consistently trying to place himself next to other people who are being townread. - disfo pushes back on ritoky, pointing out that basically all he's done so far is pick at newer players and speculating that he's looking for an easy lynch. ritoky, rather than responding, retaliates by questioning disfo about scott. Even though disfo wasn't the only one ritoky was poking at. He handwaves the fact that he's pushing on new players by only referring to disfo and effectively saying that that isn't scum indicative. Yet he still fails to actually do anything dramatic. - Reinforces he likes my scott read . In fact he's said that a few times now. Starts to question Superbia about scott. All aboard the scott train? - Claims he's not scumhunting but is looking for town. Eh. Then once again puts himself with me and FF. "Second tier" being prpl (who had done jack all by this point and flipped red later) and Superbia. - Claims prp is town for ONE POST in which prpl expressed a vague feeling about Shining. Wow. Just wow. - Pushed for more details on prpl. Describes him as having made "one of the highest quality observations in the game". Seriously are we reading the same person? prpl has done bugger all by this point. Literally nothing of real value. And claims that prpl is giving definitive alignment reads rather than hedging which is absolute bollocks. prpl has posted game-relevant posts like three times by this point. Two of which ritoky had quoted in his own post. Neither of which outright scumread Shining. Just look at this crap: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=20#398 And compare with prpl's filter. The third game-relevant post is him agreeing with Superbia about how he doesn't think mafia has posted yet. Absolute joke; here ritoky is either a fool or scum. - Superbia speculates about getting a sicklucker wagon going. ritoky throws out a weak probe at Superbia asking for more information. - Stutters posts questioning ritoky's read and bussing prpl a little but hedges his bets saying that he doesn't think its definitive. ritoky immediately replies by making excuses for prpl. All a nice little ruse for the two of them to get some nice towny credit by questioning each other whilst also allowing ritoky to reinforce his "I think prpl is innocent" line? - Superbia suggests a sicklucker train. ritoky is totally noncommital. Superbia points out that ritoky hasn't done anything with the vote anyway. ritoky says he doesn't believe in pressure votes. Goes back to asking Stutters for reads. Nothing particularly alignment indicative here although I don't like that he says he doesn't believe in pressure votes but the way he votes on HtS later is perfectly fine because it was seeking information. So he's clearly willing to vote people just for more info, which is it? - Questions scott on Superbia and FF and asking why scott's read on them doesn't apply to him (ritoky). This is goddamn hilarious considering that scott was townreading both FF and Superbia. Once again he's DESPERATELY trying to get townread by people but nobody is buying it and its making him upset it seems. Seriously, just look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#446 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#448 - Starts to pick up some people he wants to lynch. Shining because of a tone read (your own tone isn't so great yourself either, mate) and HtS because she's only just entered the thread and hasn't been able to immediately start drawing conclusions. - Complains that y0su has been asking questions but not drawing conclusions and putting them in the thread. Which is kinda funny considering how bad ritoky has been at following things up and drawing conclusions himself (that is to say conclusions other than "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN!"). - Shining responds to ritoky's toneread of him; calling ritoky out for weakly scumreading people and doing jack all else. ritoky responds by saying Shining is overreacting, claiming he does have stances that are in the thread (his only strong stances in the thread are that a few obvious townies are town, prpl is town and "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN TOO!") and then saying he doesn't really have any proper scumreads except a weak one on HtS. So basically a pile of nothing at this point; and yet he's getting away with it by pretending to do something. - Asks sicklucker to post more. Which isn't really indicative of anything at all. I think everyone was wanting to see more from him. - Starts to say that he thinks y0su is top town now, saying he likes his process because it was similar to his own. Not alignment indicative, very easy comment to make. - Drifts around aimlessly a bit on HtS with the whole "might be scum might be town" thing. Complains that she's drawing totally different conclusions to him (gee, sounds a bit like what I'm doing, doesn't it?). - Goes back once again to disformation. He's got a real obsession with disformation here. Asking about scott now. - Complains that nobody he reads well is playing. Goes both ways on disfo by saying part of his post he likes