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Kinda busy at the moment although I really do want to get a set of reads out before EoN in case I get shot. Anyway I've had some time to sleep and reflect on all of this now so I got a few comments on certain people based on that and based on a quick look over the past couple of pages again.
Given everything at EoD and the fact scott flipped green I can't put Superbia as my top D2 lynch anymore. I'm planning to re-read everything later but my first impressions are that its far less likely he's a red.
I'm really not buying what Tictock has been trying to sell lately. The more I think about it the more "convenient" it looks for him the way everything fell. The guy he voted for wasn't anywhere near getting lynched and it was super last minute so it wasn't even as if it was stubbornness refusing to change his vote. He could have put that on damn near anyone and then tried to cover it up and given that a VT got lynched by a clear majority it might well have gone unnoticed.
I'm also really not liking prplhz at all. Again, the more I think about it the more uncomfortable I am. I already pointed out my problems with him last night and time away hasn't made those concerns go away.
The Stutters and Superbia thing just feels really town on town to me. Superbia brings up legitimate concerns but Stutters' response to them feels all wrong for him being a mafia. Its a bit of a tone read but he just seems too relaxed about it for him to actually be concerned here.
HtS...the jury is still out on her. The hard part is having actually played on a scum team with her I've seen how good she can play scum so even if she appears to be the towniest townie who ever did townie I'm still likely to be suspicious. That being said at first glance I'm not seeing a lot in her posts that I can particularly put a finger on as being scummy.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:59 Half the Sky wrote:
Mods, can I edit that out?
yep yep
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On May 05 2015 22:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 10:34 Stutters695 wrote:
What do you make of Sup calling me out for "ninja" voting but not saying anything after about it? I saw you saying you were unsure on where he felt I was, but I'm torn on how to take that.
Part of me wants to say that's a really town reaction because he felt he caught scum. But he never acknowledged he was wrong and it implies he wasn't reading the thread that well while he was here.
I don't know. Looks like I missed Superbia's second post when I said he was unsure on how he felt. So much was flying around at EoD, I had missed it. Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 07:56 Superbia wrote:On May 05 2015 07:56 Stutters695 wrote:On May 05 2015 06:33 Stutters695 wrote:
##vote: Scott31337
Just in case I'm not here closer to the deadline. Forgot to put it in the voting thread and realized I was going to get modkilled. Get over yourself. Not engaging in conversation until pinged out. Big town plays. The second post reads as sarcastic to me given his first sentence. So I think he's calling you scum for your ninja vote. However, I checked your filter, and you listed at least three times as to why you didn't like Scott prior to the vote, so him calling it a ninja vote is just him looking at the timestamps and throwing it out there. You voted in thread about 90m prior and in voting thread approx 75m prior. Although he calls it a ninja vote at 5m prior. He goes back to read the stuff on me and clearly he was looking at other things too when he called your ninja vote (and linked it) yet he didn't catch when you voted and still called it ninja. You haven't changed your reads on Scott from what I can tell. It's definitely selective reading and mafia can cherry pick the posts to fit their arguments. That's the (scum) impression I get from him. Also he's saying you're not engaging in conversation. That statement doesn't really do anything productive as you have already stated your reasons for voting Scott. (Nor am I seeing his reasons for contesting that.) Superbia gets back in thread and we have these series of quotes from him. Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 07:04 Superbia wrote:
Like at this point I'd lynch HtS or maybe disformation. It's the same problem I have with Superbia voting me, he's not really reading the thread (the timestamps clearly indicate that), or reading selectively. IIRC he afks the thread saying I need to do more, and he basically comes back to that. His push on me is at best OMGUS.
wasn't your aggression on me and prp pretty omgus too? pot -> kettle?
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for anyone who didn't realize it; i don't have as hard of a scum read on hts as i am putting on. i was very clear that i wanted a 2nd wagon for vote logic information even if it was a slight amount. i think me exaggerating my read on her to try and create a viable alternative and discussion around it worked just fine. that said i have a slight scum read on hts still.
the FF dropoff is real, the lack of prp follow-up is real. what happened to my d1 town bros?
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since i am probably dying tonight, i will leave a will b4 the end of the phase. but the #1 thing is stop letting anyone who keeps making excuses for their lack of activity get a pass. too many excuses...not enough solving. you can't all be scum.
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On May 06 2015 02:02 ritoky wrote:
wasn't your aggression on me and prp pretty omgus too? pot -> kettle?
I'm assuming here you are talking about my response/rebuttal of why you think I'm scum. There's nothing OMGUS about refuting any argument, and I even said before your logic may be flawed. That's a simple defence - at no point I've even solidly scumread you to begin with, let alone in retaliation.
As for prplhz I was scumreading him well before he voted me, and his subsequent posts/EoD behaviour have only been worse. Even his last point on Stutters is pretty laughable - he's pretty much commenting from the backseat without questioning Superbia - checking his filter he doesn't even have a read on Superbia.
The pot/kettle argument is a moot point here.