and part he doesn't like. So...what's your conclusion? Nothing again, okay. - Explaining to disfo what he didn't like and giving a reason for it. Kinda towny. Then gets upset because disfo wasn't crediting him for the "we" thing that scott said. - Makes one of the few strongly towny posts I've seen by saying "wrong =/= mafia". - Repeats his earlier comment about HtS dialing into the same things but not having the same reactions. Nothing new here and frankly I'm not sure I like it. Someone not having the same reactions shouldn't be a case of "oh they're reading it differently, I don't like that". It should be a case of "they're reading it differently, I should TRY TO FIND OUT WHY". At least if you're town. If you're scum you can just make the vague comment and use it as an excuse to train on them. - Finally goddamn "realises" that prpl is doing nothing at all. Starts to dislike him for it. Also mentions that he doesn't like Stutters though doesn't give any real conclusions as to why. Interestingly he much earlier commented that "if you read my mafia game I bus mercilessly". Setting himself up for either or both of them to flip red? - Starts to pull back on the scott thing. Knows scott is going to flip green? I don't find his reasoning particularly scummy here but this sudden turnabout is interesting. Sure it doesn't help to not have a second train but considering he says he's so sure scott will flip... - Starts going onto Tictock. Who didn't want to vote on scott even though he found it to be an appealing case and felt that prpl was looking scummy. Claims that Tictock was finding "one to be scum and one inactive" which is just...misrepresenting Tictock's post to a certain extent to make TT look bad. Casts doubt by saying "where's this hesitancy coming from?" - Asks Stutters for posts. Asks Shining about his thoughts on Superbia reading filters. Whole load of nothing. Effectively more questions for questions sake, no real hard pushes for answers. Uses it as an excuse to cast doubt on Shining again though. - Shows the first piece of self-awareness I've seen all game. It almost looks like he's setting himself up to handwave red reads on him by saying "well yeah, I look that way when I'm town sometimes" with this quote: On May 05 2015 04:42 ritoky wrote: because self perception is not always what others perceive. for example i have rolled scum in games, posted in the game and been like "i am town jesus here" and literal 0 people read me town. i have also rolled scum, thought i was shit and got universally town read. - More stuff about Shining. Really doesn't like Shining it seems. "Complex null" - Another attempt to put himself with FF whilst making HtS look bad: On May 05 2015 04:53 ritoky wrote: no i meant you're giving effort based reads on HtS, yet you avoid giving effort based reads on say...me or ff. - Complains HtS looks "diplomatic". What? - Jumps on prpl's train against HtS. Despite his claims lately in trying to take town credit for that he does NOT start that wagon. Relevant quotes: On May 05 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote: i too am also interested in seeing where this goes. although i don't think scott is a bad lynch. ##vote: hts Which is a response to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=35#693 On May 10 2015 03:39 ritoky wrote: She was whining about my read on her but neglected the post where I said I intentionally blew the read out of proportion to create an alternative wagon. You did NOT start that wagon moving you dirty liar. prpl did. Your vote was registered before his because he forgot to vote in the actual voting thread; although he apparently suddenly "remembered" half an hour later and did so without comment. Did you remind him in scum QT? Then you started saying that you're doing it because she's reading things differently to you (guess what? A bunch of people were) and that she usually leads from the front, despite the fact she joined the game pretty late on for reasons explained pre-game. Superbia was getting extremely frustrated with HtS and the lack of a proper alternate wagon at this point which I can understand and was mostly driving the thing. If ritoky were scumreading her so hard then where the hell was he pushing this wagon? - ritoky doesn't push the wagon. He makes a few quiet inquiries to people about their thoughts on HtS and makes a snarky comment about her not pushing Tictock for an answer. Tictock made one single post in-between which was obviously an in-and-out job since he damn near missed the deadline. And I think HtS missed the post anyway. - Calling out HtS again for responding after they started voting for her. Eh...and? *shrug* Also misrepresenting how HtS has been acting which is bad. - Pre-emptively sets himself up for saying scott is green despite the fact that earlier on he was saying he liked the scott train but didn't like the lack of a secondary wagon. - Claims that as town who is probably getting lynched you vote on who you think is the scummiest person rather than voting on the opposing wagon if you think that wagon might also be town. Both me and sicklucker disagree and honestly his thought process is here is stupid. If you're town you're the only person apart from flips and people who manage to get confirmed in certain ways (like Superbia's vigi kill) who you absolutely know the alignment of 100%. Even if you're pretty sure the other wagon is town you don't KNOW it. Therefore the best possible option for yourself is to try to keep yourself alive (again because you know you're town, but can't be absolutely certain of the other). - Accuses HtS of OMGUS on him and prpl after HtS was poking at Superbia's posting. - Starts to handwave his read on HtS. Setting himself up to distance himself from the read when she flips green? Saying it was all about setting up another wagon (again, you didn't start it up, prpl did, Superbia drove it). Now is calling out FF and prpl for dropping off and saying "where are my town buddies". Yet again "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN SRSLY!" - Claims he's probably dying tonight. What for? Damned if I know why he thinks he's getting shot here because he's got no real reads apart from a weak red read on HtS and a bunch of nulls and townreads that he keeps drifting back towards null (his recent comments on FF for example) whilst simultaneously trying to align himself with town over and over simply by saying it. - Pushes me for refusing to townread HtS just because she has the same reads as me. Sorry but no, I don't buy the "because someone has the same reads as me they're town" ethos. - Starts asking HtS about why she isn't gunning for prp before saying "or do you have the same read I do on prp?" WHAT goddamn read on prp? You were heavily townreading and then have spent the previous two days tempering that with "oh but he's not been about much so he's going null", despite willingly going along with the train he started. You've hardly been GIVING reads except to say "I'm town, X is town and Y is town" over and over. - Back and forth with Stutters. Not really alignment indicative. Given his much earlier comments about how he busses people I'm not really willing to accept any ritoky vs red discussion as indicative that he's town honestly. - Disagrees on HtS point that having the same reads as someone else isn't alignment indicative. Big surprise there, he seems to put a lot of stock in it. Worked out well with prpl didn't it? - Confirms me as town. Then puts himself, me and y0su together as town. Seriously, stop doing this crap. You are NOT confirmed town by anyone but yourself. Complains about HtS' tone but says she says townie stuff. Another "complex null". More complaints about HtS. - Asks Superbia for a read on y0su. Probably because he was hedging his bets on y0su earlier by saying "maybe I'm just giving him a pass". - "Scum side of null" for HtS. Totally unwilling to commit or actual build a coherent case. - Questioning Superbia about y0su again. Despite the fact he's reading y0su as town he's asking Superbia what townie things y0su has done. Don't even know what to make of this, he's just all over the place. Also starts looking at FF again, asking about the dropoff. - Said he was going to die, now is saying that I'm going to die. Whatever. Neither of us did anyway. FF did, and he was a very easy kill to take since everyone was reading him town but he wasn't quite as active as some of us. - Explains his thoughts on me to Superbia. Not indicative of anything at all. Pushing prpl for his views on Tictock. But a very light exchange here. Neither saying very much. Towns me some more and FF I think. Weighs in on the RB claim by Superbia but doesn't really go anywhere with it other than to say he doesn't like sickluckers argument much. Thread was kicking a Superbia lynch about for a while which he said he didn't like. Comments that he doesn't like disfo or Stutters. Still blatantly ignoring prpl of course. WIFOMs a bit over the NK. - More buggering about with the Superbia lynch, SL trying to push that on his calculations. Stutters is trying to bus prpl pointing out we have a really good lynch there. ritoky asks why he didn't push it D1 then which is...er...considering Stutters specifically stated its been good since NIGHT 1. Just a whole load of nothing, Stutters isn't moving his vote. - Calls HtS out for saying 2 of the 4 people who didn't vote on the main green train are mafia. Not sure I entirely believe this argument. If both are running and both are green then why NOT jump onto the smaller one, especially if you can claim you were trying to get more information from the game by having two wagons. Claims that nobody has been towning Superbia all game and says that means people practically pre-voted and that its a too easy vote as a result. Setting himself up for a Superbia town flip? At this point the vote was dead even with two on prpl and two on Superbia, hardly a runaway train. Nulling Superbia himself; saying Superbia has been aggressively pocketing him (ritoky that is). So who AREN'T you nulling or townreading? Closes to an actual red is "Complex null" on HtS and Shining as far as I can tell. And STILL no conclusions on prpl. - Complaining to Stutters some