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On May 06 2015 01:55 kitaman27 wrote:yep yep
Edited. Cheers, sorry about that again.
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-c-, i don't understand your hts read. why aren't you leaning town on her? she basically has the exact same reads as you.
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On May 06 2015 02:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 02:02 ritoky wrote:
wasn't your aggression on me and prp pretty omgus too? pot -> kettle? I'm assuming here you are talking about my response/rebuttal of why you think I'm scum. There's nothing OMGUS about refuting any argument, and I even said before your logic may be flawed. That's a simple defence - at no point I've even solidly scumread you to begin with, let alone in retaliation. As for prplhz I was scumreading him well before he voted me, and his subsequent posts/EoD behaviour have only been worse. Even his last point on Stutters is pretty laughable - he's pretty much commenting from the backseat without questioning Superbia - checking his filter he doesn't even have a read on Superbia. The pot/kettle argument is a moot point here.
So why aren't you pressing prp. He voted on you, did nothing to follow it up; and now in the subsequent phase is pushing toward stutters with no regard or comment to the wagon on you, why you aren't his top target, and the like. Yet you're in deep on ticktock and superbia. Or do you have the same read I have on prp?
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On May 06 2015 02:17 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 02:13 Half the Sky wrote:On May 06 2015 02:02 ritoky wrote:
wasn't your aggression on me and prp pretty omgus too? pot -> kettle? I'm assuming here you are talking about my response/rebuttal of why you think I'm scum. There's nothing OMGUS about refuting any argument, and I even said before your logic may be flawed. That's a simple defence - at no point I've even solidly scumread you to begin with, let alone in retaliation. As for prplhz I was scumreading him well before he voted me, and his subsequent posts/EoD behaviour have only been worse. Even his last point on Stutters is pretty laughable - he's pretty much commenting from the backseat without questioning Superbia - checking his filter he doesn't even have a read on Superbia. The pot/kettle argument is a moot point here. So why aren't you pressing prp. He voted on you, did nothing to follow it up; and now in the subsequent phase is pushing toward stutters with no regard or comment to the wagon on you, why you aren't his top target, and the like. Yet you're in deep on ticktock and superbia. Or do you have the same read I have on prp?
I think you missed my latest posts on prplhz. He's actually in the LIWF category for me. I'm in the deep on other people because there is more than one scum.
On May 05 2015 07:53 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 07:49 ritoky wrote:
ticktock posted, ignored hts, hts did not push him for ignoring her. looks like i was right to be confident that she wouldn't follow through. When did he post? The last hour when I was in the other game as co-host? Definitely not before that unless I missed that. I literally get back here and Superbia is going all out on the lynch. prplhz looks even worse as he's just posting from the backseat.
On May 05 2015 08:42 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 08:33 -Celestial- wrote:
prplhz is looking really bad in my books. I wasn't planning to filter dive right now but I brought up his filter to just check over the post he made when he voted scott and he has literally a one-page filter. Most of which is just junk and vague sentiments. His vote on HtS feels incredibly throwaway, kinda OMGUS over her read on him. 1000%. He looks a lot worse now at EoD.
Also I differentiated between how you and prplhz were scumreading me. You actually interacted with me and we discussed the logic. prplhz also didn't do that. I know I mentioned that somewhere briefly.
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I'm kinda souring on Rit. Is he always this all over the place?
That question to HtS about prp is really wtf.
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On May 06 2015 02:25 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm kinda souring on Rit. Is he always this all over the place?
That question to HtS about prp is really wtf.
I have yet to play a game with ritoky as town tbh. I've played 2-3 games with him where he was scum, and one where he was third party serial killer.
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On May 06 2015 02:17 ritoky wrote:
So why aren't you pressing prp. He voted on you, did nothing to follow it up; and now in the subsequent phase is pushing toward stutters with no regard or comment to the wagon on you, why you aren't his top target, and the like. Yet you're in deep on ticktock and superbia. Or do you have the same read I have on prp?
Also on that same vein, Superbia pinged out Stutters, and also has had zero discussion on me post-lynch. He pushed my lynch pretty hard near EoD, even more so than prplhz.
Somehow my looking into Superbia (for whatever reason) remains problematic?
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On May 06 2015 02:30 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 02:25 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm kinda souring on Rit. Is he always this all over the place?
That question to HtS about prp is really wtf. I have yet to play a game with ritoky as town tbh. I've played 2-3 games with him where he was scum, and one where he was third party serial killer.
Notice any differences this game?
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On May 06 2015 02:25 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm kinda souring on Rit. Is he always this all over the place?
That question to HtS about prp is really wtf.
your opinion is not very high on my list. and no i haven't been all over the place like this in a very long time. i also haven't rolled VT in over 10 games.
how is it wtf. she is posting giant posts about other people and really pushing them for info. i just don't see the conviction behind her push on prp. like she says lynch him with fire, but i don't get that sense. if someone votes on me EoD then fks off, i become a legit wagon, and he comes back makes 0 comment and moves onto a new target; i would be on him like white on rice. i was expecting more of a response.
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EBWOP to Stutters - I said it earlier, but ritoky plays a very good scumgame, or rather his track record is pretty good as scum. He was SK in Titanic, and there were a lot of logic issues/jumps/misdirection in some of the arguments he was making against people.
I also mentioned it before and I'll mention it again - the argument that "having the same reads as yourself" makes someone town (or not having them makes a person mafia) is really faulty at best, especially early (and we're still early as it's only N1) in the game as D1 reads on aggregate aren't great.
That argument becomes stronger as people flip and the game progresses, but it's a really weak argument. If someone wanted to say "X is scum because he doesn't have the same reads as me" on say, D5, it would carry a lot more weight also because it's harder to fabricate something over 5 cycles, better read progression in theory, etc.
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On May 06 2015 02:43 Half the Sky wrote:
I also mentioned it before and I'll mention it again - the argument that "having the same reads as yourself" makes someone town (or not having them makes a person mafia) is really faulty at best, especially early (and we're still early as it's only N1) in the game as D1 reads on aggregate aren't great.
Disagree with this a lot. But that's pointless procedural talk.
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On May 06 2015 02:37 Stutters695 wrote:
Notice any differences this game?
As anti-town he's scumread me I think nearly every time. I know in Carol there was one instance (he was scum vigilante) he tried to immediately scum me without asking me questions for my lack of town skepticism. I remember that pretty well. He's at least trying to confirm motive here.
As serial killer, the approach may be different because SK is anti-swing. I can't remember how much exact questioning he did in that game of me, but he was quick to judgement in that game. Particularly I recall early on he didn't like my sheeping or something in Titanic and then when I kept refuting his arguments, his reads on me didn't change.
I'd say he's trying to confirm himself more this game before pushing a lynch, which appears townie, but since I've not had a town game with him yet, I'm just trying to avoid meta in evaluating him for the time being.
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On May 06 2015 02:14 ritoky wrote:
-c-, i don't understand your hts read. why aren't you leaning town on her? she basically has the exact same reads as you.
I already mentioned why in my post above. Simply put: I know from personal experience she can make a good job of hiding as scum. A few pages ago Superbia asked for my thoughts on HtS and my conclusion was the following:
Okay, overall...fairly townie BUT seems to be taking quite an easy route of it. She's doing some of her own work rather than just sheeping but most of it is largely uncontroversial. Its typically just a continuation of what other people have said rather than anything hugely bold; although she does bring up a few fresh new points. I'm not really convinced of scum but given how smart I know HtS can be as scum from the last game its always a possibility. The whole thing of not particularly rustling anybody's feathers bothers me just a little. Though that could be simply because she came into the thread late.
Obviously there's been more since then. I WANT to townread her but honestly this game I'm not sure she's ever going to get better than a null from my own inherently suspicious bias. Sure, some of our reads are similar but I don't actually consider that to be outright alignment indicative in and of itself. I'm not perfect (as the egg on my face from pushing the scott lynch so hard can attest to) which means its entirely possible she's simply picked up on reads I've gotten wrong and is going along with it to fit in. Or she might genuinely believe it. Or she might think that I might think that and....
I'm drifting into WIFOM territory here. >_>
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On May 06 2015 02:51 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 02:14 ritoky wrote:
-c-, i don't understand your hts read. why aren't you leaning town on her? she basically has the exact same reads as you. I already mentioned why in my post above. Simply put: I know from personal experience she can make a good job of hiding as scum. A few pages ago Superbia asked for my thoughts on HtS and my conclusion was the following: Show nested quote +Okay, overall...fairly townie BUT seems to be taking quite an easy route of it. She's doing some of her own work rather than just sheeping but most of it is largely uncontroversial. Its typically just a continuation of what other people have said rather than anything hugely bold; although she does bring up a few fresh new points. I'm not really convinced of scum but given how smart I know HtS can be as scum from the last game its always a possibility. The whole thing of not particularly rustling anybody's feathers bothers me just a little. Though that could be simply because she came into the thread late. Obviously there's been more since then. I WANT to townread her but honestly this game I'm not sure she's ever going to get better than a null from my own inherently suspicious bias. Sure, some of our reads are similar but I don't actually consider that to be outright alignment indicative in and of itself. I'm not perfect (as the egg on my face from pushing the scott lynch so hard can attest to) which means its entirely possible she's simply picked up on reads I've gotten wrong and is going along with it to fit in. Or she might genuinely believe it. Or she might think that I might think that and.... I'm drifting into WIFOM territory here. >_>
okay. so you're pretty much confirmed town.
so there's me, -c-, and probably y0su as conf town. although y0su is afk a ton so gotta be wary of me just giving him a pass on 1 thing.
dunno, i am real conflicted on hts. she says townie things but i dislike her tone, she notices things i notice but reacts the wrong way. i guess the heart of it stems from people having town reads on her at this point and i can't comprehend why. at best she is a complex null. i think that from a straight objective standpoint.
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EPT