more about his read of prpl. Keeps going back to the "this isn't him being a good target since D1" which is something nobody except ritoky said. I don't think anyone is really paying attention to this discussion at all honestly. The bigger thing going on is between HtS and Superbia so its easily lost in the noise but gives something they can both neatly point back to as having done. Convenient. - Asks Superbia about his thoughts on ritoky's read of him as null. Superbia is still goddamn townreading prpl for the same reasons that ritoky was townreading prpl; but ritoky is no longer doing so now that prpl is a viable lynch candidate (despite his only misgivings being "oh he's inactive" and not prpl's actual content at all; despite the fact that the argument against prpl also included content). How convenient. - Linking disfom with prpl and Superbia as being the mafia team if they weren't having two voting on the main wagon. Making it look like this is a thought-through answer. Looking at the actual votes the only people off that wagon were scott (who got lynched), ritoky, Superbia and prpl. So basically the only two other people not voting on the main wagon that aren't him. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to identify that this is basically the only conclusion you would make regardless; but the way you're presenting it is as if you've given it any thought at all. And you're hammering on how you think two are on the main wagon. Worried that someone might realise "hey, there were THREE alive people who weren't on that wagon and one was ritoky, could it be him"? - More arguments with Stutters over prpl. Again I don't find it particularly indicative of anything. This is going nowhere in light of the fact the main focus is currently HtS and me trying to get through to Superbia that prpl is shady as hell. - Makes his grand "prpl is a role or mafia" claim. Which I've pointed out previously is a terrible play. He's done jack all to try to find prpl's alignment and has, in fact, been somewhat defending him. Rather than trying to work out if prpl is scum or blue he calls on him to claim. I repeat. He calls a person who he claims to have been wavering null on but has been actively defending against a bus to claim their role. This is beyond absurd and is horribly anti-town. The pressure is ALREADY steadily increasing on prpl, if he's a blue he's perfectly capable of claiming blue himself closer to the deadline if it still looks like he can't shift the train himself. He doesn't need that additional pressure but it does allow ritoky to pretend to be town in nature if he knows prpl is already considering fakeclaiming; precisely by saying he "forced out a claim" even though he's done NOTHING to pressure prpl lately. - Starts hedging on Shining and disfo now. What a surprise considering disfo turns up blue. Nulling anything approaching a read once again. Claims he made an error in his spreadsheet with respect to Tictock and disfo and the earlier comments about who is what team if two mafia are off the main train. Basically irrelevant here. Starts trying to get me to notice that he's said "prpl is a role or mafia"; as if disappointed that people aren't praising him for the comment. Decides to start pushing on disfo, complaining that he's being too easily townread; can kinda see a bit of townie in that. - Now he's lynching prpl unless he claims and doesn't get CCd. That's a nice little turnaround there considering you'd shown basically no sign of considering him until HtS and I started to push him hard as a lynch target and you haven't even commented on that all that much other than to ask that he claim. Says there's a red between Tictock and prp, y0su and Shining. The prp call is again just following the flow of the thread. He's really drawing attention to y0su being potential scum here which I kinda like in retrospect because right now I'm feeling y0su isn't a bad call either; but ritoky seems more likely given everything so far. - Starts the stuff about him getting the wagon on HtS going and making excuses that he was intentionally exaggerating it. More stuff about how he doesn't think two mafia are on the secondary wagon (honestly at this point I think that whole argument has just devolved into total WIFOM; we can't know how the mafia voted and scott was probably dying ANYWAY given the number of votes on him). Some general gameplay type comments about how mafia play, obviously ones that makes his actions look town. Calls out prpl to give a claim again. Votes prpl. - Then tries the whole garbage about "thanks for claiming my role, disfo". I've talked about this exhaustively but he still thinks its an obvious townplay. Its not, not in this setup. All it does is introduce confusion because no WAY does anyone other than a newbie scum team who is not listening to their coaches shoot anyone other than the first claim in a no-PM setup where such a gambit couldn't possibly be prearranged. Mafia doing the safest thing results in precisely what we've got right now: no way for the town to trust that ritoky wasn't trying to pull a fast one and sow confusion. There's a reason everyone seems to be rating him and y0su as basically auto-lynches for today and tomorrow. If they'd been willing to take more of a gamble (and assuming that ritoky IS innocent) then they could have shot another random towny and that could have resulted in the entire day spent just discussing whether to lynch ritoky or disfomation who, under this scenario, would have been both totally innocent. Much more of a gamble, but a bigger payoff potentially. Look into my filter for more stuff on this, last couple of pages of it I think. - Stuff about statistics. Saying he doesn't want to lynch TT tomorrow (well honestly you mostly give off the impression you don't want to lynch ANYBODY except for a vague attempt to support the HtS lynch day 1). More excuses about your claim which I've already pointed out is just absurd. Claiming AGAIN to be confirmed town. Claiming AGAIN to have started up that wagon on her. Claiming AGAIN about how everything you do is "clearly town-motivated, come on guys, scout's honour". Then trying to get people to meta you (sorry, I don't really buy into meta arguments unless its people I've actually played with). - Wavering some more over y0su. Claiming yet again that everything done so far was 100% townplay and anyone who says otherwise is wrong or lying. Despite the fact that I don't think anyone actually fully bought into the idea that he was town for it largely because it was never, ever going to work. Spends a bunch of time spewing stuff about how it makes him town and its a 100% correct townplay despite outright being proven wrong by examples of how it screws over town; which he dismisses as "garbage" despite the fact we're actually experiencing one of those examples right now (because, again, loads of people have him as the secondary lynch target after y0su). Then spends a bunch of time trying to undermine me but singularly failing to refute anything at all. Conclusion: Sorry but this entire thing looks horrible. Its either really poor townplay with a total lack of conviction on anything except "I'M TOWN" or he's scum. The fact that he doesn't even try to explain himself but dismisses it as "but its obviously town" looks even worse. | ||
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On May 11 2015 02:54 Superbia wrote: Scratch ritoky off the lynch list folks. Not happening for reasons detailed above. | ||
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On May 11 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote: Celestial makes a few good arguments against ritoky taking credit but I have to do serious filter diving to make sure the sequence of events particularly with the thread sentiment and his push on prplhz really lines up that way. Otherwise we really could just be paranoid as shit all when y0su could very well be another gimme mafia. Having just filtered him myself his "push" on prpl, if you can even call it that, came when you were already hammering Superbia with "prpl is scum" and so the thread was already full of "prpl is scum". So... Here's ritoky's post on it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=62#1221 | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:11 ritoky wrote: i love these scum cases on me, they list a bunch of stuff and i say to myself "wow that's town" If you think that's townplay and you actually are town you're a horrible judge of townplay. Then again we already know that since you were reading prpl so hard as town despite him doing jack all. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:19 ritoky wrote: When someone posts the post: "fuck you, i am not posting a lot this game" this directly translates to: "hi everyone, i am a role or mafia". on day 1 you should always play assuming that person is a role. i am trying to teach you how to town. And your response was to unnecessarily call for him to claim it when he was already under heavy pressure anyway; simply so you could claim some credit for yourself despite doing nothing. Bollocks, total bollocks. I don't need teaching by an incompetent player like yourself. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:23 Half the Sky wrote: Yawn. Standards being the lack of followthrough and the tonal read, this is about the third time or even more than that tone has come up. Also your responses show you aren't critically looking at why he changed direction. Nor did you appear to even analyse my walls of text (other than saying it was walls of text). Having actually read his filter he has hardly looked at anyone critically at all. Despite his complaints that some of the new people weren't drawing conclusions he drew very few strong ones himself, and most of them he went back on anyway or made excuses for. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:28 ritoky wrote: it was pretty low content stuff hence why i called it walls of text. one of them was even about the princess bride if i recall correctly. so sorry if my critical thinking cap turned off at that point She was explaining the term WIFOM. Which was highly relevant. The fact that you're misrepresenting this makes it even more likely that you're scum. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:30 ritoky wrote: #1) i have the longest active winning streak as mafia on TL, so uh, gl with that incompetency argument getting you anywhere. #2) you have blinders on: "on day 1 you should always play assuming that person is a role." #3) the forcing him to claim came on day 2 in which i was going to CC him as VT, he claimed when i wasn't here and i didn't get the chance, oh well. sorry bro, you in the tunnel on some bad juice. i think you're town though. 1. "As mafia" means dick all. Your town play here is horrible. Fact. You've done dick all to help us this game, instead spending most of it setting yourself up to claim credit on stuff people were already doing and yelling "I'm town" at every opportunity. None of what you've done is pro-town, in fact you've actively tried to confuse and misrepresent. 2. Which is basically irrelevant. You were still townreading him and nullreading him WELL into D2 until your sudden turnaround, as I detailed in the full analysis of your filter. 3. "You gotta believe me, bro, this is what I was going to do." I actually called out that you'd have this response in response to disfomation getting whacked or lynched after you doing that. Yeah, not buying it. Yeah I'm tunneled, I'm tunneled on either the last scum or the worst attempt to look town in this game barring prpl. On May 11 2015 03:32 ritoky wrote: yes, that is low content. speaking generally is low content, whereas speaking specifically is content. man you are really pissed about something, i hope it gets dealt with so you can be happier. Bollocks, it was highly relevant because y0su asked the question goddamn directly and she took that to assume he didn't know what she was getting at. It was a direct response to a direct question she was trying to answer, specific to a point being made. Hell if you want to argue the low-content thing your filter is FULL of low-content stuff. In fact your strongest town-based posts are low-content ones. As for being pissed, it'll get dealt with when you stop insulting me and get lynched and never bother me again. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:35 ritoky wrote: starting to lose my caring about this game. people calling me mafia for doing town things is annoying me: You are literally the only person in this entire game saying everything you are doing is "obvious town". You are also the only person in this entire game who has consistently read you, ritoky, as town. And you've been incredibly vocal about that. Either you're a HORRIBLE town player with an ego that makes you think you're amazing or you're scum. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:42 ritoky wrote: I haven't insulted you once. I have insulted your play though. You have. Get out. Not confirming you, idiot. Get out. | ||
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Before I cased you. And with no evidence. Sure, bro. Get out. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:35 Half the Sky wrote: I'm seeing similar jumps/misrepresentations in logic as he's making when he was serial killer in Titanic. To be honest that crap is throughout his entire filter. I couldn't believe the amount he'd gotten away with after actually looking through it. Either he's totally incompetent or he's scum. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:47 ritoky wrote: I feel like I should parrot your ad hominem comment from earlier in response to this, and threaten reports like you did. Bring it on. Don't care. And yes you confirmed me. "Your town play here is horrible" implies you know that I am town. But that's technicalities, you're not typing from your head anymore. Its pretty funny how you honestly think that that implies that you're town. Would you feel better if it read "your attempt at town play"? I was attempting to be brief but if you find it difficult to comprehend if its not spelt out for you I guess I can do that. And I see no need to type from my head in response to your nonsense here. I've already fully cased how scummy not long ago and some interesting talks with HtS about it further. I don't need to convince you, because you already know you're scum. | ||
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I know its okay for Superbia to be wrong. Because the right answer is you, you're the final scum. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:49 ritoky wrote: You will see what you want to see when you already have the conclusion in your head. Of course I have the conclusion. I've already thoroughly cased you and it turned up red. You're scum. Or a terrible town player. As evidenced by the godawful way you've played this entire game as per my earlier post. Take your pick of the two. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:54 Superbia wrote: ritoky how would you approach this day as scum? Exactly as he already has been. Misdirecting and hoping for a mislynch. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:58 Superbia wrote: Like ritoky might be fooling me here but I think he's town. I've never seen anyone get away with being so indecisive and inconclusive without being called on it honestly; and I read a fair few games over Christmas ahead of playing in LX. I think its because he's posted "stuff" without posting anything of real value. If he's town he's been basically useless for this entire game. He's done jack to help and has successfully got a significant number of people reading him in their PoE list. But nah, he's obviously town, because he says so. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:06 Superbia wrote: I don't believe prp is scum because the wagon on him so obviously contains mafia. prp made himself the easiest bus in the entire universe by doing quite literally nothing for the entire game. Kinda illustrates how screwed he was at that point, really. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:11 Superbia wrote: Idk, maybe you're right. But that doesn't necessarily makes him town. I do agree that his town filter usually is a bit more proactive, but the interactions between mafia and him feel too genuine for him to be mafia. Also I feel like ritoky would be the first to bus prp. I assume you mean scum where you say town the first time there. Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. What I do know is that we would literally be at the exact same point we are now if he hadn't played at all. :-\ | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:14 Half the Sky wrote: This is exactly why I hate the mindmelding argument. Also the reason that the "their reads match up with my reads" argument is so, so dangerous as one to cling onto. It is most definitely not strongly indicative of anything at all and can be deceptive. :-\ | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:19 Superbia wrote: Yeah. I'm quite tired. I agree, he probably can't live through this game. =/ But for now I don't think he's the most likely lynch. Like I posted the other day, at this point I feel its probably either ritoky or y0su. I wasn't too bothered about which order we lynch them in but right now ritoky has severely hacked me off so I'm voting him first. *shrug* Of course if one gets lynched and the other gets shot then the game gets interesting again. But that never happens because correct mafia play if both are mislynches is to shoot somebody else and let town run with the two mislynches. | ||
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I know its post-game, but I still think he's mafia with the crap he was pulling earlier tbh. Horrible reasoning. On May 11 2015 05:13 The Shining wrote: I'm gonna get no cred for that association case, huh? SOMEONE FEED MY EGO. Which specific association case, out of interest? Linky, I'll feed your ego if I can read it and its good. y0su you just got really unlucky tbh. Especially with prpl who did pretty much literally nothing for you. Nice try though; I'd definitely try again because I don't think its normal to have someone so totally inactive that doesn't actually get replaced. >_> | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:21 Half the Sky wrote: Celestial gets an award for the craziest tunnel: scumreading ritoky post-game. If I am ever in a game with him again I am literally 100% voting him day 1 for lynch and every subsequent day until he dies. His townplay here just resulted in confusion. >_> | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:23 ritoky wrote: -c- donkeyed it up :D Go screw yourself. | ||
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But sure, I'm terrible at this. Oh lol. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:22 y0su wrote: It didn't help that BH (coach) had a very different schedule (time zones). I came into d1 completely cold (hence so many "how does this work? What's going on? questions) That's pretty unfortunate. :-\ Worked out not too bad though. Look at it this way: you managed to be the last surviving mafia on your team in your first game. That definitely counts for something. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:26 ritoky wrote: it's a game dude, don't take things personally or you won't survive in mafia. I take things personally when you start insulting me. So yeah. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:29 ritoky wrote: Never once insulted you. I will maintain this until the end of time. No mod contacted me about my play. Everything I stated was a direct relation to your play and nothing about you. I'm not surprised. I didn't end up actually complaining to anyone about it. You did insult me. It was a direct insult. And its amusing you have a go at my play when you did absolutely nothing to help town this game. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:29 The Shining wrote: Lmao @ Cel. But I won't lie, ritoky and yosu went back and forth like 50x in my mind. And it's nothing special but this one here I wanted feedback on it so badly cuz I rarely do full blown posts like that and I want to know what to work on. Your link is broken, but I found it anyway, heh. Was a good case. Personally I hadn't liked the way he split up his reads across two posts either. Especially given the way one half of them was pretty town and the other half pretty scum. As for how to improve it...personally for me I'd have preferred to see it formatted a bit differently. Each quote with a comment specific to that quote underneath so it was easier to follow. As it was it was kinda "Bleh, wall of quotes" "Bleh wall of texts" and honestly the very first time I saw it I just skimmed before going back later when I was firming up my PoE list. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:45 Half the Sky wrote: But Celestial, I'll be very honest with you here...this batch of veterans are normally very tame. Criticism of gameplay is the normal in mafia, even with town/town interactions - a really good scum player will know how to get into people's heads, and I've seen it before with some of the heavier tone players like geript/rayn/holyflare/JAT, etc. It's honestly something you (and even I to an extent) need to work on. Even as town, you're not going to be perfect overnight. Not sure what you're getting at here. Put bluntly if I'm actively casing someone and THEIR response to that (not somebody else's response, note) is to throw insults at me you can be damned sure I'm scumming them hard for it. I value logical arguments against the points I'm making; I'm a qualified scientist after all, using evidence and logic to refute something is kinda the entirety of the job (and being unable to refute something makes it a result, rather like mafia in that respect, hence how I played this game). Throwing insults simply looks like a temper-tantrum attempt to undermine the points without actually addressing them, which is a scum move. Hence my gigantic post on ritoky's entire filter to beat him over the head with it and try and actually get some logical argument out of him instead of the "lol, but I'm town" thing. Which he never did. Note that nobody else was actually questioning my read on him, only he was, and that questioning amounted to nothing more than insults and "lol I'm town, srsly". Which is why I'm somewhat sarcastically still scumreading him post-game. | ||
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On May 11 2015 05:57 GlowingBear wrote: Why the hell did prp claim Doctor instead of a role that wasn't in the game??? lololol Setup was fixed to Cop/Doc, Cop/Vet, Vig/Doc or Vig/Vet. Anything he would have claimed would have been CCd. Unless you mean something else? | ||
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On May 11 2015 06:01 rsoultin wrote: lol you'll find that being rational is not a requirement to play mafia or to be town ^^ i had trouble with it too when i first started playing One would hope that in a game of logic that rationality would be a thing. But I guess maybe I'm expecting a bit much. X-D | ||
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On May 11 2015 06:12 The Shining wrote: Yeah gb meant why didnt he claim cop or vet, since they knew we had a doc/vig I mean I GUESS they might have been able to sneak it by an inattentive blue player? Dunno. *shrug* Was still a desperate play on prpl's part. On May 11 2015 06:14 rsoultin wrote: lol rationality is a thing, but irrational responses = mafia is generally not a thing if that makes any sense or even irrational reasons for reads -_- unfortunately Ye gods why do people have to make this harder than it is. X-D | ||
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Because I mean...no way can Vig claim before he's made his shot there or they just RB him all game. So he might have gotten a mislynch off on D2? Of course he's 100% dead unless they guess that they got the RB right because Vig probably just shoots him then. I guess the question then comes down to whether you better value an extra mislynch and a sort-of wasted Vig shot (that is to say a Vig shot on a guy who is 100% dead either way) or a guaranteed doc kill. | ||
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On May 11 2015 06:43 Superbia wrote: Also shoutout to town for pointing me in the right direction with prp. Shoutout to you for getting an excellent shot on Stutters. Didn't have him read as a priority at all but BAM. Although by the gods you were a stubborn bugger with your read on prp. Haha. | ||
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Expect more in future games. Although probably with a bit more analysis. For that one as a test I kinda went "stream of consciousness" on it and I'm not as happy with the result as I would like. Was busy that day so I didn't have time to sit down properly and go through it and pull it together cleanly (which would have taken another two hours or so). Just be thankful I wasn't still on Superbia because his filter was massive this game, about 50% longer again than ritoky's. So it'd have been an even BIGGER post. @Tictock: You were fine honestly. Like HtS said you did a good job at demonstrating you were town which made it easier to nail down the scummy players. You were pretty far down my list of "most lynchables" at the end and I think most other people felt the same; which is a good talent to have when you play. | ||
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